All Things Ayton

[JeremyG]

Surely not his best game but I don't care whom you are playing, 21 boards can't be as easily discounted as it has been here. Consistency will continue to be an issue.

Kevon Looney?

Okay then let’s pay him Looney money.

Not exciting. Woop dee doo he grabbed 21 boards in a YMCA game where he’s easily the biggest and most athletic.

The fact he couldn’t assert himself offensively at all is pathetic.

Let me know when Looney averages double figures in rebounding (or a double-double) in any season in his career.

Let me know when Ayton fails to average double figures in rebounding (or a double-double) in any season in his career.

Looney has never averaged double figures in scoring, either, and had a total of two double-doubles in the playoffs. But let's not let facts get in the way.

Lolololololol. You’re talking about someone making $7M annually vs a max guy.

Because you said he should be making Looney money. Which is so ridiculous I shouldn’t have even responded.

[JeremyG]

Curious…. What will aytons PPG average be this season with all the tweaks? Given the teams make up… I’d be good with 18ppg.

I doubt Ayton will average 18 ppg. There won't be enough shots to go around for him to average that many. But that's okay; we don't need that from him. I am hoping for more like 15-16 ppg, 12 rpg, 1 bpg. Engaged on defense.

Yeah, not too worried about his offense. The defensive end is where he can make the biggest difference for us if he buys in to that.

I guess you guys need to convince FF then. Because If what we need from him for the Suns is what FF admitted he provided for the Bahamas, then I don’t see where there’s a problem.

[JeremyG]

The first game was different because the opposing roster was filled with guys who'd probably defect from their country if given the chance.

Evaluating him playing in the Drew League would've been better than that game against Cuba.

Quite possible but I saw stuff in that first game that he's never tried in games before. Maybe he can't do it against better competition quite yet and maybe he's a year away from doing so. But even if that's the case, it's something.

This Ayton discussion is getting pretty pointless. If you're pro (or ok with) Ayton, you're going to see signs of progress. If you're a Hayter, you're going to see the negatives. The only thing we all agree upon is that he is a plus if he puts in the effort, which we saw for a few games here. I'm not going to overreact to the ups and downs, he'll be inconsistent. The real question is how inconsistent.

What if you're neither pro or a hayter? If you see the progress and the positives and also acknowledge the concerns.

That doesn't seem to be allowed. That's where I am as well. But if you don't show all love, you are labeled as a hater.

Hayter (you need to get the spelling and capitalization right ).

[virtual9mm]

The first game was different because the opposing roster was filled with guys who'd probably defect from their country if given the chance.

Evaluating him playing in the Drew League would've been better than that game against Cuba.

Quite possible but I saw stuff in that first game that he's never tried in games before. Maybe he can't do it against better competition quite yet and maybe he's a year away from doing so. But even if that's the case, it's something.

This Ayton discussion is getting pretty pointless. If you're pro (or ok with) Ayton, you're going to see signs of progress. If you're a Hayter, you're going to see the negatives. The only thing we all agree upon is that he is a plus if he puts in the effort, which we saw for a few games here. I'm not going to overreact to the ups and downs, he'll be inconsistent. The real question is how inconsistent.

What if you're neither pro or a hayter? If you see the progress and the positives and also acknowledge the concerns.

That doesn't seem to be allowed. That's where I am as well. But if you don't show all love, you are labeled as a hater.

I'm with you gents.

[Flagrant Fowl]

He was more efficient than a bunch of guys who'll never sniff the NBA. And Facundo Campazzo.

Hmm. I guess Hield and Gordon will never sniff the NBA.

LOL. You know I meant opponents, but OK.

[Flagrant Fowl]

Curious…. What will aytons PPG average be this season with all the tweaks? Given the teams make up… I’d be good with 18ppg.

I doubt Ayton will average 18 ppg. There won't be enough shots to go around for him to average that many. But that's okay; we don't need that from him. I am hoping for more like 15-16 ppg, 12 rpg, 1 bpg. Engaged on defense.

Yeah, not too worried about his offense. The defensive end is where he can make the biggest difference for us if he buys in to that.

I guess you guys need to convince FF then. Because If what we need from him for the Suns is what FF admitted he provided for the Bahamas, then I don’t see where there’s a problem.

I literally said the same thing like 6 pages ago. Maybe more, IDK, this discussion is a black hole. Yet somehow I'm sure you'd label me a hater for pointing out flaws in the superstar Ayton fairytale.

The problem isn't that he can't play the same role for the Suns, it's if he's willing to do it night in and out. We've seen for his entire career that extrapolating a 4 game sample with this guy is a fools errand.

[JeremyG]

• Still too easy to force into favorable decisions for the defense. For example, teams started crowding him on the catch to limit his jump shot and using a double team when he received a pass within 7-feet of the rim. I can't remember one time he dribble attacked in those situations after the Cuba game.

You're ignoring the fact that he did a much-improved job of not turning the ball over in those situations. Do you really want him trying to dribble through a double-team? How will it be "favorable" for the defense if he passes it out to Durant, Booker, Beal, or Gordon? If we dump the ball into Ayton and he's doubled and is able to find the open man, or even someone who swings it to the open man, we will be unstoppable.

[Nodack]

None of this means anything.

[JeremyG]

I remember a brief discussion about the summer league stats Bo Outlaw would put up when he played for the Suns.

Level of competition matters.

And yet DA couldn’t flash any semblance of an offensive game against this competition. He is basically a taller Kurt Thomas on offense with less guts

"couldn't flash any semblance of an offensive game"

[JeremyG]

None of this means anything.

It means something for those who said that he has no heart, no competitive spirit, and doesn't even enjoy basketball and only does it because it's his job.

If that's the case, then why did he even play for the Bahamas?

[Flagrant Fowl]

• Still too easy to force into favorable decisions for the defense. For example, teams started crowding him on the catch to limit his jump shot and using a double team when he received a pass within 7-feet of the rim. I can't remember one time he dribble attacked in those situations after the Cuba game.

You're ignoring the fact that he did a much-improved job of not turning the ball over in those situations. Do you really want him trying to dribble through a double-team? How will it be "favorable" for the defense if he passes it out to Durant, Booker, Beal, or Gordon? If we dump the ball into Ayton and he's doubled and is able to find the open man, or even someone who swings it to the open man, we will be unstoppable.

Was it much improved? I don't really recall him getting double teamed in the NBA because it's unnecessary. He's even willingly passed out of a mismatch numerous times. And yes, I would like to see him try to back down dribble into a smaller defender on a double team once in a while. Immediately passing the ball out is basically a win for the defense.

[Cap]

I remember a brief discussion about the summer league stats Bo Outlaw would put up when he played for the Suns.

Level of competition matters.

And yet DA couldn’t flash any semblance of an offensive game against this competition. He is basically a taller Kurt Thomas on offense with less guts

"couldn't flash any semblance of an offensive game"

When he triple clutched all alone under the bucket, I gave up.

But hey, two points.

[JeremyG]

I remember a brief discussion about the summer league stats Bo Outlaw would put up when he played for the Suns.

Level of competition matters.

And yet DA couldn’t flash any semblance of an offensive game against this competition. He is basically a taller Kurt Thomas on offense with less guts

"couldn't flash any semblance of an offensive game"

When he triple clutched all alone under the bucket, I gave up.

But hey, two points.

Perhaps he was waiting to try to draw contact because he knew he could get an and-1. You know, like everyone has been wanting him to do.

[Flagrant Fowl]

There are millions of children around the world whose parents don't believe in them as much as you believe in Deandre Ayton.

[JeremyG]

• Still too easy to force into favorable decisions for the defense. For example, teams started crowding him on the catch to limit his jump shot and using a double team when he received a pass within 7-feet of the rim. I can't remember one time he dribble attacked in those situations after the Cuba game.

You're ignoring the fact that he did a much-improved job of not turning the ball over in those situations. Do you really want him trying to dribble through a double-team? How will it be "favorable" for the defense if he passes it out to Durant, Booker, Beal, or Gordon? If we dump the ball into Ayton and he's doubled and is able to find the open man, or even someone who swings it to the open man, we will be unstoppable.

Was it much improved? I don't really recall him getting double teamed in the NBA because it's unnecessary. He's even willingly passed out of a mismatch numerous times. And yes, I would like to see him try to back down dribble into a smaller defender on a double team once in a while. Immediately passing the ball out is basically a win for the defense.

He got stripped of the ball maybe once the whole tournament, while being crowded more than he ever has been in his career (when rebounding the ball, catching the ball, being double- and triple-teamed, etc.). In those situations previously, he has turned the ball over more than we would like.

And yes, he was doubled a lot last season, especially when Book and/or CP3 were injured for extended periods.

And yes, I would like to see him try to back down dribble into a smaller defender on a double team once in a while. Immediately passing the ball out is basically a win for the defense.

I don't see how that's a "win" if he has Durant, Booker, Beal, and Gordon on the floor with him, with one of them wide open. But ok.

[Flagrant Fowl]

He got stripped of the ball maybe once the whole tournament, while being crowded more than he ever has been in his career (when rebounding the ball, catching the ball, being double- and triple-teamed, etc.)

I don't see how that's a "win" if he has Durant, Booker, Beal, and Gordon on the floor with him, with one of them wide open. But ok.

Stop moving the goalposts.

IDK why I'm even engaging. Carry on, just try to keep it in your pants.

[Vladimir_Taltos]

Ayton playing against a bunch of 5' 5" players doesn't make the point that he's going to have a breakout season...jury is still out...does he raise his FTAs high enough so he's not in the bottom 25 of the top 100 attempts in the league...clock is ticking...

[Kryptonic]

Yep…. Basically Oompa Loompas out there…. But man could they hoop. Would they be hoompa loompas then?

My expectations have been tempered since his up and down play last year…. My predictions are he starts the season great but as soon as he doesn’t get enough credit he’ll backslide. If he can learn to play through the ebbs and flows and learn to play hard consistently is all I want from him.

[In2ition]

They need to treat him like he has the gas tank of a lawn mower. You need to constantly gas him up. Before the game, at every timeout, at halftime, at the start of the 4th quarter and afterwards. "Let's go dawg, you got this!" "You are showing them Dominayton tonight!" "You keep showing you are one of the badest dudes on the planet" ect...

[Kryptonic]

They need to treat him like he has the gas tank of a lawn mower. You need to constantly gas him up. Before the game, at every timeout, at halftime, at the start of the 4th quarter and afterwards. "Let's go dawg, you got this!" "You are showing them Dominayton tonight!" "You keep showing you are one of the badest dudes on the planet" ect...

Great way to look at it… I like it.