2018 Suns Offseason News

[TOO]

I guess we should've used the cap space on do it all F Paul Zipser.

Yeah, because he would have cost $15 million.

You're really reaching...

So your strategy is to spread that 15 million around on MORE players who are, to a man, WORSE AT BASKETBALL? That results in less talent and a roster that is even more crowded!

I really wish we had an And 1 feature here.

[specialsauce]

Bit players like Anthony Tolliver and UDFAs are a total waste of space. They should never be signed

Like Quinn Cook? Luc Richard Mbah a Moute? Gerald Green? Nick Young?

Pretty sure I just saw all of them play meaningful minutes on the two best teams in the league.

I’m going to flat out disagree with Gerald Green and Nick Young. Nothing I hate more than a chucker that offers nothing else.

Mbah a Moute is decent, but he was absolutely horrible in the playoffs and got benched.

Quinn Cook had 10 good games when Curry was hurt.

Again- none of those players other than maybe Mbah a Moute are actually quality players. Can you tell me anyone you would actually spend money on? Because 3:4 l of those players are minimum salary worthy for a reason.

[n4th4n]

Bit players like Anthony Tolliver and UDFAs are a total waste of space. They should never be signed

Like Quinn Cook? Luc Richard Mbah a Moute? Gerald Green? Nick Young?

Pretty sure I just saw all of them play meaningful minutes on the two best teams in the league.

I’m going to flat out disagree with Gerald Green and Nick Young. Nothing I hate more than a chucker that offers nothing else.

Mbah a Moute is decent, but he was absolutely horrible in the playoffs and got benched.

Quinn Cook had 10 good games when Curry was hurt.

Again- none of those players other than maybe Mbah a Moute are actually quality players. Can you tell me anyone you would actually spend money on? Because 3:4 l of those players are minimum salary worthy for a reason.

Signing any of those players with the exception of LRMaM would have been the equivalent of setting our cap space on fire, eating the ashes, then shitting the ashes right down the toilet.

[INFORMER]

If we spent ANY money on Zipser it would've been a waste, he is garbage. You would've applauded that move though because he's one of your guys.

So you're going back to 3 drafts ago, pulling one of many guys liked for the Suns to draft, and now contriving some hypothetical free agency pursuit to use it as a knock against me? Again, you're reaching.

I had no idea who Alan Williams was. But I like his play, and supported his resigning. So that's one example to go against the "my guys" criticism, which really doesn't have merit to begin with, but is a predictable go-to to try to discredit my opinions.

[INFORMER]

Again- none of those players other than maybe Mbah a Moute are actually quality players. Can you tell me anyone you would actually spend money on? Because 3:4 l of those players are minimum salary worthy for a reason.

I'm not saying I would want any of those guys. I was just pointing out they contributed to the best teams in the league. The Rockets love Gerald Green, by the way.

[TOO]

If we spent ANY money on Zipser it would've been a waste, he is garbage. You would've applauded that move though because he's one of your guys.

So you're going back to 3 drafts ago, pulling one of many guys liked for the Suns to draft, and now contriving some hypothetical free agency pursuit to use it as a knock against me? Again, you're reaching.

I had no idea who Alan Williams was. But I like his play, and supported his resigning. So that's one example to go against the "my guys" criticism, which really doesn't have merit to begin with, but is a predictable go-to to try to discredit my opinions.

You can't have right or wrong opinions. I'm not discrediting anything, I think your idea of how this team should be handled isn't any better than what McD has done. Advocating signing a few bottom of the barrel guys over 1 middling guy isn't an upgrade. You always have a complaint, but never a good solution.

[specialsauce]

Some cryptic tweets by Lillard and Booker back-to-back.

Are we trading for Dame time?

[INFORMER]

Advocating signing a few bottom of the barrel guys over 1 middling guy isn't an upgrade. You always have a complaint, but never a good solution.

I don't think you can upgrade the team through this free agency class. VanVleet may be the exception, because he can offer shooting and distribution at the point guard spot, which is something we don't have. And I have spoken in favor of going that route, though that certainly isn't something we have to do.

Other than that, I think bit role guys is the only value in free agency right now. So I'd be all for trying out Tolliver, Nemanja Bjelica, Omri Casspi, bringing in a vet presence like Jarrett Jack.

I think the real upgrade is going to come from Ayton's addition and Josh Jackson;s improvement. The upgrade comes from better coaching from Igor. And from trades, which are still on the table to a certain degree, but probably would have been easier with some cap space.

[TOO]

Some cryptic tweets by Lillard and Booker back-to-back.

Are we trading for Dame time?

Portland can't be that dumb. I mean Olshey is bad, but I can't see that.

[JustWinBaby]

Anthony Tolliver was on the Suns once. He was maybe the worst power forward to ever get significant minutes. Absolutely useless beyond hitting an occasional 3. PASS

That's fine. Just one name I threw out there. And even if we went that direction, we're not talking about a move that absorbs all of our cap space. He made $3.3 million last year for crying out loud.

Dude, to win games you have to have good players. You can’t field a team of “future first round picks.”

Bit players like Anthony Tolliver and UDFAs are a total waste of space. They should never be signed, because if they’re on the court you’re getting killed. That seems to be your entire game plan.

You nailed it Sauce - INFO was the one applauding Presti's move not to sign Harden to the extension and praised all the draft choices he got in return when he traded him to Houston. At least Presti learned his lesson, or was it the owner. They stepped up and signed Paul George.

I have been more critical of McDonough than even INFO. However I really like the signing of Ariza. As I think CAP said while being a very good signing it also keeps us from doing something really stupid and trying to sign Gordon to a max contract.

I say bring Canaan and Harrison to camp and let them fight it out for our back up guard position. Resign Williams to a minimum contract and let's get the season started.

[TOO]

Advocating signing a few bottom of the barrel guys over 1 middling guy isn't an upgrade. You always have a complaint, but never a good solution.

I don't think you can upgrade the team through this free agency class. VanVleet may be the exception, because he can offer shooting and distribution at the point guard spot, which is something we don't have. And I have spoken in favor of going that route, though that certainly isn't something we have to do.

Other than that, I think bit role guys is the only value in free agency right now. So I'd be all for trying out Tolliver, Nemanja Bjelica, Omri Casspi, bringing in a vet presence like Jarrett Jack.

I think the real upgrade is going to come from Ayton's addition and Josh Jackson;s improvement. The upgrade comes from better coaching from Igor. And from trades, which are still on the table to a certain degree, but probably would have been easier with some cap space.

I don't think Ariza was signed with him being an upgrade in mind, he fills a specific role, a mentor who fits where the league is going with wing based basketball. He unlike Dudley can get on the floor and show Jackson/Bridges and to a lesser extent Booker some of the ins and outs of playing defense and getting into the right position on offense. This FA class itself aside from the top 5 or so is not good, I agree with that. I also think signing Ariza shows that the team is willing to spend money on veterans who may think they arent serious about turning it around.

This time they added a guy to show actual talented players how to do things the right way. Dudley is nice, but he's a fat corner 3 shooter. Chandler had to mentor a guy with a low BBIQ and hands of stone. I like the Ariza signing much more than those 2, if only for the fact that its 1 year and not 3-4.

I agree the big push hopefully comes from Kokoskov, Ayton, and Bridges or whatever else we have planned, Ariza is just a drop in the bucket in the long term. I'm not even convinced he lasts the entire year here, he's expiring and will probably be on a playoff teams radar come deadline time.

[INFORMER]

You nailed it Sauce - INFO was the one applauding Presti's move not to sign Harden to the extension and praised all the draft choices he got in return when he traded him to Houston.

I know we like to misrepresent things to support our opinions, but just for accuracy sake:

I like the move because it:

1. Got them a player to help them in the present. Kevin Martin was able to slide in the next season and perform well in the sixth man role.
2. They got a prospect in Jeremy Lamb that had some upside. And to be accurate, this is someone who I tremendously disliked in the draft, but he flashed something in Houston, so as part of the deal, it wasn't a bad inclusion. One of the rare times I could overlook someone not being "one of my guys" to see they had some value. Go figure.
3. The draft pick which was protected to be a lottery pick, IIRC. Turned out to be Steven Adams.

[JustWinBaby]

You nailed it Sauce - INFO was the one applauding Presti's move not to sign Harden to the extension and praised all the draft choices he got in return when he traded him to Houston.

I know we like to misrepresent things to support our opinions, but just for accuracy sake:

I like the move because it:

1. Got them a player to help them in the present. Kevin Martin was able to slide in the next season and perform well in the sixth man role.
2. They got a prospect in Jeremy Lamb that had some upside. And to be accurate, this is someone who I tremendously disliked in the draft, but he flashed something in Houston, so as part of the deal, it wasn't a bad inclusion. One of the rare times I could overlook someone not being "one of my guys" to see they had some value. Go figure.
3. The draft pick which was protected to be a lottery pick, IIRC. Turned out to be Steven Adams.

I know you liked the move and you have justified it many times. You just happen to have been wrong, like we all are most of the time. Presti traded a 1st team all NBA player and possible future first ballot HOF player for a bunch of stuff. You are enamored when GM's get a bunch of stuff. He got lucky on Steven Adams and you know it. Even he is not all that great. He is very good but not great. I do not think that OKC has even made a WCF since the trade and with Harden they made the finals. He also lost Durant. I guess all that stuff Presti acquired did not impress KD so much.

I think that there is a trade to follow this Ariza signing. If not so be it. We should go into next summer with $45 Mil to spend on free agents and to make trades.

I can understand why you are pissed when I look at Dallas. It looks like they are going to end up with Donic and Jordan. I was hoping for that off season for us or replacing Jordan with Capella would have worked as well. We ended up drafting Ayton and another couple of nice pieces. I see Ariza as a nice addition and see no one else that is available that I would like to spend money on.

[SDC]

i will withhold grading mcdo's ariza signing until i see who he gets at PG.

[UglyTruth]

Rolling my eyes at Scott Bordow selling the mentor value of Ariza for Bridges. As if the $23 million in "mentoring" that they're wasting on the Dudley/Chandler combo wasn't enough.

There's a big difference between mentoring from the bench and mentoring on the court.

It's pretty hard to be a mentor as an introvert...

Ariza doesn't speak up much in front of the full group. He prefers to lead by example.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/2359 ... a-playoffs

[Ring_Wanted]

Keeping flexibility with a one year deal is a good strategy but doing so in form of Trevor Ariza specifically is not a sound move unless there is a following roster shake.

If Jackson-Warren-Chriss all remain on the team, we have created an absurd logjam at the wings. Ariza is not suited to play PF and is not the type of player to provide on the mentoring angle (that I feel gets pretty overrated). Just call it by what it is. A temporary patch to alleviate our lack of shooting and defense, which is nice on paper, but this move complicates things unnecessarily (compounded issue, because the move for Bridges was the same to some extent; not to the point of Thomas, though, but that would be hard to achieve).

Still, I think judging this move isolated is not productive, so I'll have to wait to see what happens next although I feel pretty sceptical at the moment.

[SDC]

so i noticed that gambo hasnt shot down the rumors of dragic being traded back to phoenix...

[jonh]

This move really changed my attitude towards McD. In the past, even though I haven’t always agreed with his moves, I was willing to look past them to see the bigger picture, and I thought he was learning through mistakes. But barring a trade for a point guard today, i think he should be fired today.

I see this as a completely ridiculous move, and is so in line with the way McD mismanages the roster. He creates logjams by bringing in redundant players (bled/Dragic/Thomas, Chriss/Bender, Bridges/Ariza), and doesn’t consider how that will (a) frustrate the current players that are already playing the position (b) simultaneously drop the trade value for the other players playing the same position, and (c) hurts the team because he ignores/fails to address the biggest team need.

He literally just re-created the exact same problem that we have dealt with the past few years at the point guard position—the problem that lead to multiple players complaining about broken promises and lies from management on the way out. There is a great chance there will be more names added to the list of past players demanding to leave the Suns, because they are not getting playing time on a horrible team (and we will definitely not be a good team if we still haven’t addressed the most pressing need on the team (pg).

McD simply doesn’t understand the concept of roster construction. I’d love to move on from him.

[UglyTruth]

He shot 36% from 3 despite having Harden and CP3 creating looks for him...I don't know if he will get anywhere close to those types of open looks in Phoenix.

[UglyTruth]

This move really changed my attitude towards McD. In the past, even though I haven’t always agreed with his moves, I was willing to look past them to see the bigger picture, and I thought he was learning through mistakes. But barring a trade for a point guard today, i think he should be fired today.

I see this as a completely ridiculous move, and is so in line with the way McD mismanages the roster. He creates logjams by bringing in redundant players (bled/Dragic/Thomas, Chriss/Bender, Bridges/Ariza), and doesn’t consider how that will (a) frustrate the current players that are already playing the position (b) simultaneously drop the trade value for the other players playing the same position, and (c) hursts the team because he fails to address the biggest team need.

He literally just re-created the exact same problem that we have dealt with the past few years at the point guard position—the problem that lead to multiple players complaining about broken promises and Lyon management on the way out. There is a great chance there will be more names added to the list of past players demanding to leave the Suns, because they are not getting playing time on a horrible team (and we will definitely not be a good team if we still haven’t addressed the most pressing need on the team (pg).

McD simply doesn’t understand the concept of roster construction. I’d love to move on from him.

McD averages 1 disgruntled player per season.