All Things Ayton

[Kryptonic]

This still one of my favorite Suns memories. It never fails to bring a smile to my face.

Was pretty amazing….

[Superbone]

The end of the Ayton promise.

[Aztec Sunsfan]

The end of the Ayton promise.

Moreso, the peak. Funny thing that Ayton's iconic play playing for the Suns... is a dunk.

[Superbone]

I could do a poll but I don't think many would agree that it was an overall roster downgrade. Sure, you could say it was a downgrade at center talent-wise but overall I'd think most would agree it was probably an upgrade adding Little and Allen as well. I haven't seen Little yet in a Suns uniform so we'll see but I did watch Allen as a starter on the best regular season record team in the league. You could also say that Nurk is a better fit for this Suns team at center in that he is content to play the role asked of him.

I did a poll--it was 50/50, at least in the first few days after the trade.

P.S. Let me just point out that this is another example of everyone else trying to turn a thread into a discussion about a certain former center. I was trying to talk about Vogel.

No you didn't. You did a poll on "Would you have done the Ayton trade?" And maybe you did try to talk Vogel but you had to throw that in there, didn't you? You just can't resist and that's the problem.

[JeremyG]

I could do a poll but I don't think many would agree that it was an overall roster downgrade. Sure, you could say it was a downgrade at center talent-wise but overall I'd think most would agree it was probably an upgrade adding Little and Allen as well. I haven't seen Little yet in a Suns uniform so we'll see but I did watch Allen as a starter on the best regular season record team in the league. You could also say that Nurk is a better fit for this Suns team at center in that he is content to play the role asked of him.

I did a poll--it was 50/50, at least in the first few days after the trade.

P.S. Let me just point out that this is another example of everyone else trying to turn a thread into a discussion about a certain former center. I was trying to talk about Vogel.

No you didn't. You did a poll on "Would you have done the Ayton trade?" And maybe you did try to talk Vogel but you had to throw that in there, didn't you? You just can't resist and that's the problem.

It was thrown in there just to remind everyone of why my hopes for a title were now more dependent on Vogel than the talent of the roster. Not to start an Ayton debate.

I doubt if hardly any would have voted no to the trade if they didn't think it was a downgrade, and some who voted yes may have thought it was worth it despite being a downgrade.

[TOO]

Someone should do a poll, is last seasons roster better than where it sits now, because that's all that matters. Take your personal feelings about players out of it, are the Suns better?

[Superbone]

Someone should do a poll, is last seasons roster better than where it sits now, because that's all that matters. Take your personal feelings about players out of it, are the Suns better?

That's a no brainer but Jeremy was only arguing before and after the trade which in my mind is a TOTALLY different question than what he polled on. I think the results would be MUCH different.

[Split T]

I could do a poll but I don't think many would agree that it was an overall roster downgrade. Sure, you could say it was a downgrade at center talent-wise but overall I'd think most would agree it was probably an upgrade adding Little and Allen as well. I haven't seen Little yet in a Suns uniform so we'll see but I did watch Allen as a starter on the best regular season record team in the league. You could also say that Nurk is a better fit for this Suns team at center in that he is content to play the role asked of him.

I did a poll--it was 50/50, at least in the first few days after the trade.

P.S. Let me just point out that this is another example of everyone else trying to turn a thread into a discussion about a certain former center. I was trying to talk about Vogel.

No you didn't. You did a poll on "Would you have done the Ayton trade?" And maybe you did try to talk Vogel but you had to throw that in there, didn't you? You just can't resist and that's the problem.

It was thrown in there just to remind everyone of why my hopes for a title were now more dependent on Vogel than the talent of the roster. Not to start an Ayton debate.

I doubt if hardly any would have voted no to the trade if they didn't think it was a downgrade, and some who voted yes may have thought it was worth it despite being a downgrade.

Vogel is more important than Booker, KD, and Beal in your mind?

Not gonna lie, it kinda feels like you’re establishing an excuse in case we do win the title without a certain someone in the paint.

We did win, but it’s only because of Vogel

[specialsauce]

Someone should do a poll, is last seasons roster better than where it sits now, because that's all that matters. Take your personal feelings about players out of it, are the Suns better?

That's a no brainer but Jeremy was only arguing before and after the trade which in my mind is a TOTALLY different question than what he polled on. I think the results would be MUCH different.

Correct.

I voted NO but only because I felt we could’ve gotten a better haul in addition to Nurkic.

Ask me if I think this team is better as constructed now than before the trade, and the answer is an absolute yes.

[Split T]

What do you think we could have done to get a better haul? I think we definitely could have done better if we traded him last summer or even before that, but we chose not to. Every team in the league knew Ayton was available…there was no better offers or we would have taken it. Dallas was offering THJ and Holmes…

We had no leverage with Ayton. Is what it is, it’s not a great trade if you’re playing 2K, but this is real life. Sometimes the options aren’t what they are. He needed to go and I’m glad we got 3 potential playoff guys. Hard to ask for more out of a guy who didn’t even show up last playoffs(I’m not going to debate this point, yes I know some people think he did in fact show up, I don’t, simple as that).

[JeremyG]

I could do a poll but I don't think many would agree that it was an overall roster downgrade. Sure, you could say it was a downgrade at center talent-wise but overall I'd think most would agree it was probably an upgrade adding Little and Allen as well. I haven't seen Little yet in a Suns uniform so we'll see but I did watch Allen as a starter on the best regular season record team in the league. You could also say that Nurk is a better fit for this Suns team at center in that he is content to play the role asked of him.

I did a poll--it was 50/50, at least in the first few days after the trade.

P.S. Let me just point out that this is another example of everyone else trying to turn a thread into a discussion about a certain former center. I was trying to talk about Vogel.

No you didn't. You did a poll on "Would you have done the Ayton trade?" And maybe you did try to talk Vogel but you had to throw that in there, didn't you? You just can't resist and that's the problem.

It was thrown in there just to remind everyone of why my hopes for a title were now more dependent on Vogel than the talent of the roster. Not to start an Ayton debate.

I doubt if hardly any would have voted no to the trade if they didn't think it was a downgrade, and some who voted yes may have thought it was worth it despite being a downgrade.

Vogel is more important than Booker, KD, and Beal in your mind?

I’m saying that a month ago, the roster was talented enough to where they should win the championship. Now, I do not expect us to win the championship, as I stated when the trade happened. And it’s not just talent—I feel the roster is less balanced also.

In order to win a championship now, with less talent and less balance, it’s going to take a very creative and cohesion-building effort from the coach.

I’m saying Vogel is what gives me any level of hope that we can overcome the fact that, IMO, we no longer have the best roster, like we did a month ago.

Not gonna lie, it kinda feels like you’re establishing an excuse in case we do win the title without a certain someone in the paint.

We did win, but it’s only because of Vogel

I’m still saying I don’t expect us to win. I’ll be happy if I’m wrong.

And what’s your “excuse”? We only won because we got rid of Ayton?

[specialsauce]

Our championship odds improved on that blessed beautiful day we sent out mr diuretic Mr small balls mr missed covid test

[JeremyG]

I remember someone asking recently if Ayton missed a game in the bubble due to missing a Covid test, and I don’t think anyone answered. The answer is no, he was still able to take one in time and he didn’t miss any games in the bubble.

[Split T]

If we win it’s going to be because of a collective effort. I’d never give all the credit or the blame to one individual.

I don’t have any preconceived ideas for why we are going to win or lose. Let’s see what this team even looks like on the court before we start saying they won’t win the championship. It just seems absurd to me that a 4th option who was less than his best in 2 straight playoffs is the difference between winning or losing when we’ve got Book and KD on the team. He’s not moving the needle that much, if at all.

[JeremyG]

It just seems absurd to me that a 4th option who was less than his best in 2 straight playoffs is the difference between winning or losing when we’ve got Book and KD on the team. He’s not moving the needle that much, if at all.

We had Book and KD on the team last year and plenty of fans claimed Ayton’s performance (and/or absence in Game 6) was the difference between winning or losing.

[Split T]

We were not winning that series unless Booker continued to play like a god

[Superbone]

I remember someone asking recently if Ayton missed a game in the bubble due to missing a Covid test, and I don’t think anyone answered. The answer is no, he was still able to take one in time and he didn’t miss any games in the bubble.

I thought that was the case. But not due to lack of trying.

[JeremyG]

Not gonna lie, it kinda feels like you’re establishing an excuse in case we do win the title without a certain someone in the paint.

We did win, but it’s only because of Vogel

With this “excuse” talk, it sounds to me like what you want is, if the Suns win the championship, for me to admit that the trade was the right move.

But if we don’t win the championship are you going to admit that it was the wrong move?

[Split T]

Not gonna lie, it kinda feels like you’re establishing an excuse in case we do win the title without a certain someone in the paint.

We did win, but it’s only because of Vogel

With this “excuse” talk, it sounds to me like what you want is, if the Suns win the championship, for me to admit that the trade was the right move.

But if we don’t win the championship are you going to admit that it was the wrong move?

I just disagree with making definitive statements before we’ve even seen the team on the court.

[ShelC]

He missed the 1st qtr of the game against the Thunder due to the missed test. In the bubble, where players had two jobs - play basketball and get tested daily - DA still managed to fk one of those up. Then Monty had to cover for him saying that even he (Monty) lost track of being tested and almost missed a test (not likely). And for good measure, we were the team that had to win every game just to have a shot at the play-in and couldn't afford any slip ups. Of course, we probably would have been solidly in the playoffs had DA not gotten suspended for 25 games earlier in the season.