Are The Suns Cursed? Book it!

[1tinsoldier]

in the past decade we festered at the bottom of the standings and in recent years -- strings of blowouts and some of the most embarrassing collapses in sports history

why so bad the past decade?
the prior KJ, Barkley, Kidd, Nash eras didn't produce rings but were commendable, impressive, and inspiring

how did we get here?
puzzling, since we got rid of a horrible owner and got one willing to spend.

we got a coach with a championship ring and our starters are three superstars, a center who can rebound (finally), and the nba's best 3 pt shooter

we replaced the whole team that was 2 games from a championship 3 years ago to build around Devin Booker -- and still the collapses!

FOR A DECADE WE'VE BEEN BUILDING AROUND THE WRONG PLAYER -- A ROBIN. INSTEAD OF A BATMAN. a player who falls short of what it takes:

1. below avg bb iq. When he gets angry, he gets sloppy. Turnovers, forced shots. The team went from best 4th quarter and clutch team to worst as soon as Chris Paul was gone. Now we're one of the worst 4th quarter teams in NBA history.

local media made a big deal about his one big game winning shot this season. But their replay reel of game winning shots had to go back to THE BUBBLE for his prior game winner. Meanwhile he takes the vast majority of our clutch shots -- mostly from 3, even when we only need 2 to win.

his quote after his game winner, "i just try to make the shot, whether i'm open or not."

2. often plays point, but his instincts and ball-handling falls short. Especially when defenses tighten up in the 4th.

3. no consistent asset. Some stars can rely on their height, strength, defense or speed EVERY NIGHT. His shot must be on. When it isn't, he hasn't got much to offer. Winning superstars make their teammates better, EVERY NIGHT.

4. poor defense. Statistically, among the worst on the whole roster

Combine those shortcomings with a string of soft coach's who let him call the shots.

i think local fans are starting to wake up to what national NBA fans have known for years. Our super-max player is just a top 15 player who, rightly so, has trouble just making All-Star teams. Why isn't he more popular? He's young and so cute, the hottest superstar model dated him for a year.

doesn't matter if he plays great and the Suns win the next 4 games to advance.

i believe he's a dead end. we must trade him. get back on course. break the curse!

[1tinsoldier]

i should add, that, specifically, the curse is an NBA star that doesn't know their rightful place on a team. And instead of the assets they bring being a blessing, their place prevents the team from putting together the right pieces to win -- in terms of leadership, role-filling, and salary.

Booker is unquestionably a great player and asset, but only in his proper place and role. NBA history is full of players whose ambitions and egos steered their teams off course. They never should have been given the reigns of a franchise. Today players have too much power and strong coaches are becoming extinct.

[Split T]

I agree that Booker is not a true #1…there’s probably only a handful of guys that can be the best player on a championship team(Jokic, Giannis, Luka, Embiid, maybe SGA). Only two of those guys have proved it. I don’t think LeBron, Curry, or KD fall into that category anymore.

That’s not to say it’s impossible to win with anyone else, but you really need to nail the rest of your roster. Tatum in Boston is a perfect example. I don’t think Tatum gets you to contender status by himself…they might win, but it’ll be because the roster is just loaded 1-6. It’s why they’ve also had some playoff struggles at times. Tatum just isn’t a true #1. Booker is like Tatum.

I know we’re all down on just about everyone on this roster, but I don’t think trading Booker is the answer. There just isn’t a good answer.

[The Bobster]

Everyone is available - it's just a matter of what you get in return.

[In2ition]

I don't think this is really debatable. They are definitely cursed.

[SunsSince92]

I agree that Booker is not a true #1…there’s probably only a handful of guys that can be the best player on a championship team(Jokic, Giannis, Luka, Embiid, maybe SGA). Only two of those guys have proved it. I don’t think LeBron, Curry, or KD fall into that category anymore.

That’s not to say it’s impossible to win with anyone else, but you really need to nail the rest of your roster. Tatum in Boston is a perfect example. I don’t think Tatum gets you to contender status by himself…they might win, but it’ll be because the roster is just loaded 1-6. It’s why they’ve also had some playoff struggles at times. Tatum just isn’t a true #1. Booker is like Tatum.

I know we’re all down on just about everyone on this roster, but I don’t think trading Booker is the answer. There just isn’t a good answer.

Agreed although he has been the common denominator through the past 3 post season humiliations so I get why people are happy to move on from him (myself included). Assuming you can't move Beal which seems highly unlikely, there seems little point in having two big contracts that play the same position. If you could trade Book for a serviceable PG/PF combo and some picks then I think you have to consider it.

The alternative is moving KD but I doubt you get the same value back in a trade that you would for Book at this point in their careers. I could be wrong.

[1tinsoldier]

Beal and Book not only play the same position, they also share bad decision making. Last night was a classic example. Book had a great game -- offensively. But in the 4th he started forcing some shots (which got blocked) and started fouling. Beal fouled out. Neither knows how to channel their exuberance into smart basketball. Beal kicks up his defense by reaching for steals and, more often, it frees the shooter (we lost 2 games in the last seconds because of his reaching. Curry's buzzer beater was one).

again. Worst 4th quarter team. Suns were hot. T-wolves were hot. The smart team won.

the real shame is that a strong coach could fix some of Booker and Beal's problems.

[1tinsoldier]

just listened to a half hour of Gambo -- the company guy. Points the finger at everything but the coach and the team's super max player. He never misses an opportunity to call it "Booker's team" until each occurrence of them being humiliated. Gambo is going with the old "size" and "roster" excuses. It's the brain of the Suns that sucks, not their size. They need to either replace Booker with a real floor leader or replace the coach with someone who calls the shots, roles and plays instead of letting the stars dictate. That only worked when the Sun's had a Chris Paul or Steve Nash or Jason Kidd on the court. Or, to a little lesser degree, a Kevin Johnson or Charles Barkley. Hell, even Marbury was a better floor leader.

same goes for any sport. It takes more brains than brawn. If you watched Katlin Clark this year, you saw that it's her bb iq that makes her a great player.

[SunsRIt]

If size was the issue why did Bol Bol only see garbage minutes?

[In2ition]

He weighs less than a small forward.

[TOO]

just listened to a half hour of Gambo -- the company guy. Points the finger at everything but the coach and the team's super max player. He never misses an opportunity to call it "Booker's team" until each occurrence of them being humiliated. Gambo is going with the old "size" and "roster" excuses. It's the brain of the Suns that sucks, not their size. They need to either replace Booker with a real floor leader or replace the coach with someone who calls the shots, roles and plays instead of letting the stars dictate. That only worked when the Sun's had a Chris Paul or Steve Nash or Jason Kidd on the court. Or, to a little lesser degree, a Kevin Johnson or Charles Barkley. Hell, even Marbury was a better floor leader.

same goes for any sport. It takes more brains than brawn. If you watched Katlin Clark this year, you saw that it's her bb iq that makes her a great player.

He was also a very large Vogel supporter before he was hired. Blarg.

[BKinSJC]

just listened to a half hour of Gambo -- the company guy. Points the finger at everything but the coach and the team's super max player. He never misses an opportunity to call it "Booker's team" until each occurrence of them being humiliated. Gambo is going with the old "size" and "roster" excuses. It's the brain of the Suns that sucks, not their size. They need to either replace Booker with a real floor leader or replace the coach with someone who calls the shots, roles and plays instead of letting the stars dictate. That only worked when the Sun's had a Chris Paul or Steve Nash or Jason Kidd on the court. Or, to a little lesser degree, a Kevin Johnson or Charles Barkley. Hell, even Marbury was a better floor leader.

same goes for any sport. It takes more brains than brawn. If you watched Katlin Clark this year, you saw that it's her bb iq that makes her a great player.

He was also a very large Vogel supporter before he was hired. Blarg.

I think media people tend to like Vogel. He's been relentlessly positive for most of the season and is the kind of guy who'll hang around and talk, and he'll never rub a reporter the wrong way or say they're asking a dumb question. Doesn't make him a good coach, just knows how to play that part of the PR game.

[Mori Chu]

If size was the issue why did Bol Bol only see garbage minutes?

I think Coach tried to play Bol but he just got shoved out of the paint on every play. He wasn't very effective in his minutes. I still think we should have played him more, but to be fair he didn't give us much when we did play him.

[Superbone]

If size was the issue why did Bol Bol only see garbage minutes?

I think Coach tried to play Bol but he just got shoved out of the paint on every play. He wasn't very effective in his minutes. I still think we should have played him more, but to be fair he didn't give us much when we did play him.

Yep, and unfortunately, no matter how much time he spends in the weight room, that will never change. The dude would need to eat 10,000 calories a day and take gear.

[Scarecrow33]

It's more likely Phoenix as a sports town is cursed.

I may have to switch to hockey for a few years. At least there's the Coyotes,... in Salt Lake City.

[Split T]

They won’t be the coyotes anymore though

[Cap]

We were cursed during the Colangelo days. Man deserved a championship and would have had one or more if not for a lot of bad luck. That was the origin of the OGW meme. Since then we’ve been making our own misfortune and there is no need to invoke a “curse” to explain our lack of success.

[Superbone]

There are no curses guys. Just ineptitude (KD for everything), mistakes (Joe Johnson/Haliburton), and bad luck (Amare/Diaw suspension). At least we have the one DBacks championship to cling to.

[Mori Chu]

There are no curses guys. Just ineptitude (KD for everything), mistakes (Joe Johnson/Haliburton), and bad luck (Amare/Diaw suspension). At least we have the one DBacks championship to cling to.

And ironically, the DBacks championship was produced in exactly the way Ishbia has done things. Splashy new owner/team, throws a ton of money at it, brings in a bunch of mercenaries for big bucks, buys himself a title. Then almost immediately the team falls apart.

[1tinsoldier]

Bridges being top dog for the Nets was the same curse as Booker being top dog for the Suns. Neither can lead a team to a championship.The Knicks did the right thing by pairing him with Brunson. Actually, the Suns would have been better off trading Booker for Brunson. We'd have a true point guard to compete for a championship with Durant. We don't need 3 scorer's taking turns.

the Mavs failure in the Finals was the latest example of superstars taking turns instead of meshing together

the Suns need to lose Booker and his super-max salary, sooner than later

the same was true regarding dumping Monty, and people will only believe it now that his latest team lost 65 million to get rid of him

the same was true for Igor, despite resistance to that move.

Ayton too

when a player or coach repeatedly shows you what they can and can't do, believe it. Just paying them more money won't make them better.

Monty and Ayton got worse after their raises. Booker just isn't smart enough on the court to give us a return on his super-max salary