Western Conference Round 2, Game 1: Suns (0-0) @ Nuggets (0-0), Sat 4/29/23

[Drewsprocket]

Could Ayton have had more rebounds? Sure, maybe two or three, but much of the time Ayton was out on top guarding perimeter shots. How is he supposed to keep them off the boards?

You were there for the Amare Stoudemire years, right? So you know what effort looks like. You can't tell me with a straight face that Ayton is putting in the effort or force required to be a difference maker.

Amare was our #1 scorer--he was not playing behind KD and Booker.

Amare was not one of my favorite players. I didn't like his lack of defense and rebounding. Amare never averaged double digits in rebounds a single time in his career, while Ayton has done it every season in his career.

What Amare did best, he was consistent with. You can’t say the same for Ayton. Ayton’s just not dialed in for whatever reason. He hasn’t been clutch rebounding or altering shots in the paint this postseason. I can let of his lack of counters he just isn’t that guy offensively.

[Superbone]

Ayton being blasted all over social media today, just brings me joy.

Not me. I'm severely disappointed.

But why?

I don't understand your question. You don't understand why I'm disappointed? Or why Ayton being blasted doesn't bring me joy?

[Superbone]

I genuinely can't tell if everyone just likes to find something to hate Ayton for, or if nobody understands what what was happening on that play or the reasons why it happened. Regardless, it was one freaking play. The social media age is ridiculous.

It’s just a bad look…I don’t remember what happened right before, but even if he forced the missed shot, he needs to try and get back in the play. He obviously thought Jokic wouldn’t miss the putback from point blank and that’s why he just stood there, but this is the playoffs. Can’t afford to just stand there. He’s just a low energy guy. He doesn’t waste any unless absolutely necessary.

And it’s not just 1 play…stuff like this happens all the time. Do you think 19 boards to 7 was acceptable? Yes his teammates need to help and are to blame too, but can you tell me exactly what we’re paying Ayton the max for? He’s not a top tier offensive player(can’t dribble), he’s not a great defensive player, he’s not controlling the glass. What is he doing that makes him worth the max? He’s billed as a guy who’s not elite at anything but great at everything and it’s been trending more towards just ok/good at everything. He’s just underwhelming. If he was making 15 million a year and we could spend the other 15 on 1-2 more rotation players, I’d be just fine with him, but at his salary and with our depth, we absolutely need him to dominate in certain areas(rebounding, rim protection)

This is all obvious stuff to all but two. One is a board member. The other is the man himself.

I think 2021 Ayton would be embarrassed by 2023 Ayton’s performance

I don't think Ayton suffers from embarrassment. Otherwise, he'd be putting in more effort.

[Superbone]

Amare was our #1 scorer--he was not playing behind KD and Booker.

There's a very good reason for that. And it would be no different with any other players next to him. Ayton is a submissive player. Time to face facts.

[Superbone]

Back to Suns talk. I could go over all my criticisms of the Suns but, I think it’s been covered already. I am almost glad the Suns got their asses handed to them instead of a close loss. It will be that much harder for the Nuggets to get up for the next game and serve as motivation for the Suns hopefully. The Suns will be a little more acclimated to the altitude. The Nuggets were pumped for the game and hitting all their shots. The Suns didn’t bring their A game. The Suns lost the first game to the Clippers.

I can see this going a few ways.

• We play much better and win game two and the whole complexion changes.
  We play much better and narrowly lose game two. Scary but now we're going home and HAVE to win the next two.
  We get destroyed again and now it's looking very bad.

Let's just hope we don't go out in embarrassing fashion again this round. Especially after everything we gave up. I guess if this worst case happens, we can be be pretty sure drastic changes would be coming in probably coaching and certainly roster. OK, I am WAY out in front of myself.

[Superbone]

I’m wonder what adjustments the Suns will make in game 2. Ayton ending up guarding wings at the three point line and they were bombing away. That was talked about a lot here already. I am pretty sure that was in the Nuggets game plan. Get Ayton switched onto a wing and pull him back to the 3 pt line. If they miss, Ayton isn’t close enough to get the rebound. If they make it and they did, Ayton had been neutered. Does he need to get a little closer to the shooters when they do that, forcing them to drive around him and would they have a game plan for help?

The things I wonder about with Ayton is is the coaching staff really telling him to do the things that he does? They seem like all mostly bad decisions. Or is Ayton the one driving it?

[Split T]

Do you think 19 boards to 7 was acceptable?

No, but like I said, much of the time Ayton was guarding players out on the perimeter. Again, coaching is part of it.

Coaching is a part of it, having him guard wings isn't great, but also you can't play him in a drop because he doesn't intimidate anyone in the paint, so what is your solution?

There are other defensive schemes the coaching staff could implement that can keep him on Jokic (very important for defending Jokic) and keep him near the rim more instead of the perimeter (very important for rebounding).

There’s not a good option for defending Jokic/Murray. Need a guard that can get over the screen so Ayton doesn’t have to switch. Ayton has to be close enough to discourage a Murray pull-up, but be able to get back to Jokic. That’s tough because Jokic is so skilled, he doesn’t need much space to take advantage.

Can’t always guarantee you can keep Ayton on Jokic. He’s going to have to switch at times when our defenders die on the screen, but I’d like to see Ayton fight more to get back to Jokic. If a shot goes up, I want him coming back to the rim…can’t be just boxing out Murray 20 feet from the rim.

The help defenders need to be more aware as well. If Ayton switches, that should be a signal to everyone to crash.

[JeremyG]

Amare was our #1 scorer--he was not playing behind KD and Booker.

There's a very good reason for that. And it would be no different with any other players next to him. Ayton is a submissive player. Time to face facts.

Amare would be #1 if he had KD and Booker next to him??

[JeremyG]

I’m wonder what adjustments the Suns will make in game 2. Ayton ending up guarding wings at the three point line and they were bombing away. That was talked about a lot here already. I am pretty sure that was in the Nuggets game plan. Get Ayton switched onto a wing and pull him back to the 3 pt line. If they miss, Ayton isn’t close enough to get the rebound. If they make it and they did, Ayton had been neutered. Does he need to get a little closer to the shooters when they do that, forcing them to drive around him and would they have a game plan for help?

The things I wonder about with Ayton is is the coaching staff really telling him to do the things that he does? They seem like all mostly bad decisions. Or is Ayton the one driving it?

Think about it this way. Does it look any better for the coach if it's DA making these decisions on his own? That would mean the coach is not telling him to stop doing what he's doing, becuase I doubt he keeps doing what the coach tells him not to do--if so, he would have benched him.

[JeremyG]

In addition to what I've already talked about, here are some of my thoughts on Monty Williams last night:

The Good:

Fantastic use of the coach's challenge. Yes it was early but it saved a foul from Booker and led to three points instead of a turnover.

The Bad:

Not matching Ayton's minutes with Jokic's minutes. Even I was shocked at this one. And then it led to benching Biyombo just because he couldn't defend Jokic (umm, duh).

The Ugly:

Refusing to play Cam Payne, the closest thing we have both to a backup point guard and a microwave off the bench (well, at least since Monty doesn't even seem to care to establish such a role for guys like Ross or Warren). And instead playing...once again...Landry Shamet. Unbelievable.

[specialsauce]

I genuinely can't tell if everyone just likes to find something to hate Ayton for, or if nobody understands what what was happening on that play or the reasons why it happened. Regardless, it was one freaking play. The social media age is ridiculous.

Yep yep, it’s not you it’s everyone else

[MightyMoog]

We were doing just fine in this game until Shamet came in. Then we let them get a lead and after that we played them even. Even with the heater Murray was on, we could’ve been more competitive with Payne in instead of Shamet. Problem with Payne is, he’s not that useful without the ball in his hands. And that takes it out of Booker’s hand. This is the best I can presume of what Monty is thinking. I’d still rather have the Payne minutes and have Booker go harder later.

Ayton was fine. He was playing Jokic to a near draw in the first half. Which would have sufficed. Our overall defense wasn’t all that bad, but they were absolutely hitting everything, while we were missing our open shots. I think we need to clean up the defense, but we also need more rum pressure from our guards. Paul and Shamet can’t do it, our only options are Book and Payne.

[Aztec Sunsfan]

A lot to think on for the coaching staff, no doubt.

Also, not even Shamet understand why Monty keeps him on the rotation, his playoffs body language is pure broken confidence, that Crowder meme is gold. PROBLEM IS, if you starts Okogie, Landry is the first "defensive" guard available from the bench, unless you think Payne or Ross would have done a better job on Murray. The game was lost with turnovers and rebounding, you can't expect to win with so much disparity on FGA against an offensive team as talented as this. Phoenix actually had a better FG % for Christ sake!!!

Unlike the Clippers, on this game the Nuggets didn't try to nulify Durant with instant double teaming and sticking a defender on him even if Kevin remained under his own basket (and that only worked if you want to describe Durant's scoring average in round 1 as "nullified") and dare the Suns to beat them with Booker (Wich he did to perfection). The team didn't adjust from the past series as KD kept trying to find the open man instead of shooting (specially after it was clear that Booker just didn't have it)

On every non Jokic minutes seat Paul and go with Durant at the five. Get both Okogie and Craig to deal with Murray and whoever is having a hot hand between MPJ and Gordon and roll with Point Book AND Durant bringing the ball up and sharing the scoring load. And round up the five with a third scorer, either big (Warren) or small (T-Ross). Suns just can't go so toothless against this offensive team and Payne just does not looks ready, and apparently

Given that Ayton prefers to watch the game from the sidelines, get him in for just about 24 minutes, all of them Jokic minutes, with no fear to foul, given how little he is going to play. Only reward minutes to high-motor-Ayton, if he is no show, then glue low-motor-Ayton to the bench and roll with Biyombo, Landale and six-fouls-from-Ish-and-whoever-wants-to-put-the-effort. Good lord, that sidelines sequence was awful, with only Durant AND PAUL (yes, our old point guard was putting more effort on the glass than our youngest core player) battling for the rebound. Sit him every time he does that.

Also, as both MPJ and Gordon are bigger and stronger than Okogie, maybe they should return to Craig in the starting lineup and let Booker deal with Murray on more possessions, putting Craig on Gordon or MPJ as they come into the strong side, and Durant helping from the weakside.

[Superbone]

Amare was our #1 scorer--he was not playing behind KD and Booker.

There's a very good reason for that. And it would be no different with any other players next to him. Ayton is a submissive player. Time to face facts.

Amare would be #1 if he had KD and Booker next to him??

I was talking about Ayton.

[Mori Chu]

I think maybe I'd like to see Monty make the following adjustments in Game 2:

- Start Craig. I like starting Okogie in general, but maybe we need Okogie as a second guard off the bench right now.

- Don't play Shamet, Like, at all. Or minimize his minutes.

- Play Landale. Biyombo has been great, but this series is more of a scoring contest / track meet. Landale may give us the scoring we need off the bench.

- Shoot more 3s. Run more sets that are meant to get an open 3-point shooter. We can't have that kind of discrepancy again.

Starters: CP3, Booker, Craig, KD, Ayton
Bench: Payne, Lee, Okogie, Landale

[Nodack]

Payne hasn’t gotten much time at all since he came back and I wonder if that’s because his tailbone is still giving him trouble.

[Shabazz]

Payne hasn’t gotten much time at all since he came back and I wonder if that’s because his tailbone is still giving him trouble.

I think it's because he's been pretty bad for 2 straight years, one early stretch this season notwithstanding.

He's still better than Landry, though.

[AmareIsGod]

Payne hasn’t gotten much time at all since he came back and I wonder if that’s because his tailbone is still giving him trouble.

His injuries are really starting to become a Payne in the ass.

[Superbone]

Payne hasn’t gotten much time at all since he came back and I wonder if that’s because his tailbone is still giving him trouble.

His injuries are really starting to become a Payne in the ass.

All I know is, no Payne, no gain.

[JeremyG]

Amare was our #1 scorer--he was not playing behind KD and Booker.

There's a very good reason for that. And it would be no different with any other players next to him. Ayton is a submissive player. Time to face facts.

Amare would be #1 if he had KD and Booker next to him??

I was talking about Ayton.

Wait you meant that Ayton would not be our #1 scorer no matter what other players are next to him? He was our #1 scorer while Booker was out.