Game Day: Thunder (5-4) @ Suns (4-5), Sun 11/12/23

[Kryptonic]

If you can't rely on your best player, do you really want him as your best player?

No shit…. And nobody is going to want him even if we did want to trade him, at least not at the price it costed us.

[ShelC]

Postgame Quotes and Videos

Spoiler: show/hide

[ShelC]

Feels like the 4th qtr stuff is in our head now and maybe there's no confidence/faith in the playcalling/gameplanning. The energy just changes once the 4th starts and we shrink as soon as the other team starts hitting shots. Still too much KD iso. We ran some Beal/KD PnR but it's just not there yet and Beal wasn't 100%. It's just odd that there's more ball movement for 3qtrs and then we just hand it to Beal and KD and say, "go score". We're not initiating thru Nurk, we're not having KD bring the ball up and attack off the dribble. We're doing the opposite of what we do all game. That's not a Book issue, it's a strategic issue. It's the "This is how you're supposed to use superstars in the 4th" kind of philosophy. It's Beal overdribbling looking for a shot while guys stand around and the defense focuses on him, it's KD working to get the ball on a weakside while guys stand around and the defense focuses on him. Adding Book will just give us more of that without changing anything. And it won't be "Well they can't double everyone", it'll be Book trapped trying to make a tough pass and the defense waiting for it or forcing him to pass to Okogie, Goodwin, Nurk etc and denying Beal and KD like last night. Maybe it'll work out, but I just think it's too predictable and takes everyone else out of rhythm without making the other team work.

[JNix]

Not having Booker is an issue and no one disagrees.
But we should not be THIS bad without him.

No spacing, no ball movement. Way too much KD iso in the 4th.
Give the ball to KD and clear out is not a successful offensive philosophy.

I think we can right this fairly easily and we all know teams go throughh streaks. Could see this team going on a 12-15 game winning streak at some point this season but the NBA jus thas a ton of talent and there is not going to be any easy games.

Just feels like we struggle at times to get a bucket, especially in the 4th Q.

Throwing it to Nurk to create is hit or miss. Sometimes he makes a great play but too often it results in turnovers.

[Superbone]

If you can't rely on your best player, do you really want him as your best player?

Even best players get injured. He's been mostly reliable.

[Superbone]

If you can't rely on your best player, do you really want him as your best player?

No shit…. And nobody is going to want him even if we did want to trade him, at least not at the price it costed us.

Our best player is Booker. Sounds like you're talking about somebody else.

[O_Gardino]

I could say a lot of negative stuff, but y'all have said most of it already. It's not a case of missing shots and the other team makes some. We aren't executing on O and we aren't digging in on D. The Suns just lack toughness, identity, and leadership. Book can't be the only one to bring those things.

There's plenty of time to turn this around and still be a great team. But we are going to need the role players to step up and start holding each other accountable on the court. It's ok if we miss some shots when we don't have all of our talent, but it's not ok to take the kind of shots we are taking and to allow the kind of shots we are allowing.

[Superbone]

I could say a lot of negative stuff, but y'all have said most of it already. It's not a case of missing shots and the other team makes some. We aren't executing on O and we aren't digging in on D. The Suns just lack toughness, identity, and leadership. Book can't be the only one to bring those things.

There's plenty of time to turn this around and still be a great team. But we are going to need the role players to step up and start holding each other accountable on the court. It's ok if we miss some shots when we don't have all of our talent, but it's not ok to take the kind of shots we are taking and to allow the kind of shots we are allowing.

We're also not the scrappy team that Vogel has been preaching. 4th quarter defense has got to be better. We're getting outhustled.

[O_Gardino]

I could say a lot of negative stuff, but y'all have said most of it already. It's not a case of missing shots and the other team makes some. We aren't executing on O and we aren't digging in on D. The Suns just lack toughness, identity, and leadership. Book can't be the only one to bring those things.

There's plenty of time to turn this around and still be a great team. But we are going to need the role players to step up and start holding each other accountable on the court. It's ok if we miss some shots when we don't have all of our talent, but it's not ok to take the kind of shots we are taking and to allow the kind of shots we are allowing.

We're also not the scrappy team that Vogel has been preaching. 4th quarter defense has got to be better. We're getting outhustled.

Amen

[Nodack]

Very disappointing. Not the start I was anticipating to this season. The fourth quarter comes and their defense turns into Swiss cheese and their offense becomes non existent. The other teams are probably saying just keep is close going into the fourth quarter and the Suns will choke now. They have some work to do, Booker or not.

[SunsSince92]

I miss Booker.

I kinda miss being the greatest clutch team in league history. Wasn’t that long ago.

Of course, that was when we had Ayton.

It wasn't Ayton. It was having a facilitating PG.

It's both. Just wish we could go back to the roster we had in mid-July.

I’d argue maybe even last February…. Just not a fan of this version of KD we’re getting.

It's becoming increasingly tough to argue with that point of view. The team we had last February would have bowed out to the Nuggets in the playoffs and easily had the same 4-6 record at this point too. I was skeptical of the move at the time, but with hindsight, I do feel like we gave up too much in terms of our future for what could be another dud 'super team'.

Hopefully Book coming back changes everything but I'm not holding my breath at the moment...

[JeremyG]

When's the last time a "super team" actually worked? When KD was 6 years younger?

[Superbone]

I kinda miss being the greatest clutch team in league history. Wasn’t that long ago.

Of course, that was when we had Ayton.

It wasn't Ayton. It was having a facilitating PG.

It's both. Just wish we could go back to the roster we had in mid-July.

I’d argue maybe even last February…. Just not a fan of this version of KD we’re getting.

It's becoming increasingly tough to argue with that point of view. The team we had last February would have bowed out to the Nuggets in the playoffs and easily had the same 4-6 record at this point too. I was skeptical of the move at the time, but with hindsight, I do feel like we gave up too much in terms of our future for what could be another dud 'super team'.

Hopefully Book coming back changes everything but I'm not holding my breath at the moment...

It's going to take a whole lot more than Book coming back to become an elite team. There's a lot of work to be done on every level. I'd be happy if we started with some intensity and hustle. Right now we're way too cool and methodical. We're getting straight outworked. Especially in the fourth quarter.

[Mori Chu]

I keep thinking about our dismal 4th quarter offense, and I think a big part of it is, I don't think KD should bring the ball up the court and initiate the offense. He's a great finisher, but let somebody else initiate. That can be Book when he's back, but when Book is out, the offense should be set up by somebody like Beal or Grayson Allen. I think Allen does a really nice job dribbling and attacking and also finding open guys. I think that'll also save wear-and-tear on KD not having to do quite as much.

[Flagrant Fowl]

I kinda miss being the greatest clutch team in league history. Wasn’t that long ago.

Of course, that was when we had Ayton.

It wasn't Ayton. It was having a facilitating PG.

It's both. Just wish we could go back to the roster we had in mid-July.

I’d argue maybe even last February…. Just not a fan of this version of KD we’re getting.

It's becoming increasingly tough to argue with that point of view. The team we had last February would have bowed out to the Nuggets in the playoffs and easily had the same 4-6 record at this point too. I was skeptical of the move at the time, but with hindsight, I do feel like we gave up too much in terms of our future for what could be another dud 'super team'.

Hopefully Book coming back changes everything but I'm not holding my breath at the moment...

Not sure how much you’ve paid attention to the Nets this season but Mikal looks to have hit his ceiling and Cam has barely played. When he has played, he’s not really done anything besides take shots. I don’t think those two instead of KD would have lead to better results last Spring or this season so far.

[SunsSince92]

It wasn't Ayton. It was having a facilitating PG.

It's both. Just wish we could go back to the roster we had in mid-July.

I’d argue maybe even last February…. Just not a fan of this version of KD we’re getting.

It's becoming increasingly tough to argue with that point of view. The team we had last February would have bowed out to the Nuggets in the playoffs and easily had the same 4-6 record at this point too. I was skeptical of the move at the time, but with hindsight, I do feel like we gave up too much in terms of our future for what could be another dud 'super team'.

Hopefully Book coming back changes everything but I'm not holding my breath at the moment...

Not sure how much you’ve paid attention to the Nets this season but Mikal looks to have hit his ceiling and Cam has barely played. When he has played, he’s not really done anything besides take shots. I don’t think those two instead of KD would have lead to better results last Spring or this season so far.

That's my point, we'd be in no worse position on the floor but arguably a better position off it in terms of draft picks and the average age of our roster.

[SunsSince92]

It wasn't Ayton. It was having a facilitating PG.

It's both. Just wish we could go back to the roster we had in mid-July.

I’d argue maybe even last February…. Just not a fan of this version of KD we’re getting.

It's becoming increasingly tough to argue with that point of view. The team we had last February would have bowed out to the Nuggets in the playoffs and easily had the same 4-6 record at this point too. I was skeptical of the move at the time, but with hindsight, I do feel like we gave up too much in terms of our future for what could be another dud 'super team'.

Hopefully Book coming back changes everything but I'm not holding my breath at the moment...

It's going to take a whole lot more than Book coming back to become an elite team. There's a lot of work to be done on every level. I'd be happy if we started with some intensity and hustle. Right now we're way too cool and methodical. We're getting straight outworked. Especially in the fourth quarter.

I completely agree, hence why I'm not holding my breath that it'll change things. I think we'll be better but I'm not convinced it'll be enough to fill the obvious holes in this team. Only time will tell I guess.

[Flagrant Fowl]

It's both. Just wish we could go back to the roster we had in mid-July.

I’d argue maybe even last February…. Just not a fan of this version of KD we’re getting.

It's becoming increasingly tough to argue with that point of view. The team we had last February would have bowed out to the Nuggets in the playoffs and easily had the same 4-6 record at this point too. I was skeptical of the move at the time, but with hindsight, I do feel like we gave up too much in terms of our future for what could be another dud 'super team'.

Hopefully Book coming back changes everything but I'm not holding my breath at the moment...

Not sure how much you’ve paid attention to the Nets this season but Mikal looks to have hit his ceiling and Cam has barely played. When he has played, he’s not really done anything besides take shots. I don’t think those two instead of KD would have lead to better results last Spring or this season so far.

That's my point, we'd be in no worse position on the floor but arguably a better position off it in terms of draft picks and the average age of our roster.

But I'm saying we probably would be worse and likely in a situation of hearing speculation about Booker's trust in the organization to build a competitive team.

[SunsSince92]

I’d argue maybe even last February…. Just not a fan of this version of KD we’re getting.

It's becoming increasingly tough to argue with that point of view. The team we had last February would have bowed out to the Nuggets in the playoffs and easily had the same 4-6 record at this point too. I was skeptical of the move at the time, but with hindsight, I do feel like we gave up too much in terms of our future for what could be another dud 'super team'.

Hopefully Book coming back changes everything but I'm not holding my breath at the moment...

Not sure how much you’ve paid attention to the Nets this season but Mikal looks to have hit his ceiling and Cam has barely played. When he has played, he’s not really done anything besides take shots. I don’t think those two instead of KD would have lead to better results last Spring or this season so far.

That's my point, we'd be in no worse position on the floor but arguably a better position off it in terms of draft picks and the average age of our roster.

But I'm saying we probably would be worse and likely in a situation of hearing speculation about Booker's trust in the organization to build a competitive team.

That's fair. It's all conjecture at this point as we'll never know how things might have turned out had we not made the trade.

[specialsauce]

There’s reason to be legitimately concerned right now.

I don’t think personnel is the issue. It’s coaching. We have enough talent to be beating most of these teams, as evidenced by us holding a solid lead every game.

Vogel has got to figure out why the fourth comes and we stagnate and get sloppy.