Game Day: Raptors (23-28) @ Suns (26-25), Mon 1/30/23

[TOO]

I really like OG Anunoby. I think he's first team all-defense with all-NBA upside, but there's some paralysis by analysis going on with him right now mostly due to the Toronto's reported asking price. I'll wait until the dust settles to decide if he's at all relevant to the Suns.

What has he done that makes you think there is all nba upside there?

[Superbone]

I seem to be in the minority tonight. I'm going to quit watching him so closely. I just get really frustrated when a team gets so many put backs on offensive rebounds.

I've found myself guilty of this in the past year or so. It's a lot easier to nitpick when you're focused on every step he makes, so I try to not do it now.

Regarding tonight, I think he a had a good game by his standard. He's in a mini shooting slump that hurt his scoring numbers, but this is the third game in a row that he hasn't really loafed around for stretches. Still the same issues with mental lapses, but like I said, good game by his standard.

All good points. He seems to have a fundamental weakness for blocking out his man and instead uses his athleticism and jumping ability to get rebounds. Hopefully, he'll learn in time how to do that but in the meantime, he does a lot of good too and I need to focus on that.

[In2ition]

If you only look at DA's stats, he had a GREAT game.

This is the JeremyG method.

Guys, let's go easy on JeremyG. If you want to criticize Ayton's play, please go ahead, but JeremyG literally quit posting here because of all the folks bashing him. I realize that his persistent defenses of Ayton rubbed some of you wrong, but he isn't even here and some of you keep piling on him. I'm not trying to be oversensitive or censorious but I also want this site to be a place where we can talk to each other with respect even if we disagree.

The JeremyG needling that's done here is juvenile at best, and downright disgusting at worst, but I'm not going to figure out each person's motives. Seems like too much time is spent with bully tactics, imo.

It's no different than when everyone would harp on INFORMER because of draft picks and euros. None of it is malicious.

Nah, it's been taken to a next level with JeremyG. Maybe just be a little more conscience of it.

Imo, it's like the guy that stands behind the bully and eggs them on by talking trash themselves, but I suppose it's the nature of being anonymous online, makes us feel safe and tough to be rude to strangers that they wouldn't normally be in person.

[Superbone]

These Raptors seem like a bad team, like a whole that is less than the sun of the parts. They seem all out of sorts. They can't stop Bridges or Ayton.

This is a big reason why I have a short fuse for the extreme Monty criticism...

Look at the Raptors. They have an all-NBA player, an all-star PG (1x), the reigning ROY, and a guy who's supposedly worth 2-3 first round picks. The Suns are better on paper, but it's not by much. Yet we never hear criticism for Nick Nurse. He's unquestionably one of the best coaches in the league and his team runs the clogged toilet offense. It's one or maybe two screens to try for a mismatch and then drive and kick every single possession. I'd lose my mind watching that crap for a whole season.

Ha!

[TOO]

This is the JeremyG method.

Guys, let's go easy on JeremyG. If you want to criticize Ayton's play, please go ahead, but JeremyG literally quit posting here because of all the folks bashing him. I realize that his persistent defenses of Ayton rubbed some of you wrong, but he isn't even here and some of you keep piling on him. I'm not trying to be oversensitive or censorious but I also want this site to be a place where we can talk to each other with respect even if we disagree.

The JeremyG needling that's done here is juvenile at best, and downright disgusting at worst, but I'm not going to figure out each person's motives. Seems like too much time is spent with bully tactics, imo.

It's no different than when everyone would harp on INFORMER because of draft picks and euros. None of it is malicious.

Nah, it's been taken to a next level with JeremyG. Maybe just be a little more conscience of it.

Imo, it's like the guy that stands behind the bully and eggs them on by talking trash themselves, but I suppose it's the nature of being anonymous online, makes us feel safe and tough to be rude to strangers that they wouldn't normally be in person.

Not sure I agree with that assessment in any way. I've also not looked at it that deeply, always just gave him shit for his Ayton blinders. I can't speak for others, but I never got this sense at all. It's always been Ayton related ribbing.

[specialsauce]

Guys, let's go easy on JeremyG. If you want to criticize Ayton's play, please go ahead, but JeremyG literally quit posting here because of all the folks bashing him. I realize that his persistent defenses of Ayton rubbed some of you wrong, but he isn't even here and some of you keep piling on him. I'm not trying to be oversensitive or censorious but I also want this site to be a place where we can talk to each other with respect even if we disagree.

The JeremyG needling that's done here is juvenile at best, and downright disgusting at worst, but I'm not going to figure out each person's motives. Seems like too much time is spent with bully tactics, imo.

It's no different than when everyone would harp on INFORMER because of draft picks and euros. None of it is malicious.

Nah, it's been taken to a next level with JeremyG. Maybe just be a little more conscience of it.

Imo, it's like the guy that stands behind the bully and eggs them on by talking trash themselves, but I suppose it's the nature of being anonymous online, makes us feel safe and tough to be rude to strangers that they wouldn't normally be in person.

Not sure I agree with that assessment in any way. I've also not looked at it that deeply, always just gave him shit for his Ayton blinders. I can't speak for others, but I never got this sense at all. It's always been Ayton related ribbing.

Oh yeah, so all you stupid idiots slobbering all over Oubre and rubbing it in my face is different?

Give me a break. This is meant to be a place for banter. If you can’t take the heat then don’t tickle the dragon.

You’re all idiots but I keep coming back for more. I’m sauce and I approve that message

[Mori Chu]

It's okay for us to bust each other's chops. People tease me for being a secondary Warriors fan and for loving Ricky Rubio. People tease INF for loving obscure draft prospects and players. People tease Superbone for his third nipple. But sometimes with JeremyG/Ayton the amount gets to be too much or the tone gets a little too mean-spirited.

There was a post earlier in this thread where TOO said, "3 dunks. JeremyG somewhere walking on sunshine " I think that kind of message is just fine; you're ribbing JeremyG a bit about liking Ayton, but it doesn't sound hostile. And plenty of other messages rebutting JeremyG's opinions about Ayton and his play, all of that is fine. For any message directed at another board member, just read your message back to yourself and ask how it sounds.

We also don't need to rebut every single post we disagree with; that can quickly spiral out of control. Sometimes if JeremyG says something about Ayton and I don't agree, I just don't reply to it. No need to be the "Someone is WRONG on the internet" guy.

I just want us to generally be nice to each other and get along. As my friend JAKE_ROWDER might say, "LOVE IS LOVE.!"

[Superbone]

"I don't know. I love it. You turn me up. You poke the bear. I wish it would get poked every game.."

OK, one more and then I'm done for today. This bugs me too the fact that he has to be woken up and doesn't have the self-motivation. Another thing I have to accept about him is that he's a gentle giant. He'll never have Shaq-like aggressiveness without being motivated by an external force.

[Shabazz]

(Good thread btw)

[Superbone]

It's okay for us to bust each other's chops. People tease me for being a secondary Warriors fan and for loving Ricky Rubio. People tease INF for loving obscure draft prospects and players. People tease Superbone for his third nipple. But sometimes with JeremyG/Ayton the amount gets to be too much or the tone gets a little too mean-spirited.

There was a post earlier in this thread where TOO said, "3 dunks. JeremyG somewhere walking on sunshine " I think that kind of message is just fine; you're ribbing JeremyG a bit about liking Ayton, but it doesn't sound hostile. And plenty of other messages rebutting JeremyG's opinions about Ayton and his play, all of that is fine. For any message directed at another board member, just read your message back to yourself and ask how it sounds.

We also don't need to rebut every single post we disagree with; that can quickly spiral out of control. Sometimes if JeremyG says something about Ayton and I don't agree, I just don't reply to it. No need to be the "Someone is WRONG on the internet" guy.

I just want us to generally be nice to each other and get along. As my friend JAKE_ROWDER might say, "LOVE IS LOVE.!"

Hey! Who told you?!

You have to read the room too. Saucy knows it's all in fun when I rib him about Oubre and Mike James. Marty about the Warriors and now the Spurs (of all teams!!!) Jeremy is a good guy and he let it be known that it was too much for him so let's give him a break.

[Superbone]

How did Mikal even get to this lol

I don't know. It looks like it was passed right to him.

[LazarusLong]

The JeremyG needling that's done here is juvenile at best, and downright disgusting at worst, but I'm not going to figure out each person's motives. Seems like too much time is spent with bully tactics, imo.

It's no different than when everyone would harp on INFORMER because of draft picks and euros. None of it is malicious.

Nah, it's been taken to a next level with JeremyG. Maybe just be a little more conscience of it.

Imo, it's like the guy that stands behind the bully and eggs them on by talking trash themselves, but I suppose it's the nature of being anonymous online, makes us feel safe and tough to be rude to strangers that they wouldn't normally be in person.

Not sure I agree with that assessment in any way. I've also not looked at it that deeply, always just gave him shit for his Ayton blinders. I can't speak for others, but I never got this sense at all. It's always been Ayton related ribbing.

Oh yeah, so all you stupid idiots slobbering all over Oubre and rubbing it in my face is different?

Give me a break. This is meant to be a place for banter. If you can’t take the heat then don’t tickle the dragon.

You’re all idiots but I keep coming back for more. I’m sauce and I approve that message

Hell, Sauce, I give you props for maintaining that Popeye Jones avatar ...

[Aztec Sunsfan]

Jeremy brings it upon himself, because he just CAN'T let ONE Ayton post going uncontested and then he keep it going, and when there is a vacuum of Ayton comments, he turns anything into Ayton related.

It's not piling up on the guy, it's the volume of traffic he attracts to himself on a negative note. That and being so stubborn make it look like bullying and of course everybody gets tired: Jeremy by swinging at every chance, multiple people trying to engage with him only to get sick of that stubbornness, and the rest having entire threads kidnapped by eternal Ayton debates.

[virtual9mm]

Jeremy wasn't wrong, although he's taken things to an extreme. The guard centric offense has restricted Ayton's development. He hadn't been given the opportunity to fail and learn from these failures. This is what you call player development.

Now, whether Ayton will take advantage of this is still up in the air. I thought Bridges was failing and then all of a sudden, he went full Pippen on us. Can Ayton still make the same leap?

[TOO]

Not sure what opportunities you expect him to have with his skills in today's NBA. He's got a nice post hook and a decent middle, neither of which he can get for himself, but that is somehow the guards fault? Especially with CP3 being historically great at getting big athletes involved, just doesn't make sense here. Ayton hasn't gotten better because he doesn't want to. People add new things, you can see the growth, Ayton is the same dude that got bodied by Buffalo or whatever it was in the ncaa tourney.

[Flagrant Fowl]

These Raptors seem like a bad team, like a whole that is less than the sun of the parts. They seem all out of sorts. They can't stop Bridges or Ayton.

This is a big reason why I have a short fuse for the extreme Monty criticism...

Look at the Raptors. They have an all-NBA player, an all-star PG (1x), the reigning ROY, and a guy who's supposedly worth 2-3 first round picks. The Suns are better on paper, but it's not by much. Yet we never hear criticism for Nick Nurse. He's unquestionably one of the best coaches in the league and his team runs the clogged toilet offense. It's one or maybe two screens to try for a mismatch and then drive and kick every single possession. I'd lose my mind watching that crap for a whole season.

Thats what winning a title does for you.

Not disagreeing with you, but that title is increasingly looking like a fluke for Nick Nurse.

They rented a top 5 player, benefited from possibly the most miraculous shot in the history of the NBA playoffs and Kevin Durant blowing out his achilles in the Finals.

[TOO]

Hard to argue with that.

[ShadowHawke]

Ayton can not pass himself the ball, but positioning, footwork, and ball handling are all skills he needs to develop. The Suns do not have a David Robinson type that could have helped him develop like Tim Duncan, but sometimes you need to take the onus upon yourself to improve.

[TOO]

Ayton can not pass himself the ball, but positioning, footwork, and ball handling are all skills he needs to develop. The Suns do not have a David Robinson type that could have helped him develop like Tim Duncan, but sometimes you need to take the onus upon yourself to improve.

Tim Duncan was all all timer in college, he was gonna be just fine without the Admiral.

[Drewsprocket]

Ayton can not pass himself the ball, but positioning, footwork, and ball handling are all skills he needs to develop. The Suns do not have a David Robinson type that could have helped him develop like Tim Duncan, but sometimes you need to take the onus upon yourself to improve.

Tim Duncan was all all timer in college, he was gonna be just fine without the Admiral.

Ayton is a top 3 center when he is focused, locked in, and just tries hard.