Around the League News - 2022 Offseason Edition

[Superbone]

A bigger question for me is how the FO/coaching staff views the center position. Jones didn't win in Miami or Cleveland with a dominant center (granted he had LeBron, Kyrie, Wade, Bosh, etc) so maybe he doesn't put much of a premium on a top level big. Or maybe he sees the way the league has been trending and doesn't think a classic low post big is absolutely necessary to success.

In that case, does Jones and/or Monty think they can downgrade a bit from DA or simply platoon with a few different bigs (JaVale, Biz, Saric, etc) and get more talented at other positions like PF or bench roles?

I am hoping Miami wins the championship, then maybe Jones will want to build the team in the mold of Miami, with a max contract center whose aggressiveness and worth is questioned.

lol


Serious question: Were you a basketball fan before Ayton? Were you a Suns fan before him? You joined this site 2 days before he as drafted. Just curious because I haven't seen someone stan a play as much unless the player was like the only good player on a shitty team, or like a top 5 player in the league. I want to know where you deep love for him comes from.

Whoa.

[JeremyG]

A bigger question for me is how the FO/coaching staff views the center position. Jones didn't win in Miami or Cleveland with a dominant center (granted he had LeBron, Kyrie, Wade, Bosh, etc) so maybe he doesn't put much of a premium on a top level big. Or maybe he sees the way the league has been trending and doesn't think a classic low post big is absolutely necessary to success.

In that case, does Jones and/or Monty think they can downgrade a bit from DA or simply platoon with a few different bigs (JaVale, Biz, Saric, etc) and get more talented at other positions like PF or bench roles?

I am hoping Miami wins the championship, then maybe Jones will want to build the team in the mold of Miami, with a max contract center whose aggressiveness and worth is questioned.

lol


Serious question: Were you a basketball fan before Ayton? Were you a Suns fan before him? You joined this site 2 days before he as drafted. Just curious because I haven't seen someone stan a play as much unless the player was like the only good player on a shitty team, or like a top 5 player in the league. I want to know where you deep love for him comes from.

viewtopic.php?p=214842#p214842

viewtopic.php?p=220997#p220997

[Superbone]

A bigger question for me is how the FO/coaching staff views the center position. Jones didn't win in Miami or Cleveland with a dominant center (granted he had LeBron, Kyrie, Wade, Bosh, etc) so maybe he doesn't put much of a premium on a top level big. Or maybe he sees the way the league has been trending and doesn't think a classic low post big is absolutely necessary to success.

In that case, does Jones and/or Monty think they can downgrade a bit from DA or simply platoon with a few different bigs (JaVale, Biz, Saric, etc) and get more talented at other positions like PF or bench roles?

I am hoping Miami wins the championship, then maybe Jones will want to build the team in the mold of Miami, with a max contract center whose aggressiveness and worth is questioned.

lol


Serious question: Were you a basketball fan before Ayton? Were you a Suns fan before him? You joined this site 2 days before he as drafted. Just curious because I haven't seen someone stan a play as much unless the player was like the only good player on a shitty team, or like a top 5 player in the league. I want to know where you deep love for him comes from.

viewtopic.php?p=214842#p214842

viewtopic.php?p=220997#p220997

Nice! That answers that.

[Indy]

Thanks for sharing, Jer. So what was it about Ayton in college that got your so excited to talk about Suns basketball again?

[JeremyG]

Thanks for sharing, Jer. So what was it about Ayton in college that got your so excited to talk about Suns basketball again?

Just the fact that he was a true 7-foot center, physically gifted, athletic, with unlimited potential. A big part of it is that we had gone 50 years without a real center (or a #1 pick for that matter). (And it would be just like the Suns to discard their only #1 pick and only center four years later.) Myself, and a lot of other Suns fans, had always dreamed of getting a star center.

A lot of what looks like "stanning" is simply because of the inordinate amount of criticism he gets among the Suns' fandom.

I hadn't posted on this forum until 2018, but I've been discussing Suns basketball online for a very long time (the old AZCentral boards in 1999 [Backcourt 2000, unmoderated Cubby days ], SpursTalk forum since 2006, etc.).

[JeremyG]

The warriors just made it to the finals with Kevon Looney

Yes, but besides the Warriors, the last 4 Eastern Conference champions (Celtics, Bucks, Heat, and Raptors) all had significant big men, as did the Suns and Lakers in the West the last two years.

[Mori Chu]

Does JeremyG have an ... Aytonrection???

[Indy]

The warriors just made it to the finals with Kevon Looney

Yes, but besides the Warriors, the last 4 Eastern Conference champions (Celtics, Bucks, Heat, and Raptors) all had significant big men, as did the Suns and Lakers in the West the last two years.

Brook Lopez or Bobby Portis? Because those are the guys that play center for them, and it isn't like the Bucks took those guys out much. One of them played just as much as Giannis.

For Miami, Bam played less than 23 mpg.

For Toronto, Gasol was 34 and playing like 38.

[Indy]

Thanks for sharing, Jer. So what was it about Ayton in college that got your so excited to talk about Suns basketball again?

Just the fact that he was a true 7-foot center, physically gifted, athletic, with unlimited potential. A big part of it is that we had gone 50 years without a real center (or a #1 pick for that matter). (And it would be just like the Suns to discard their only #1 pick and only center four years later.) Myself, and a lot of other Suns fans, had always dreamed of getting a star center.

A lot of what looks like "stanning" is simply because of the inordinate amount of criticism he gets among the Suns' fandom.

I hadn't posted on this forum until 2018, but I've been discussing Suns basketball online for a very long time (the old AZCentral boards in 1999 [Backcourt 2000, unmoderated Cubby days ], SpursTalk forum since 2006, etc.).

Thanks again for sharing all of this. It all makes sense.

For the bolded part--I think a huge part of that is him not living up to his potential or even showing his desire to do so.

[Split T]

I think it comes down to some of us have given up on him reaching his potential and others haven’t. He has massive potential and that kinda explains the big divide.

[Indy]

Yeah I guess I just haven't seen enough of him using his gifts to dominate. He has them at his disposal, and he just doesn't use them to dominate.

[Split T]

Right, that’s where I’m at…it’s just some people still have faith that that will come in time.

[Indy]

Right, that’s where I’m at…it’s just some people still have faith that that will come in time.

Yeah, maybe after he reaches the ultimate goal of his NBA career.

[Superbone]

Yeah I guess I just haven't seen enough of him using his gifts to dominate. He has them at his disposal, and he just doesn't use them to dominate.

At least he seems to have backed off from the dominAyton talk and text. I don't think he knows the meaning of the real word.

[Superbone]

Right, that’s where I’m at…it’s just some people still have faith that that will come in time.

Yeah, maybe after he reaches the ultimate goal of his NBA career.

His next contract?

[Flagrant Fowl]

I think it comes down to some of us have given up on him reaching his potential and others haven’t. He has massive potential and that kinda explains the big divide.

Yeah I guess I just haven't seen enough of him using his gifts to dominate. He has them at his disposal, and he just doesn't use them to dominate.

Yes, and yes.

I have no evidence of this because I'm obviously not in their training facility, but I think it just come down to Jones/Monty not believing Ayton has put in the right amount of work to justify the contract he wants. It's not about Ayton's touches during the game as much as it is how much Monty and his teammates trust giving him the ball. If they're not seeing the work during the offseason or in practice, then why take the risk during the game?

[JeremyG]

I think it comes down to some of us have given up on him reaching his potential and others haven’t. He has massive potential and that kinda explains the big divide.

Yeah I guess I just haven't seen enough of him using his gifts to dominate. He has them at his disposal, and he just doesn't use them to dominate.

Yes, and yes.

I have no evidence of this because I'm obviously not in their training facility, but I think it just come down to Jones/Monty not believing Ayton has put in the right amount of work to justify the contract he wants. It's not about Ayton's touches during the game as much as it is how much Monty and his teammates trust giving him the ball. If they're not seeing the work during the offseason or in practice, then why take the risk during the game?

The risk of what? Proven high efficiency scoring ability? The fact that they have a way better record the more field goal attempts he gets?

[JeremyG]

I think it comes down to some of us have given up on him reaching his potential and others haven’t. He has massive potential and that kinda explains the big divide.

If by "reaching his potential" you mean being as aggressive as everyone would like, that may not happen. You can't necessarily teach aggression. But he will certainly continue to grow offensively. He can be a dominant force on offense without tearing down the rim, or even getting to the line a ton.

But just from what he has already shown, I think he deserves a max contract. And since that is obviously going to be his fair market value (at least the RFA max), then that is what the Suns need to give him. Why would they want to lose their homegrown future All-Star?

[JeremyG]

The warriors just made it to the finals with Kevon Looney

Yes, but besides the Warriors, the last 4 Eastern Conference champions (Celtics, Bucks, Heat, and Raptors) all had significant big men, as did the Suns and Lakers in the West the last two years.

Brook Lopez or Bobby Portis? Because those are the guys that play center for them, and it isn't like the Bucks took those guys out much. One of them played just as much as Giannis.

For Miami, Bam played less than 23 mpg.

For Toronto, Gasol was 34 and playing like 38.

Giannis is a big, whether he's playing PF or C. And Lopez and Portis played well for them (especially in the ECF to get them to the Finals).

Bam averaged 18 and 10 in 36.2 mpg in the 2020 playoffs (including 39.1 mpg in the ECF).

Gasol may have been older but he still played almost 31 mpg for them in the playoffs.

[rhylek]

I don't think DA will ever be Amare 2.0
But Olajuwon 2.0? That's not out of reach.

Funny thing about Hakeem: he was nearly traded during a bitter contract dispute before the 1992–93 season.