Suns News: Week 11 1/5-1/11

[SDC]

suspend him!

[INFORMER]

The Suns are at a point where they have to be more disciplined and calculating about who they retain.

The Suns have a roster full of good and solid players. But it just doesn't feel like they are building a roster with the thought process of:

1. What does it take to contend?
2. What talent is readily available in the league?
3. What skill sets are premium?

I'm sure some will argue that they are doing that, or that they have been doing that, but I just don't see it. That just seem to be too easily impressed. A player plays nice and they seem to be ready to commit valuable resources to him without asking "how far are we going to get with this guy?"

Or maybe they are asking themselves that, and when the answer is "a playoff spot" then they're content.

[Indy]

Or maybe they are asking themselves that, and when the answer is "a playoff spot" then they're content.

I think with a team like Phoenix, the real first questions is, how do we maintain and grow our season ticket holder base. That is what makes a successful business. If you have that, you can then focus on getting a ring.

Places like NY and LA never have to worry about that, so they can focus on the rings, and that may mean taking huge gambles that might never pay off and leave you in misery for a long time (NY).

But I get your point. If you were GM, how do you maintain and grow the current base, while competing for a ring right now?

[OE32]

I think our FO views the West as a test of durability. How long can the other contenders keep their squads together? We're young, with long, reasonable contracts for talented players. Other teams are older, with key pieces who are either on expensive deals or whose contracts are nearer to expiration. Our biggest issue right now is retaining Dragic, and Green after that.

I do think the general plan is to have valuable pieces ready to be shipped out when the opportunity presents itself. I'm neither for or against such a strategy.

My biggest qualm with the way the roster has been put together is that we don't seem to care about whether our young players get time. We're simply collecting assets, which puts our interests and those of some of our players at odds. I don't know if this ultimately will work.

I also see the Suns as being in a bit of a conundrum. We want to improve, but the players who have become available to us (Thomas) don't give us what we need. It's not like Cousins or Paul George are on the market. If they become so, we've put ourselves in a position to get them. To sum, I don't know if it's a good plan or a bad plan - I've loved whom they've drafted, though I haven't loved how we've neglected our picks - but I'm also not sure we've been in a position to do better. Not everything's in our control.

I ******* hate that TJ never plays. OTOH, he's looked so listless every minute I've seen him. Night and day from what I saw in Summer League. Very, very, very disappointing.

[INFORMER]

Places like NY and LA never have to worry about that, so they can focus on the rings, and that may mean taking huge gambles that might never pay off and leave you in misery for a long time (NY)

There is some truth in that, but what has happened in NY has been directly related to being NY. The franchise has been held hostage by the ill informed notion that "you can't rebuild in NY." And it has led to some truly abysmal stretches of basketball, the years prior to the Amare signing, and not these last 2-3 seasons with Melo. So in theory you would think they have an advantage over Phoenix, and they probably do in a general sense, but they've been a worse franchise than the Suns for more than a decade.

I think with a team like Phoenix, the real first questions is, how do we maintain and grow our season ticket holder base. That is what makes a successful business. If you have that, you can then focus on getting a ring.

You make a good business point, the problem is, that doesn't necessarily equate to success on the court, and here's why. To build a contender, you usually have to start from the ground up. You can't just build a team to make the playoffs, and then start thinking about how to turn it into a contender. That's what the Denver Nuggets tried to do, and that's the main reason they're in no man's land now.

If you were GM, how do you maintain and grow the current base, while competing for a ring right now?

I think you have to blow it up to a certain extent, but that's not going to happen. So it's too late. The Suns are too good for Ryan and Blabby to have the nerve to change course, but they have a firmly placed ceiling that will keep them from becoming a contender.

There may be an out if they find a place for Warren on the team and he excels, and if Len stays healthy and continues on the track of being a home run draft pick, and if the cap rises as projected but the CBA structure remains nominally unchanged, and an impact frontcourt player chooses to sign with the Suns. If those 3 "ifs" pan out, then we could have a true contender on our hands.

[Indy]

Places like NY and LA never have to worry about that, so they can focus on the rings, and that may mean taking huge gambles that might never pay off and leave you in misery for a long time (NY)

There is some truth in that, but what has happened in NY has been directly related to being NY. The franchise has been held hostage by the ill informed notion that "you can't rebuild in NY." And it has led to some truly abysmal stretches of basketball, the years prior to the Amare signing, and not these last 2-3 seasons with Melo. So in theory you would think they have an advantage over Phoenix, and they probably do in a general sense, but they've been a worse franchise than the Suns for more than a decade.

I think with a team like Phoenix, the real first questions is, how do we maintain and grow our season ticket holder base. That is what makes a successful business. If you have that, you can then focus on getting a ring.

You make a good business point, the problem is, that doesn't necessarily equate to success on the court, and here's why. To build a contender, you usually have to start from the ground up. You can't just build a team to make the playoffs, and then start thinking about how to turn it into a contender. That's what the Denver Nuggets tried to do, and that's the main reason they're in no man's land now.

If you were GM, how do you maintain and grow the current base, while competing for a ring right now?

I think you have to blow it up to a certain extent, but that's not going to happen. So it's too late. The Suns are too good for Ryan and Blabby to have the nerve to change course, but they have a firmly placed ceiling that will keep them from becoming a contender.

There may be an out if they find a place for Warren on the team and he excels, and if Len stays healthy and continues on the track of being a home run draft pick, and if the cap rises as projected but the CBA structure remains nominally unchanged, and an impact frontcourt player chooses to sign with the Suns. If those 3 "ifs" pan out, then we could have a true contender on our hands.

I never said it was the best way to build a championship team. I was just saying that first and foremost you have to have a successful business, and not having guaranteed sellouts every game (even if not everyone shows up in the stands) allows you to take chances other teams won't make.

And blowing it up is a very risky business, when you already struggle to get paying customers.

[Indy]

I do think the general plan is to have valuable pieces ready to be shipped out when the opportunity presents itself. I'm neither for or against such a strategy.

Agreed.

[Ring_Wanted]

The main reason Denver is in no man's land currently is not the model of building they chose. It's been injuries, Iguodala bolting and a change of coach that went bad. And more injuries. The result of those hits to their 57 wins team is what is in purgatory.

Also, didn't the Suns blow it up the year they got the #5 pick and the summer that followed? Cancers were cut, new coaching staff, veterans moved for future assets. The thing is that it has not taken a lustrum to assemble a young team with winning capabilities. The future is unknown, but I don't feel robbed of anything in the 2014 draft.

[Mori Chu]

I get INF's point about not locking into mediocrity, not overcommitting to guys who aren't worth it. But I want to make a case that maybe we're all right and maybe we aren't doing that.

I don't think this team has looked like a contender so far this season. BUT:

- The team has improved *noticeably* since the start of the season
- Hornacek has figured out a lot better ways to use the players and what lineups are most effective, as well as just continuing to grow as a coach
- The players are starting to understand and accept their roles better
- Len continues to grow up into a BIG MAN
- Dragic seems to have regained the spring in his step after being tired from international play
- Bledsoe looks healthy and is having a pretty good year on balance
- Markieff Morris has looked like a stud overall and a bargain signing
- Gerald Green and IT, while sometimes chucking/frustrating, have won us more games than they've lost us and are potent weapons on this team
- ...

One thing that is easy to forget is that great teams have consistency. They don't just flip half of their roster every offseason; they keep a strong core and coach together and grow as a team. I think our team has a GREAT opportunity to do that over the next few seasons. That's basically what Portland has done, and they're a very solid team that always has a puncher's chance of contending every year. They're never the favorite, but the fans and the players believe in the team, and they always have a decent shot at it. One year, you never know, it could be their year. Especially if older vet teams fall off, which seems to be happening to some degree. The Spurs, Mavs, and Thunder (injuries) all are showing signs of not being what they used to be. Look at a team like Cleveland. You can't just bring in 1-2 superstars and expect everything to be great. That's not how the NBA seems to work any more.

I actually think that if we keep this roster mostly together and add modest pieces here and there, we can be a solid playoff team that may contend in a year or two. Considering that we were basically rebuilding as recently as last year, that is an awesome place to be. I don't think that is settling at all. That's just smart basketball.

The big point of contention seems to be: Do we need to go after a stud big-man? A PF? I would actually argue "no". If we did, then what would we do with Markieff? Kieff has been literally our best player this year. He's more than filling his position admirably. I don't honestly want to bring in a guy who would push Kieff to the bench undeservedly. I wouldn't mind finding a good backup for Kieff, maybe somebody with strong rebounding and defense. But maybe we can do that through the draft or free agent pickups rather than pressuring ourselves to go get a stud player at that spot.

Conclusion: I like the team we have; I want us to retain our FAs like Dragic and Green; and I *DON'T* think that is the same thing as settling for mediocrity. I think the ceiling of this overall roster and team are very high over time.

[OE32]

Great post, Mori. I agree.

I just can't bitch enough about TJ not playing at all this year. The vets just aren't taking care of these bad teams. It sucks.

[Ring_Wanted]

The big point of contention seems to be: Do we need to go after a stud big-man?

I want one more decent PF/C, to solidify the rotation. I am willing to rent.

And I am always looking for a better PF to make him a super backup as PF/C. Better can be achieved is different ways. A relevant D+R big man with 3pt range, for instance.

A bench move featuring the Morrii and the adequate guys alongside them could be a force thanks to Kieff go to ability.

[Indy]

The big point of contention seems to be: Do we need to go after a stud big-man?

I want one more decent PF/C, to solidify the rotation. I am willing to rent.

And I am always looking for a better PF to make him a super backup as PF/C. Better can be achieved is different ways. A relevant D+R big man with 3pt range, for instance.

A bench move featuring the Morrii and the adequate guys alongside them could be a force thanks to Kieff go to ability.

With the way Len has been playing of late, we need a guy to crash the boards when Len is patrolling the paint. He goes up and gets these blocks, or alters shots, and then they just get an easy offensive rebound and put back. The guy doing the best job playing that role for us has been Bledsoe. And I hate that our starting PG is the guy crashing the boards the most in that situation.

I am not sure if that can be Kieff, or we need to send him to the bench (even though he has been our best player this year) for a guy we are renting after trading away some assets to get him.

[EDC]

We can't really contend without a couple all star caliber players. We have some players that are close but I'm not sure they will ever take the next step to become unquestionable stars. We are going to have to get really lucky to find one in a trade or free agency.

So the best thing we can do is to just balance our roster and become a solid playoff team. In order to do that I think we have to ditch the three scoring point guard thing. IT should be traded at some point. Bledsoe and Dragic need to be paired up with a solid defensive two guard who can hit the three.

We also need to clear the log jam of bench quality threes and get a quality starter. Who do we run as the backup though? This is where we have some issues. Marcus is signed and no way we trade him without trading his brother. Tucker has a big deal that might be hard to move. I just don't see how we could resign Green when we already have two backup threes. I really hope they don't consider going small the long term solution to this problem.

We need another solid big so we can run a three man rotation with Kieff and Len. Then any extra minutes Plumlee or some other bench big can take.

Lets hope we get lucky in the draft and free agency and hope Len becomes a monster.

[EDC]

With the way Len has been playing of late, we need a guy to crash the boards when Len is patrolling the paint. He goes up and gets these blocks, or alters shots, and then they just get an easy offensive rebound and put back. The guy doing the best job playing that role for us has been Bledsoe. And I hate that our starting PG is the guy crashing the boards the most in that situation.

After that Coro article I quipped about them not giving Len enough credit for the guards rebounds. I was a bit off base. Bledsoe has been doing some amazing work on the boards. It is pretty impressive.

[virtual9mm]

I'm liking this discussion. Much good thinking here.

How do you turn the Suns into a contender? I disagree very much with Inf's take -- the basic strategy has been to accumulate assets that you could give up in a 3-for-1 for an All-NBA player. Not just your borderline all-star like Dragic, but rather, a player that's like Barkley.

The problem is that none of these players have come up for trade, at least, not to the Suns. This doesn't mean, however, that players such as Carmelo and Love are necessarily unobtainable.

Given all of this, I think that the Suns need to either build for the future by trading Tucker, Green AND Dragic (opening up playing time for the youngsters) OR to trade the younglings for an established player. The problem is that obvious moves in either direction do not exist. So, the Suns will wait to see if the Love situation in Cleveland will implode, if NYC starts shopping Carmelo -- or perhaps if Indy decides to tear down and rebuild and perhaps put Paul George on the market. I think that they're doing the smart thing.

[Indy]

Why would anyone want Carmelo? Especially as their cornerstone?

[Superbone]

There's something to be said for some consistency for a change. Allowing a group of guys to learn each other's game and to grow as a team. The best teams have guys that have been together for a while. I like the idea of doing this and then maybe when the time is right and the right circumstances come together putting together a package of non-core players to bring in a superstar or at least somebody that fits in perfectly for what we need as a team.

Now if a James Harden for example came available we'd be much more ready to pounce and offer a good, competitive package.

[TOO]

If Len keeps developing then I'd still throw a bunch of money at Love, he won't solve all of our problems, but the rebounding Kieff lacks and the PnR option Goran lacks would be fixed.

[AmareIsGod]

Can anyone say that the Spurs have a legitimate superstar today or over the past few years? They've had All Star caliber players, for sure. You can't say that because Tim Duncan or Tony Parker were superstars at one point in their career that they are or have been over the past few seasons. They are the model that we should follow. A strong core of All Star caliber players (2 or 3) that stay together for a period of time. Something to be said about continuity. Let's give it a shot for once. Rome wasn't built overnight.

[TOO]

Another dream signing would be Jimmy Butler.