Game Day: Jazz (37-29) @ Suns (16-52), Wed 3/13/19

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Indy
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Re: Game Day: Jazz (37-29) @ Suns (16-52), Wed 3/13/19

Post by Indy » Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:40 am

specialsauce wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:57 am
Indy wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:43 am
In2ition wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:23 am
Indy wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:06 am
In2ition wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:45 am
We know that the Suns death lineup has been Johnson, Booker, Bridges, Oubre and Ayton, but I just didn't see this in the 4th when I was waiting for it.
They did play that lineup last night, about halfway through the 4th. Ayton was the last one to join the other 4 after a 2-3 minute breather since he started the 4th, too. But they started down 11, and 3 and half minutes later were down 20. I think part of the problem is Igor played Bridges and Jackson way too much. I don't think Bridges is ready to play 18 straight in-game minutes to finish it out. And Jackson needs to be pulled quickly when he plays like he did in the 3rd/4th.
Thanks, I must have left to put my son to bed at that point. I thought that his substitutions were a little off there and you reinforced that view.
I actually haven't watched the game yet (these damn >10pm starts kill me when I am up at 5). But I went through the game log and the on/off charts from bbref.
With 5 minutes left in the third, coach took out both Ayton and Booker. Made no sense to me.
Booker sat for 1:20, then played the last 3:55 of the 3rd (and was a +5 during that stretch). He had played the entire quarter up to that point.

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Shabazz
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Re: Game Day: Jazz (37-29) @ Suns (16-52), Wed 3/13/19

Post by Shabazz » Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:26 pm

In2ition wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:45 am
So the story this morning is that Ayton was his biggest critic from last night. From my perspective, it feels like Utah and Portland are the toughest matchups in the NBA for the Suns. They also give a glimpse into how big of a jump this team can take by as early as next year if they get lucky and make wise choices this off-season.

Even though the Suns ended up getting blown out, it was essentially a tied game after 3 quarters. Igor has been doing a decent job improving over the season, but this sort of felt that he took a step back and/or tanked this game with his moves in the 4th. I thought he could have used Melton in the game, and not sure why Crawford keeps getting minutes(not that he was terrible). He also didn't utilize a timeout, when the Jazz started to pull away, to stem the tide and get his guys focused back on what they needed to stop or how to execute against their defense. He also waited until the game was a double digit lead for the Jazz to bring back in Booker. We know that the Suns death lineup has been Johnson, Booker, Bridges, Oubre and Ayton, but I just didn't see this in the 4th when I was waiting for it. He also let Jackson stay in the game way too long when he was ineffective.

This team really needs another dominate scorer to help Booker, a better option at pg(even though I've been splendidly surprised with Johnson, I just see him as a great backup pg), and the right fit at pf to pair with, compliment and fill the holes that Ayton has. I do really believe that Ayton will be a much better player next year with the growth in the weight room and skill work that the staff will give him. He has some obviously identifiable weaknesses or skills he needs to work on, including driving to the basket, learning how to go into the opposing big, improving his quick jump, one footed jumping and second jump, become better at catching the ball with one hand high and low(worried his only slightly better than Len was at catching the ball), his range on his shot, and getting stronger to compete with the bigs around the league. All these things can be improved greatly by next year and that will make him tremendously valuable going forward.
If I could change one thing about Ayton right now, it would be his inability to draw fouls. It's alarmingly bad.
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Re: Game Day: Jazz (37-29) @ Suns (16-52), Wed 3/13/19

Post by ShelC » Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:28 pm

He's not a face-up big and we won't post him up. He gets about 11 shots a game. How should he draw fouls?

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Re: Game Day: Jazz (37-29) @ Suns (16-52), Wed 3/13/19

Post by Shabazz » Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:09 pm

ShelC wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:28 pm
He's not a face-up big and we won't post him up. He gets about 11 shots a game. How should he draw fouls?
You're making excuses for him. I don't think Igor has told him he's not allowed to dribble. Is he not allowed to pump-fake, too? He takes a ton of shots near the basket. his free throw rate is historically bad for a center with his usage and I wouldn't be surprised if it's also historically bad for someone who takes that many shots in the paint. He's got a lower FTR than Trevor Ariza.

Drawing fouls is a skill. If he had it in his tool-belt he would be using it.
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Re: Game Day: Jazz (37-29) @ Suns (16-52), Wed 3/13/19

Post by Shabazz » Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:12 pm

Also, we do post him up, but he's not good at gaining ground towards the basket, even against smaller players. He mostly relies on his turnaround jumper and short-hooks. I never see any drop-steps or up-and-unders. Amare was the same way, but he would turn and face and then attack off the dribble. Ayton doesn't have that (yet).
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Re: Game Day: Jazz (37-29) @ Suns (16-52), Wed 3/13/19

Post by In2ition » Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:31 pm

Shabazz wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:26 pm
In2ition wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:45 am
So the story this morning is that Ayton was his biggest critic from last night. From my perspective, it feels like Utah and Portland are the toughest matchups in the NBA for the Suns. They also give a glimpse into how big of a jump this team can take by as early as next year if they get lucky and make wise choices this off-season.

Even though the Suns ended up getting blown out, it was essentially a tied game after 3 quarters. Igor has been doing a decent job improving over the season, but this sort of felt that he took a step back and/or tanked this game with his moves in the 4th. I thought he could have used Melton in the game, and not sure why Crawford keeps getting minutes(not that he was terrible). He also didn't utilize a timeout, when the Jazz started to pull away, to stem the tide and get his guys focused back on what they needed to stop or how to execute against their defense. He also waited until the game was a double digit lead for the Jazz to bring back in Booker. We know that the Suns death lineup has been Johnson, Booker, Bridges, Oubre and Ayton, but I just didn't see this in the 4th when I was waiting for it. He also let Jackson stay in the game way too long when he was ineffective.

This team really needs another dominate scorer to help Booker, a better option at pg(even though I've been splendidly surprised with Johnson, I just see him as a great backup pg), and the right fit at pf to pair with, compliment and fill the holes that Ayton has. I do really believe that Ayton will be a much better player next year with the growth in the weight room and skill work that the staff will give him. He has some obviously identifiable weaknesses or skills he needs to work on, including driving to the basket, learning how to go into the opposing big, improving his quick jump, one footed jumping and second jump, become better at catching the ball with one hand high and low(worried his only slightly better than Len was at catching the ball), his range on his shot, and getting stronger to compete with the bigs around the league. All these things can be improved greatly by next year and that will make him tremendously valuable going forward.
If I could change one thing about Ayton right now, it would be his inability to draw fouls. It's alarmingly bad.
Agreed. That was what I was getting to and the first thing I mentioned on my list.
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Re: Game Day: Jazz (37-29) @ Suns (16-52), Wed 3/13/19

Post by Superbone » Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:09 pm

Shabazz wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:09 pm
ShelC wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:28 pm
He's not a face-up big and we won't post him up. He gets about 11 shots a game. How should he draw fouls?
You're making excuses for him. I don't think Igor has told him he's not allowed to dribble. Is he not allowed to pump-fake, too? He takes a ton of shots near the basket. his free throw rate is historically bad for a center with his usage and I wouldn't be surprised if it's also historically bad for someone who takes that many shots in the paint. He's got a lower FTR than Trevor Ariza.

Drawing fouls is a skill. If he had it in his tool-belt he would be using it.
He avoids contact. He needs to embrace it. That will make him unstoppable.
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Re: Game Day: Jazz (37-29) @ Suns (16-52), Wed 3/13/19

Post by In2ition » Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:20 pm

Superbone wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:09 pm
Shabazz wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:09 pm
ShelC wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:28 pm
He's not a face-up big and we won't post him up. He gets about 11 shots a game. How should he draw fouls?
You're making excuses for him. I don't think Igor has told him he's not allowed to dribble. Is he not allowed to pump-fake, too? He takes a ton of shots near the basket. his free throw rate is historically bad for a center with his usage and I wouldn't be surprised if it's also historically bad for someone who takes that many shots in the paint. He's got a lower FTR than Trevor Ariza.

Drawing fouls is a skill. If he had it in his tool-belt he would be using it.
He avoids contact. He needs to embrace it. That will make him unstoppable.
Agreed. I would have said that he avoids contact on people he thinks are bigger and stronger than him, but he's also shown to avoid contact with players that are clearly smaller and weaker than him too. He created the hash tag #BullySzn, but he's far from a bully and avoids to punish smaller players that guard him. It's going to have to be a mindset change this off-season, and I sure hope that his coaches are creative enough to figure out how to pull that out of him.
"Our Suns are DEAD!!!"

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Re: Game Day: Jazz (37-29) @ Suns (16-52), Wed 3/13/19

Post by Nodack » Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:57 pm

He seems to play more aggressive when he’s mad like Booker. They need to find a way to push his buttons and make him mad somehow.

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ShelC
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Re: Game Day: Jazz (37-29) @ Suns (16-52), Wed 3/13/19

Post by ShelC » Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:40 pm

Shabazz wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:09 pm
ShelC wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:28 pm
He's not a face-up big and we won't post him up. He gets about 11 shots a game. How should he draw fouls?
You're making excuses for him. I don't think Igor has told him he's not allowed to dribble. Is he not allowed to pump-fake, too? He takes a ton of shots near the basket. his free throw rate is historically bad for a center with his usage and I wouldn't be surprised if it's also historically bad for someone who takes that many shots in the paint. He's got a lower FTR than Trevor Ariza.

Drawing fouls is a skill. If he had it in his tool-belt he would be using it.
I'm trying to give a 20 yr old rook the benefit of the doubt. I'm not saying he can't get better and more advanced around the basket, but I also don't think he's had a ton of opportunities in general.

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