The Suns Main Issues and How to Fix

[Wally_West]

I still think the main problem is Vogel. He’s just not a good fit, a defensive minded coach who is coaching an offensive minded team. It’s the terry porter situation all over again. I don’t think he toxic the way Terry Porter was, Vogel seems like a nice guy but for whatever reason team doesn’t seem to fuck with him and he doesn’t seem to know how push right buttons on this team. It’s time to move on.

Terry Porter it is not. I keep seeing this and shake my head every time. He was absolutely a horrible, horrible coach.

lol, yeah Terry Porter was an awful coach, I mostly comparing that both weren’t the right guy for the job and both weren’t know to be offensive head coaches. Next year with Alvin Gentry we went to the WCF. I think it’s possible for a turnaround like that with a new coach.

[Superbone]

We didn’t really make any wholesale changes though..what did we do summer of 2022? Nothing really, just flirted with KD and upset Crowder. Other than that we brought back the same team and they didn’t look like contenders.

I think there’s an argument that we should have done more and obviously could’ve handled the Crowder situation better, but I still maintain we weren’t going anywhere. CP3 was no longer a star…it was Booker and solid role players. We had a 2nd round ceiling. Are you saying we shouldn’t have traded for KD?

Yes. Not for the haul we gave away.

That’s fair…what would you have done instead? Let’s say Brooklyn held firm on their demands…just rolled with the same team and made no changes at the deadline?

If Brooklyn held firm, I’d have held firm as well. Has to be some give and take. They did all the taking. And I would have definitely made changes at the deadline. I liked what we did this year getting Royce O’Neale. Anything like that would have been fantastic. Help at PF that year would have been a good move. Dallas this year is an excellent example of what we could have done at the trade deadline.

[Split T]

We would’ve had to move players…Crowder the obvious one…PJ Washington could’ve been an interesting add last year…we didn’t have a ton of players though unless you start talking about starters.

[Superbone]

We would’ve had to move players…Crowder the obvious one…PJ Washington could’ve been an interesting add last year…we didn’t have a ton of players though unless you start talking about starters.

I just would have preferred alternatives to giving up the farm for KD. I think it's pretty clear in hindsight. Even at the time, most of us thought we gave up too much.

[Furlanfufi]

I still think the main problem is Vogel. He’s just not a good fit, a defensive minded coach who is coaching an offensive minded team. It’s the terry porter situation all over again. I don’t think he toxic the way Terry Porter was, Vogel seems like a nice guy but for whatever reason team doesn’t seem to fuck with him and he doesn’t seem to know how push right buttons on this team. It’s time to move on.

Terry Porter it is not. I keep seeing this and shake my head every time. He was absolutely a horrible, horrible coach.

lol, yeah Terry Porter was an awful coach, I mostly comparing that both weren’t the right guy for the job and both weren’t know to be offensive head coaches. Next year with Alvin Gentry we went to the WCF. I think it’s possible for a turnaround like that with a new coach.

I completely agree with Wally. Including the feeling when I watch this Suns is exactly the same I had watching Porter's.

[SunsRIt]

They need to stop running the offense through Nurk.

[TOO]

They need to stop running the offense through Nurk.

I think it's neat when Nurk sits and they run the same stuff but through Drew fuckin Ewwbanks

[Mori Chu]

I like Nurkic and Grayson a lot, but maybe the team would have been better if we had swung the DA for Turner and TJ McConnell deal.

[Split T]

I mean I’d love Turner, but that was never an option after Indy gave Ayton that offer sheet.

[Nodack]

I will point out that the playoffs or the play in tournament hasn’t started yet. They are for the most part healthy and that becomes a big factor in the playoffs. I don’t hear any fat lady yet. You develop chemistry and bonds in the trenches of warfare. They went through boot camp. Now they go to war. Fans get excited by good play and winning.

[Superbone]

Turns out this thread was sadly not premature.

Like many others have said, this has probably been the most disappointing season in Suns history. Ishbia came in swinging for the fences but hit a dribbler to the pitcher. We have quickly dismantled a great, home grown team to watch with a lot of heart that went to the Finals three years ago to this disappointing mess we witnessed all season this year.

The Durant trade has turned out to be a huge miscalculation. Gave away way too much for an aging superstar that is not a leader. We hired a coach and large staff that was obviously not a good fit. So disappointing from top to bottom. Let's see how Ishbia gets us out of this fine mess he has gotten us into.

[AmareIsGod]

I knew we were fucked when we hired Fizdale.

[Superbone]

I knew we were fucked when we hired Fizdale.

How's that for data?!

[Vladimir_Taltos]

I will point out that the playoffs or the play in tournament hasn’t started yet. They are for the most part healthy and that becomes a big factor in the playoffs. I don’t hear any fat lady yet. You develop chemistry and bonds in the trenches of warfare. They went through boot camp. Now they go to war. Fans get excited by good play and winning.

Down 0-3? What chemistry? The try to make gunpowder and instead made pop rocks?

[Superbone]

I will point out that the playoffs or the play in tournament hasn’t started yet. They are for the most part healthy and that becomes a big factor in the playoffs. I don’t hear any fat lady yet. You develop chemistry and bonds in the trenches of warfare. They went through boot camp. Now they go to war. Fans get excited by good play and winning.

Down 0-3? What chemistry? The try to make gunpowder and instead made pop rocks?

Did you look at the date of his post, Vlad?

[Vladimir_Taltos]

Meh, k, fair...just annoyed as $#@& with the waste of a season...

[3TheHardaway]

I knew we were fucked when we hired Fizdale.

Hiring him was pathognomonic of the failures of team building. We had a clown car of assistant coaches, partially due to Vogel, partially due to Ishbia not being able to choose between Kevin Young and Frank. Every strength of this team is extreme redundancy in place of balance and completeness:

- 3 "stars" who hunt midrange over driving the paint/3s
- 4 shooting guards 6'5" and under (Book, Beal, GA, EG)
- 4 undersized forwards who cannot or are unwilling to shoot (Royce, Nas, Okogie, Roddy)
- Center rotation with slow footed 7 footers who offer little in terms of rim protection and absent touch on the offensive end

This team needs:
1. Frontcourt size/depth
2. Playmaking
3. Rim protection

I don't think theres a way to make Book/Beal/KD successful unless you balance the lineup with size and length, which we have limited means of acquiring. Book/Beal backcourt is a defensive liability, especially when theres lack of rim deterrence behind them. You really need a true 4 to allow KD to slide to the 3 where he's an effective perimeter defender and offers weakside rim protection. Aaron Gordon would be the prototype, but of players who could actually be available:

- Draymond Green (puke)
- Jared Vanderbilt
- Lebron
- Ben Simmons (puke, but even more)
- Jonathan Issac (probably too thin/small)
- Jerami Grant

We'd still be liable to get eaten alive by Jamal Murray, Steph, SGA, Luka/Kyrie, but at least 1-4 could switch readily.

I don't see an actual avenue to improving the roster/contending unless we were able to find a team willing to take on Brad Beal. I like the guy, but the fit isn't there, and if you surround KD/Booker with a better fitting roster, you can at least imagine having a shot to compete. Trading KD and rolling with Booker/Beal just makes us into the Wizards.

I can't see Nurkic having much trade value, but if there was any way to move on from him, we should absolutely pull the trigger. He certainly had some moments, and perhaps the right coach could optimize his passing skills as an offensive hub, and a true-4 next to him would hide some of his defensive deficiencies, but I just don't see it. Capela/Richards/WCJ/Turner/Poetl/Claxton would all be much better fits, but it's hard to see a way of acquiring most of those guys. Mayble Capela if the Hawks are intent on burning it down. Capela/Hunter is the only way to make salaries work; we cannot aggregate anything with Nurk to make the salaries add up.

Bottom line: we're kind of fucked. Let's see if JJ/Ishbia can unfuck us.

[Superbone]

Meh, k, fair...just annoyed as $#@& with the waste of a season...

Yep, it's very annoying. Especially after you spent your hard earned dollars and the results you got on fan appreciation night. I get it.