Around the League: October

[carey]

The Suns' medical staff is absurdly overrated.

Do you really think theyre doing something different than the other 29 teams?

Yes. they absolutely are. They are at the forefront of innovation for players because their main focus is injury prevention. If a player comes to us injured or has a legitimate freak injury while they are here then they probably do seem "ordinary." I know it gets annoying to hear that the Suns training staff are miracle workers, because they aren't quite that. What they are are innovators and outside the box thinkers. I could go get all the articles quoting players on how they never experienced care like they did here before. Or the ones from other team's staff saying they wish they had the resources and staff like Phoenix does (the Portland one in particular was eye opening.) I, for one, am very grateful to have an impressive training and medical staff.

[The Bobster]

I think they have the best medical staff in the league but the other teams in the league are catching up (after all, it's a league of copy cats).

That said, there are some things stretching and diet aren't going to fix, like Michael Redd and Amar'e Stoudemire's knees. A player like Kevin Johnson could have benefited from their treatment however because the majority of his injuries were more along the line of strained muscles.

No trainer can fix a knee that is bone-on-bone, but they can get you as prepared physically as you can be to prevent many of the nagging injuries.

[BigLewy]

There definitely is something that makes the training staff stand out. Just look at some of the guys who were healthy here and then left. Shaq, Grant Hill, Nash, Amare just to name a few. They leave Phoenix and almost immediately break down.

[jkalldaway]

Wow, about Channing Frye's injury. It's like the instant players get away from our team and medical staff, they break down. Hope the guy is able to play at some point this year.

The Suns' medical staff is absurdly overrated.

Do you really think theyre doing something different than the other 29 teams?

More like Steve Nash and Grant Hill had great careers here because they both had exceptional diets. Shaq had a bounce back due to his desire to prove he still had something left.

But lets get real. Theres also a plethera of players who came here who didnt have some sort of miraculous return to their prime. Vince Carter, Michael Redd, Brian Grant, Jalen Rose etc.

Absolutely absurd statement.

[Indy]

Wow, about Channing Frye's injury. It's like the instant players get away from our team and medical staff, they break down. Hope the guy is able to play at some point this year.

The Suns' medical staff is absurdly overrated.

Do you really think theyre doing something different than the other 29 teams?

More like Steve Nash and Grant Hill had great careers here because they both had exceptional diets. Shaq had a bounce back due to his desire to prove he still had something left.

But lets get real. Theres also a plethera of players who came here who didnt have some sort of miraculous return to their prime. Vince Carter, Michael Redd, Brian Grant, Jalen Rose etc.

Absolutely abaurd statement.

Word

[Indy]

I think they have the best medical staff in the league but the other teams in the league are catching up (after all, it's a league of copy cats).

That said, there are some things stretching and diet aren't going to fix, like Michael Redd and Amar'e Stoudemire's knees. A player like Kevin Johnson could have benefited from their treatment however because the majority of his injuries were more along the line of strained muscles.

No trainer can fix a knee that is bone-on-bone, but they can get you as prepared physically as you can be to prevent many of the nagging injuries.

From what I read after the fact, KJ had an undiagnosed hernia for the better part of 3 years. Just having a decent medical staff (not just strength and conditioning staff) would have done wonders. I think I also read it is believed to have occurred during that celebration with Oliver Miller and Barkley. I think it was the one where Westy called the play to have Miller throw the inbound off the glass and have Chuck rebound and place it in. It worked, despite a bad off the backboard pass from Miller.

[Cap]

I think it was the one where Westy called the play to have Miller throw the inbound off the glass and have Chuck rebound and place it in. It worked, despite a bad off the backboard pass from Miller.

IIRC, the play was called for Ceballos. Ceballos was not able to get to the errant pass, but got to it and hit the game winner. There was some controversy over whether Ceballos's finger touched the ball (which would have started the clock and not allowed for Barkley's shot). Replays were inconclusive.

[Indy]

That sounds right. Either way I stand by the part that it was a bad pass by miller.

[da_suns_fan]

There definitely is something that makes the training staff stand out. Just look at some of the guys who were healthy here and then left. Shaq, Grant Hill, Nash, Amare just to name a few. They leave Phoenix and almost immediately break down.

Stats in a vacuum. Singular Cause.

I learned a lot in a graduate level Design of experiments course on 2^k Factorial experiments with blocking of factors. Mainly that trying to deduce any type of conclusion when theres no randomness is nothing but "statistical noise"

The fact that Hill, Shaq and Nash broke down after leaving Phoenix is statistical noise. All three left Phoenix as they were approaching 40. All three players were let go by choice. There was no randomness in which players were selected or where they went to.

In order to adequately determine if the Phoenix Suns' medical staff is "better" than other teams, you would have to randomly select players throughout the league, put them on the Suns, put them on the Suns in different cities (block for city), put them with different coaches (block for playing style) etc etc etc,

If you REALLY believe the Suns' training staff is the best, I have a site for you. Its called Spurious correlations.

http://www.tylervigen.com/

Did you know that the number of Nicholas Cage movies released in a year directly correlates with the number of swimming pool drownings (seriously).

Or the number of divorces in Maine directly correlates to the per capita consumption of margarine?

Nate Silver's "The signal and the noise" points out how pundits (political, sports etc) like to data mine to try to prove their point when they really have no idea what theyre talking about.

Likewise NPR's "This american life" pointed out how were becoming a nation of "Modern Jackasses". Thats when someone has a TINY bit of information and then uses it to try and talk like an expert.

None of us have PHD's in sports medicine or the data as to what methods the Suns' are using vs other teams. I remember specifically that Shaq was saying how the Suns training staff "just touches you" and a defensive Miami staff said "we did the same thing".

So yeah, I think the conclusion that the Suns' medical staff is extraordinary is off-base.

[da_suns_fan]

I think it was the one where Westy called the play to have Miller throw the inbound off the glass and have Chuck rebound and place it in. It worked, despite a bad off the backboard pass from Miller.

IIRC, the play was called for Ceballos. Ceballos was not able to get to the errant pass, but got to it and hit the game winner. There was some controversy over whether Ceballos's finger touched the ball (which would have started the clock and not allowed for Barkley's shot). Replays were inconclusive.

This is correct. Whats funny is Barkley's reaction after his shot compared to player's today. Barkley runs to the bench with his arms out and a giant smile, picks up Frank Johnson etc.

I saw Kobe "bank" a shot to win a game a couple years back. His teammates tried to hug him but he just stood there with his arm straight in there nodding at the crowd as if he "meant" to do that.

[Superbone]

I'm not sure what your angle is DSF but it's pretty much a known fact that the Suns have one of best training staffs in all of sports. Stats or no stats. It's not a science experiment though. There's no unequivocal statistical proof.

[Shabazz]

Not random noise:

67, 67, 67, 73, 59, 40, 61, 61. <-Games per season Shaq played prior to his being traded here (includes the season he was dealt here)

75 <- Games Shaq played in his lone full season with the Suns. Several of his missed games that year were scheduled days off.

And yes, he left Phoenix and immediately played 53 and 37 games the next two seasons at diminished effectiveness. That has a lot to do with his being 37 and 38 years old, but that's only 1 and 2 years older than 36, the age he played 75 games and made the all star team. Shaq himself gives the training staff a lot of credit for his health and success that year.

[Shabazz]

https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/status/519014184432848897

Markieff at $8M per looks pretty good compared to this deal.

[INFORMER]

You really think so?!

[Mori Chu]

I don't really know how much Faried should be paid. He was great in international ball, and he has a ton of energy, but he will never be a leader or best guy on a team, nor will be dominate offensively. I am not saying he got overpaid, just that it is really hard for me to know what a guy with his skills is worth. Maybe that's partly because he is so unique, there are not many players to compare him with.

[SwingMan]

Faried got overpaid - love his game, but he got overpaid, for sure.

[ShelC]

Yea he's not worth 12mil.

[carey]

https://twitter.com/mr_jasonjones/status/518952759303737344

At least he's honest?

[carey]

Faried is probably overpaid. I think of him as a Shawn Marion type, and iirc he used to take up about 20-25% of our cap room. So maybe Faried is getting paid FMV here. However, Faried didn't even play 30 minutes a game last year (27) and his averages for the season were only about 14 & 8. Marion was always good for like 20 & 10, but by his 3rd season he was already playing nearly 40 minutes a night.

[jkalldaway]

DSF is just trying to make a splashy statement. Nothing to see here.