All Things Ayton

[Kryptonic]

Yea but Moore's especially bad.

Obviously they haven't ended the trade speculation because they're in talks of some sort. If they weren't entertaining any offers at all they'd shoot it all down with a blanket statement.

Sorry... It's a slow news day and just saw it pop up and thought I'd share. My bad.

Yea, I never know if/what is true with this stuff anymore or if teams even took the time to respond to rumors since they could probably do that all day.

[Carno]

Not that I want to help this mind numbing Groundhog Day of a thread reach 200 but sadly any post I make helps it get there.
It’s clear that no one would be happy with an Ayton for Nurkic swap (even if the money matched).
But, would most be happy if the trade happened if the additional body was OG? Or Scoot?

Who would it take for you to be happy with the trade?

I've been saying that the Suns need a defensive, rebounding, rim-running center and a starting 3 and D wing in return for Ayton. OG and Nurkic is getting close to that. I can almost convince myself. OG is definitely the kind of 3 and D wing I'd like to see, but Nurkic just falls a little short. I still think I'd rather have Ayton.

OG alone is better than Ayton though…just put Nurkic on the bench and start Eubanks. Eubanks is exactly what you described you want at the 5.

OG is not better than Ayton, but its close (today... I still believe that Ayton can get much better). The Suns need Ayton's skill set more than OG's, however. And I guess I should amend my statement to say, "Starting-caliber, defensive, rebounding, rim-running center." I like Eubanks as a backup, but he isn't close to the quality of Ayton. Or Nurkic for that matter.. there is a reason Nurkic started over Eubanks.

[Split T]

Not that I want to help this mind numbing Groundhog Day of a thread reach 200 but sadly any post I make helps it get there.
It’s clear that no one would be happy with an Ayton for Nurkic swap (even if the money matched).
But, would most be happy if the trade happened if the additional body was OG? Or Scoot?

Who would it take for you to be happy with the trade?

I've been saying that the Suns need a defensive, rebounding, rim-running center and a starting 3 and D wing in return for Ayton. OG and Nurkic is getting close to that. I can almost convince myself. OG is definitely the kind of 3 and D wing I'd like to see, but Nurkic just falls a little short. I still think I'd rather have Ayton.

OG alone is better than Ayton though…just put Nurkic on the bench and start Eubanks. Eubanks is exactly what you described you want at the 5.

OG is not better than Ayton, but its close (today... I still believe that Ayton can get much better). The Suns need Ayton's skill set more than OG's, however. And I guess I should amend my statement to say, "Starting-caliber, defensive, rebounding, rim-running center." I like Eubanks as a backup, but he isn't close to the quality of Ayton. Or Nurkic for that matter.. there is a reason Nurkic started over Eubanks.

OG was without question better than Ayton last year. His value is higher. Someone reportedly offered 3 1sts for him. No one is giving us 3 1sts for Ayton. Admittedly it’s hard to compare as they play different positions, and if you believe we need what Ayton offers more, I can’t tell you you’re wrong.

I do disagree though. I think finding what Ayton offers(rim protection, roll man, efficient finisher) is much easier than finding what OG offers(Elite 1-4 defense, good 3 pt shooting, and a touch of on ball ability). He’s a bigger version of Mikal(before the on ball growth during the 2nd half of last season).

The problem I believe though is you’re evaluating Ayton on what you think he can be. I’m evaluating him on what he’s been. His hypothetical ceiling is certainly high…my confidence in him reaching that is nearly zero.

Edit: For the record, I don’t think you’re necessarily wrong for evaluating Ayton on his potential. I just can’t do it anymore.

[Split T]

As for Eubanks…he did start 28 games last year and multiple people were calling for him to move above Nurkic in the starting lineup. In those 28 games he averaged 9 points, 7 boards and 1.6 blocks. He played 25 minutes a game. That’s a 13/10/2.3 pace per 36 minutes. Also 3 assists and a .610 TS%

I don’t think he’d play 36 minutes. But let’s give him the 30 Ayton gets. I’d be thrilled with the 10.8/8.4/2.4/2 on 61% TS if we got that from him over 30 minutes if it meant we also got OG for 30+ minutes a game as our 4th option and primary wing defender. Not to mention we also get Nurkic on the bench to go after 2nd units or to use in key matchups(say against Jokic?).

[ShelC]

Yea but Moore's especially bad.

Obviously they haven't ended the trade speculation because they're in talks of some sort. If they weren't entertaining any offers at all they'd shoot it all down with a blanket statement.

Sorry... It's a slow news day and just saw it pop up and thought I'd share. My bad.

Yea, I never know if/what is true with this stuff anymore or if teams even took the time to respond to rumors since they could probably do that all day.

Nah all good! Not your fault. Mine was just a general response about all that's being written/talked about with the trade rumors. Some of these writers and social accounts act like it's the fans'/media's fault DA is in trade rumors.

[Superbone]

Just sounds like Moore is trying to get in good with Ayton.

[ShelC]

As for Eubanks…he did start 28 games last year and multiple people were calling for him to move above Nurkic in the starting lineup. In those 28 games he averaged 9 points, 7 boards and 1.6 blocks. He played 25 minutes a game. That’s a 13/10/2.3 pace per 36 minutes. Also 3 assists and a .610 TS%

I don’t think he’d play 36 minutes. But let’s give him the 30 Ayton gets. I’d be thrilled with the 10.8/8.4/2.4/2 on 61% TS if we got that from him over 30 minutes if it meant we also got OG for 30+ minutes a game as our 4th option and primary wing defender. Not to mention we also get Nurkic on the bench to go after 2nd units or to use in key matchups(say against Jokic?).

I can't see us trading for Nurk just to have him come off the bench behind his backup from last year. I think we'd start him and just split the minutes with Eubanks and anyone else. Even last year he was only playing 26mpg so it'd be hard to have a $19mil/year backup playing 18-20 mpg. You might get a nice 2-headed monster there at the 5 spot tho and just play it by ear game to game. I just wonder about the strategy in going with the Blazers center rotation from the past 2 years. Maybe they think Vogel can make it work and coach them up defensively better than Stotts and Billups.

[Split T]

They probably would start Nurkic…I just think Eubanks is being underrated. We shouldn’t have been able to get him for the minimum.

Also the Portland C rotation wasn’t their problem…it’s their wing rotation. We’d have a much better wing rotation. Like infinitely better

[Cap]

They probably would start Nurkic…I just think Eubanks is being underrated. We shouldn’t have been able to get him for the minimum.

Also the Portland C rotation wasn’t their problem…it’s their wing rotation. We’d have a much better wing rotation. Like infinitely better

Especially if we add OG.

[JeremyG]

Deandre Ayton, Jusuf Nurkic, Damian Lillard trade rumors need to stop now

I can’t believe I’m actually agreeing with Greg Moore on something.

[JeremyG]

Yea but Moore's especially bad.

Obviously they haven't ended the trade speculation because they're in talks of some sort. If they weren't entertaining any offers at all they'd shoot it all down with a blanket statement.

Some teams might do that. But not James Jones. He prefers silence. So we really can’t read into the silence.

[JeremyG]

I don’t think he’d play 36 minutes. But let’s give him the 30 Ayton gets the 30 Ayton got with a foolish coach.

FIFY.

[Flagrant Fowl]

He didn't get more minutes because he was too tired or lazy to play with the required effort.

[virtual9mm]

I am finding it unbelievable that some of the folks who were most vocal about Ayton as a defensive liability on the perimeter are ok with Nurkic. From what I have seen and what Blazers fans are saying, he's pretty much unplayable in the playoffs because it would be too easy to have guards isolate on him and torch him from the perimeter.

OG and Nurkic might make the situation more palatable. I do wonder if Nurkic might be ok for slowing down Jokic, though. Defensive stats on him are surprisingly good. But...is Nurkic even going to play?

[Split T]

I am finding it unbelievable that some of the folks who were most vocal about Ayton as a defensive liability on the perimeter are ok with Nurkic. From what I have seen and what Blazers fans are saying, he's pretty much unplayable in the playoffs because it would be too easy to have guards isolate on him and torch him from the perimeter.

OG and Nurkic might make the situation more palatable. I do wonder if Nurkic might be ok for slowing down Jokic, though. Defensive stats on him are surprisingly good. But...is Nurkic even going to play?

My problem isn’t with Ayton being a defensive liability on the perimeter, it’s that he took a step backwards as a drop defender and rim protector. The stats say Nurkic defended the post and rim better than Ayton last year. I know Nurkic would be played off the floor in some lineups. I’m completely cool either going Eubanks or even KD at the 5(especially if OG is on the team). It’s still all about what the other piece is for me.

[virtual9mm]

I am finding it unbelievable that some of the folks who were most vocal about Ayton as a defensive liability on the perimeter are ok with Nurkic. From what I have seen and what Blazers fans are saying, he's pretty much unplayable in the playoffs because it would be too easy to have guards isolate on him and torch him from the perimeter.

OG and Nurkic might make the situation more palatable. I do wonder if Nurkic might be ok for slowing down Jokic, though. Defensive stats on him are surprisingly good. But...is Nurkic even going to play?

My problem isn’t with Ayton being a defensive liability on the perimeter, it’s that he took a step backwards as a drop defender and rim protector. The stats say Nurkic defended the post and rim better than Ayton last year. I know Nurkic would be played off the floor in some lineups. I’m completely cool either going Eubanks or even KD at the 5(especially if OG is on the team). It’s still all about what the other piece is for me.

Then it is simple. If you are convinced that Ayton can't get back to form, you can trade him. But the trade has to improve the team and Nurkic simply won't. You're talking about Nurkic not even playing.

[Wally_West]

Interesting

[Split T]

I am finding it unbelievable that some of the folks who were most vocal about Ayton as a defensive liability on the perimeter are ok with Nurkic. From what I have seen and what Blazers fans are saying, he's pretty much unplayable in the playoffs because it would be too easy to have guards isolate on him and torch him from the perimeter.

OG and Nurkic might make the situation more palatable. I do wonder if Nurkic might be ok for slowing down Jokic, though. Defensive stats on him are surprisingly good. But...is Nurkic even going to play?

My problem isn’t with Ayton being a defensive liability on the perimeter, it’s that he took a step backwards as a drop defender and rim protector. The stats say Nurkic defended the post and rim better than Ayton last year. I know Nurkic would be played off the floor in some lineups. I’m completely cool either going Eubanks or even KD at the 5(especially if OG is on the team). It’s still all about what the other piece is for me.

Then it is simple. If you are convinced that Ayton can't get back to form, you can trade him. But the trade has to improve the team and Nurkic simply won't. You're talking about Nurkic not even playing.

Yes that’s why I said it’s about the other piece for me. I wouldn’t trade him for just Nurkic

[Wally_West]

If there’s a possibility of us getting our hands on some dick for Ayton….

[Kryptonic]

Teams evidently feeling pressed to get things done by media day for Dame.