2023 General Offseason/PostSeason League News

[Cap]

I’d love to see any team in the world challenge the NBA champions. They wouldn’t stand a chance. Yes, they are the best team in the world no matter what you call them.

I think most on the planet view the NBA as the top of the basketball heap. The US invented basketball and introduced it to the world. The rest of the world gradually fell in love with the game and over the years the rest of the world has done a lot of catching up to the US. Take away all the non US born players in the NBA 30 years ago and nobody would notice. Take away all the foreign born players today and a huge chunk of the NBA would be missing.

I do think it is arrogant for Americans to call it the World Championship even though it kind of is. The closest thing to a real world championship is the Olympics and the US has a pretty good track record there.

They are the most successful team in international competition, winning medals in all nineteen Olympic tournaments it has entered, including sixteen golds. In the professional era, the team won the Olympic gold medal in 1992, 1996, 2000, 2008, 2012, 2016, and 2020.

Well, actually a Canadian invented it but America developed it from there. But I get what you’re saying. Yes, the NBA is international and that’s why the teams are the cream of the crop. They are most of the best players in the world, not just the US.

A Canadian, sure, but living in the US at the time. Those first games were played in Springfield MA, and presumably most or all of the players were American. But yes, Naismith himself was an immigrant from Canada.

[Nodack]

We don’t count the Canadians.

We know the Wright Brothers had the first flight but when I was in Brazil they kept telling me they had the first flight.

[Carno]

I agree that the NBA Championship is the de facto World Championship, at least for the foreseeable future. It's just arrogant to call it that, that is until the NBA champion actually plays and beats teams from other leagues.

On another note, it's interesting that the US views the Olympics as the real World Championship, but the rest of the world views the FIBA World Cup as the most prestigious basketball tournament (or so I've read). I've always wondered why that is. If the clearly best team only sends its best players to the Olympics, then that is the premier tournament.

[Carno]

We know the Wright Brothers had the first flight but when I was in Brazil they kept telling me they had the first flight.

And both Ohio and North Carolina take credit for the Wright Brothers first flight.

[O_Gardino]

I agree that the NBA Championship is the de facto World Championship, at least for the foreseeable future. It's just arrogant to call it that, that is until the NBA champion actually plays and beats teams from other leagues.
...

I agree with this take. Is it ok for our marketing and sales people to make arrogant and exaggerated claims that are probably true about the product? We do it all the time. It doesn't bother me that someone would call them out on it, but I wouldn't have even noticed. I have a category in my mind called "marketing bullshit"; it looks like a burning dumpster and that is where I throw 90% of the words that come into my ears and eyes.

[O_Gardino]

As for the Cam vs PJ debate - this whole discussion feels very old fashioned to me. PJ is a "true 4"? Cam is done developing at age 27? Y'all it's 2023.

[Split T]

I don’t think anyone is saying he’s done developing. It’s that he probably has less development left than PJ. And PJ is more of a 4 than Cam, not sure what the issue is there.

[pickle]

I guess being more of a 4 isn’t really necessarily a strength. By the same logic it can also be said that Cam is more of a 3 and it’s a total wash. I also don’t think development is all that linear. FF’s point that PJ hasn’t ever played on a good team is valid, but it’s also interesting that no good team went after him and he didn’t get a team USA invite. I’d say tbe 7.5 mil gap between their salaries is pretty accurate.

At this point I’d prefer Grant Williams over PJ Washington, and Williams didn’t get paid that highly either.

[Split T]

PJ is a 4 that can kinda play small ball 5. Cam is a 3 that can play some small ball 4.

Cam has the one skill that will always get paid, that’s why he got more. No teams went after PJ because he was restricted. Teams just don’t want to mess with that process when there’s very little chance they get the player.

[JeremyG]

If I'm going to have a player that doesn't rebound very well, I would rather have the 3/4 than the 4/5.

[AmareIsGod]

PJ is a 4 that can kinda play small ball 5. Cam is a 3 that can play some small ball 4.

Cam has the one skill that will always get paid, that’s why he got more. No teams went after PJ because he was restricted. Teams just don’t want to mess with that process when there’s very little chance they get the player.

PJ Tucker? Paulo Johnston?

[Split T]

Washington

[pickle]

The restricted free agent point is fair, but Cam was also restricted. If we are talking about value contracts, I’d still much prefer Grant Williams at 53/4 than PJ Washington at 48/3. And I like PJ and all but I don’t get this potential talk too much. Just because he’s young doesn’t mean that he will get better, he just has a slight chance to due to his age. He’s had quite decent opportunity over the last few years, especially this last year when Miles Bridges was out, and he didn’t really wow anybody. The only excuse for him that makes sense is that the team and system hasn’t been a plus for him.

[Split T]

Yes, but Cam also just resigned with Brooklyn. He didn’t get any offer sheets either. He got more because he’s better, I don’t think anyone is disputing that. I just can see where PJ at 16 is better than Cam at 24.

And I’m not saying he will get better. It’s just a generalization. More often then not, the 25 year old has more growth left in him than a 27 year old.

[Furlanfufi]

We don’t count the Canadians.

We know the Wright Brothers had the first flight but when I was in Brazil they kept telling me they had the first flight.

We had the first and 14 bis, Santos Dumont plane, didn't have to use a slingshot to be airborn. And the flight was in Paris.

[Nodack]

Knew you would chime in on this.

[bajanguy008]

[pickle]

Yes, but Cam also just resigned with Brooklyn. He didn’t get any offer sheets either. He got more because he’s better, I don’t think anyone is disputing that. I just can see where PJ at 16 is better than Cam at 24.

And I’m not saying he will get better. It’s just a generalization. More often then not, the 25 year old has more growth left in him than a 27 year old.

At this point honestly I don’t think we are disagreeing on too much here. I think 16 per is a solid deal for PJ Washington and in certain team builds I’d like to try him out too. But I personally don’t see him as a player with tons of untapped potential who could play at 24 mil per levels that will make this a huge bargain, and honestly would be slightly surprised if he were to perform at those levels.

I think Cam got a solid deal and if he underperforms that deal it would be because of injuries. His room for improvement may not be super high, at least in the shooting department, as in the 2k analogy sense his ceiling may be at 97 for outside shooting and he’s already at 93, but if he does continue to shoot at 43% or whatever he was at last season for another year and consistently plays about 65 games per, he would approach Korver/Redick level shooting gravity and he’s actual on court value is greater than his absolute rating and he would be on a more than adequate deal.

[Flagrant Fowl]

I'm 92.4% sure Ben Simmons doesn't actually enjoy the playing part of being an NBA player.

I don't even know what 100% Ben Simmons is anymore, and at this point he needs to do something remotely near a real NBA player for longer than half a season for me to believe in him again.

[Split T]

Yes, but Cam also just resigned with Brooklyn. He didn’t get any offer sheets either. He got more because he’s better, I don’t think anyone is disputing that. I just can see where PJ at 16 is better than Cam at 24.

And I’m not saying he will get better. It’s just a generalization. More often then not, the 25 year old has more growth left in him than a 27 year old.

At this point honestly I don’t think we are disagreeing on too much here. I think 16 per is a solid deal for PJ Washington and in certain team builds I’d like to try him out too. But I personally don’t see him as a player with tons of untapped potential who could play at 24 mil per levels that will make this a huge bargain, and honestly would be slightly surprised if he were to perform at those levels.

I think Cam got a solid deal and if he underperforms that deal it would be because of injuries. His room for improvement may not be super high, at least in the shooting department, as in the 2k analogy sense his ceiling may be at 97 for outside shooting and he’s already at 93, but if he does continue to shoot at 43% or whatever he was at last season for another year and consistently plays about 65 games per, he would approach Korver/Redick level shooting gravity and he’s actual on court value is greater than his absolute rating and he would be on a more than adequate deal.

Ya I think I agree with all that. Hopefully Cam has a nice healthy year, I’m a fan.