Phoenix Suns 2014: Offseason Moves

[INFORMER]

It's about crowding rookies who need run to develop - plain and simple.

You're painting with a broad brush. Henson/Hawes have nothing to do with Goodwin getting minutes. And if the Suns were looking to play Alex len 30 mpg next season, then you're point would be valid.

Also, last time I checked, I didn't have Len riding pine, and I didn't campaign for waiver wire all-stars to be signed and played ahead of Len. That was Hornacek and McDonough. And McDonough already said he'd look to upgrade at the 3, 4, and 5.

And retreads are not entirely >28 years of age - see Blair, DeJuan. Get the drift?

Sorry, you must be using Swingman's Dictionary, because that still doesn't explain your misuse of the word retread.

[INFORMER]

but I know you wanted to damn near give up the farm for players like Austin Daye and Jonas Jerebko simply because you liked their skill set as opposed to how they'd fit on the team and in the system.

I'm not going to suggest acquiring a player if I don't think they fit the system. You're in rare form Swingy.

And your memory is shoddy at best. I never have been a huge Austin Daye guy, though I was mildly interested when it looked like Detroit was ready to give up on him for a bag of peanuts. Jerebko I've always liked, but again I never suggested giving up anything significant for him. I liked him as a draft prospect, and I may have thrown his name in a trade scenario along with other players/picks coming to the Suns, but I never made it a urgent need to pursue and give up significant assets for him.

Or perhaps you just a very loose definition of "give up the farm" and we can add that to the growing list of words/expressions you use inaccurately or self-serving manner.

[ShelC]

Frye's a keeper IMO. He's just not a starter because he's a feast or famine type and that can't be your starting PF. But he's a super-sub.

I also love Plumlee and wouldn't want to see him pushed aside. I don't know if he's a starter, but he could be because he hustles, boards and runs the floor. And there's still some room for improvement. With the right 4, he could be a starting 5 for sure IMO. I'd take him over Hawes for sure. I just like his skillset more.

We're definitely at a sensitive point with this team/roster. We had a great, feel good season with a team like played like a team, almost like a good college program. You don't want to mess with that, but we do need to improve. I wouldn't start swapping players out hoping to upgrade here and there (we saw enough of that during the Nash era). But we could use that player/star that can take us to the next level...the Barkley/Nash type of addition that has that impact. It's a fine line and you don't want to make a deal just to make one. I'd have no problem with us adding a FA, maybe moving up rnough to get a potential star in the draft (love Vonleh) and going into next season as is.

[Brother Marv-El]

Trade Len our 3 draft picks and a Lakers Pick for rights to Love
Do it under the table
like wade in miami

you know they look at this sight for answers cause its the real gold and erybody on pause for mountain time

[SwingMan]

It's about crowding rookies who need run to develop - plain and simple.

You're painting with a broad brush. Henson/Hawes have nothing to do with Goodwin getting minutes. And if the Suns were looking to play Alex len 30 mpg next season, then you're point would be valid.

Also, last time I checked, I didn't have Len riding pine, and I didn't campaign for waiver wire all-stars to be signed and played ahead of Len. That was Hornacek and McDonough. And McDonough already said he'd look to upgrade at the 3, 4, and 5.

And retreads are not entirely >28 years of age - see Blair, DeJuan. Get the drift?

Sorry, you must be using Swingman's Dictionary, because that still doesn't explain your misuse of the word retread.

My definition of a retread is a lateral move for a (role) player who's reached his ceiling - i.e. more of the same without getting better. Exactly how is that a misuse of the word?

Hawes/Henson fits in there & they'd make us worse, IMO.

[SwingMan]

but I know you wanted to damn near give up the farm for players like Austin Daye and Jonas Jerebko simply because you liked their skill set as opposed to how they'd fit on the team and in the system.

I'm not going to suggest acquiring a player if I don't think they fit the system. You're in rare form Swingy.

And your memory is shoddy at best. I never have been a huge Austin Daye guy, though I was mildly interested when it looked like Detroit was ready to give up on him for a bag of peanuts. Jerebko I've always liked, but again I never suggested giving up anything significant for him. I liked him as a draft prospect, and I may have thrown his name in a trade scenario along with other players/picks coming to the Suns, but I never made it a urgent need to pursue and give up significant assets for him.

Or perhaps you just a very loose definition of "give up the farm" and we can add that to the growing list of words/expressions you use inaccurately or self-serving manner.

Not so much Daye, but you pushed Jerebko & Terrence Williams like there was no tomorrow, posting a multitude (seemingly endless, at one point - it went for years before Williams arrived front & center in Houston and bombed) of scenarios concerning how to get them - especially Williams, who you were just as bad as I was with Nick Collison in 2003, main difference being I was pushing strictly for the draft choice, not touching/gutting the roster to get him.

Same goes for Bennett, whom I'm on record as saying was never worth #1 overall. Matter of fact, I think that surprised everyone not named Danny Ferry.

[INFORMER]

Frye's a keeper IMO. He's just not a starter because he's a feast or famine type and that can't be your starting PF. But he's a super-sub.

I certainly don't think he has to go, but I'm still willing to entertain trying to upgrade from him. So who is your starting power forward, and if he's coming off the bench, what happens to Markieff? Or if you plan on using him as a 5 and are so attached to Plumlee, then what happens to Len?

With the right 4, he could be a starting 5 for sure IMO. I'd take him over Hawes for sure. I just like his skillset more.

Fair enough. Although again, it's not really accurate to compare the two. Hawes would be brought here to do what Channing does, and Henson would be brought here to do what Plumlee does. It's just believe each of those guys can do even better than what we have.

I wouldn't start swapping players out hoping to upgrade here and there (we saw enough of that during the Nash era).

That allusion doesn't really fit. It's one thing to be hesitant about tampering with a 60-win team, it's another to be gun shy with a team that missed the playoffs.

[INFORMER]

Not so much Daye, but you pushed Jerebko & Terrence Williams like there was no tomorrow, posting a multitude (seemingly endless, at one point - it went for years before Williams arrived front & center in Houston and bombed) of scenarios concerning how to get them - especially Williams, who you were just as bad as I was with Nick Collison in 2003, main difference being I was pushing strictly for the draft choice, not touching/gutting the roster to get him.

Swing, you're dead wrong about Jerebko. Funny thing Terence Williams, an NBA GM who is highly regarded gave up more for him than I ever suggested.

Your poor memory aside, what is the freaking point of all this? Does being wrong about Terrence Williams mean I forfeit the right to make suggestions on who to pursue? Does being wrong about Terrence Williams mean I'm always going to be wrong?

And if we're playing this game of digging up the past and throwing it in people's faces, how about we start talking about the things I've gotten right. It ain't a short list. Or is that not on your agenda because it would mean being fair and accurate?

[Ring_Wanted]

Frye's a keeper IMO. He's just not a starter because he's a feast or famine type and that can't be your starting PF. But he's a super-sub.

That's where I stand too, but a lot will depend on what Frye does with his option. If he took a discount in exchange for long term security, I'd make him a keeper, in the same mold Nick Collison and the Thunder, but if he takes his $6.8M he is a trading chip and his status on the Suns becomes much more precarious.

I also love Plumlee and wouldn't want to see him pushed aside. I don't know if he's a starter, but he could be because he hustles, boards and runs the floor. And there's still some room for improvement. With the right 4, he could be a starting 5 for sure IMO. I'd take him over Hawes for sure. I just like his skillset more.

Miles is another guy who dropped a lot after January, but I was very pleased with what I saw until then. He really shined protecting the rim and moving around on offense, and his fatigue was a key reason as to why our defense was so poor the second half of the season.

People like to point at Hibbert's 'verticality' and knack for disrupting penetrators without fouling, and it's clear that Miles has learned from him. I want to build on that, because a mix of his athleticism and fundamental defense is not easy to have. If he also learns to take advantage of his footwork in the post and gets an accurate hook, that's easily a double double with very good defense even without any resemblance of a midrange jump shot.

Considering that he makes peanuts as a #26 pick, I'd invest heavily on developing him instead of looking for a substitute like Henson.

We ... played like a team ... You don't want to mess with that, but we do need to improve. I wouldn't start swapping players out hoping to upgrade here and there (we saw enough of that during the Nash era).

Absolutely agree.

Obviously, the 13-14 team won't be back intact, it never does, but I believe we have a number of strenghts. Backcourt, bench, chemistry and hustle (when the players have the legs for it). The two biggest holes are a SF who can create and a real two way big man, and hopefully they are addressed in a satisfactory manner over the offseason.

[SwingMan]

Not so much Daye, but you pushed Jerebko & Terrence Williams like there was no tomorrow, posting a multitude (seemingly endless, at one point - it went for years before Williams arrived front & center in Houston and bombed) of scenarios concerning how to get them - especially Williams, who you were just as bad as I was with Nick Collison in 2003, main difference being I was pushing strictly for the draft choice, not touching/gutting the roster to get him.

Swing, you're dead wrong about Jerebko. Funny thing Terence Williams, an NBA GM who is highly regarded gave up more for him than I ever suggested.

Your poor memory aside, what is the freaking point of all this? Does being wrong about Terrence Williams mean I forfeit the right to make suggestions on who to pursue? Does being wrong about Terrence Williams mean I'm always going to be wrong?

And if we're playing this game of digging up the past and throwing it in people's faces, how about we start talking about the things I've gotten right. It ain't a short list. Or is that not on your agenda because it would mean being fair and accurate?

Just proving my point, is all - I am, however, grateful that there hasn't been any priggish, one-line replies or eyerolls thus far.

Again - all I ask is for the scenarios to be realistic and concern actually improving the roster as opposed to proposing lateral and/or regressive rosterbation. And there's at least a couple more people who agree with that sentiment.

And, keep one thing in mind when referring to Hawes: Tom Gugliotta was skilled, too.

[Sunsfan4life]

Not a Hawes guy. I think he's soft. He did perform pretty well here in Philly though, but then again so is Henry Sims (That roster is so miserable). He's a backup big IMO.

Henson is interesting. He always seems on the verge of putting it all together and teases with stat sheet stuffing lines for stretches, but then suffers some sort of injury. Larry Drew's rotations were a mess this yr and I think they hurt him as well. They would have like 8 active guys and he would still only play like 16-20 mins at times.

[Sunsfan4life]

Not too versed in 2nd round prospects but I like this kid out off LSU, O'Bryant, and of course my homie Poythress but he may be going back to school.

I like Deandre Kane, Javon McCrea, Alex Kirk, DJ Covington, Joe Harris, and Lamar Patterson.

[/quote]


I like Kane, he is athletically a freak. I still like Semaji Christon He was projected by some to be a mid-1st rd pick before the season started and didn't have the best yr, but if he wounds up in the right situation I think he'll make it.

[INFORMER]

Again - all I ask is for the scenarios to be realistic and concern actually improving the roster as opposed to proposing lateral and/or regressive rosterbation. And there's at least a couple more people who agree with that sentiment.

If you think it's a lateral move, fine. But you're acting like I sat around and said to myself, "Self, the Suns need to make a lateral move. Let me come up with some scenarios." I don't think acquiring those two guys is a lateral move. You don't have to agree with me, but I shouldn't be chastised for voicing my opinion either.

And your throwing rosterbation at me when I didn't even suggest a scenario. All I said is that I would like that combo as our starting frontcourt. Especially since we don't have to trade anyone to get Spencer Hawes; he's a free agent. It's two freaking players. Can you say overreaction?

Did you notice that you and Shel essentially have the same take, that my idea is not a good one? Yet the exchange between Shel and I is much, much different than the exchange between me and you. Why? Because his response was devoid of the typical crassness and assailing nature that seems to always color your posts whenever you read something you don't like.

Putting that "your guys" "wet dream" "expense of the team" crap on me was weak, unnecessary, and infantile. I think I've been around long enough to get more respect than that.

[SwingMan]

Again - all I ask is for the scenarios to be realistic and concern actually improving the roster as opposed to proposing lateral and/or regressive rosterbation. And there's at least a couple more people who agree with that sentiment.

If you think it's a lateral move, fine. But you're acting like I sat around and said to myself, "Self, the Suns need to make a lateral move. Let me come up with some scenarios." I don't think acquiring those two guys is a lateral move. You don't have to agree with me, but I shouldn't be chastised for voicing my opinion either.

And your throwing rosterbation at me when I didn't even suggest a scenario. All I said is that I would like that combo as our starting frontcourt. Especially since we don't have to trade anyone to get Spencer Hawes; he's a free agent. It's two freaking players. Can you say overreaction?

Did you notice that you and Shel essentially have the same take, that my idea is not a good one? Yet the exchange between Shel and I is much, much different than the exchange between me and you. Why? Because his response was devoid of the typical crassness and assailing nature that seems to always color your posts whenever you read something you don't like.

Putting that "your guys" "wet dream" "expense of the team" crap on me was weak, unnecessary, and infantile. I think I've been around long enough to get more respect than that.

Oh bite me, INF - I've been around longer & don't get half the respect.

[ShelC]

It's one thing to be hesitant about tampering with a 60-win team, it's another to be gun shy with a team that missed the playoffs.

...just missed the playoffs. If Bledsoe's healthy, who knows what happens.

We were almost a 50 win team out of nowhere so obviously something is going right. Keeping guys in place, familiar with the system and each other will lead to more momentum next year. Don't discount improvement from within...ie, a healthy Bledsoe, an improved Plumlee (who can hopefully sustain an 80 game season), an improved Goodwin, a wildcard in Len, up to 3 draft picks. There's not a big need to upgrade marginally. If we can land that star, as McD has stated he wants to do, then by all means. But guys like Henson and Hawes are lateral moves IMO.

I certainly don't think he has to go, but I'm still willing to entertain trying to upgrade from him. So who is your starting power forward, and if he's coming off the bench, what happens to Markieff? Or if you plan on using him as a 5 and are so attached to Plumlee, then what happens to Len?

I'd love to draft a starting PF if we can move up or try and trade for one if one becomes available. I don't really care about Markeiff. I like him and all, but I don't think he's a long term guy unless Frye leaves and he becomes the backup stretch 4. I just don't see him, Marcus, Channing all here sharing minutes in the frontcourt. I think Plumlee becomes a backup 4/5 behind a starting 4 and, if things work out, Len develops and becomes our starting center. The whole frontcourt needs to be shaken out. Not knowing what we have in Len makes it tough. I think Plums, with a ful year under his belt now, won't hit the wall like he did and can be relied upon as a defensive, hustling big capable of 28-30minutes a night.

[SwingMan]

It's one thing to be hesitant about tampering with a 60-win team, it's another to be gun shy with a team that missed the playoffs.

...just missed that playoffs. If Bledsoe's healthy, who knows what happens.

We were almost a 50 win team out of nowhere so obviously something is going right. Keeping guys in place, familiar with the system and each other will lead to more momentum next year. Don't discount improvement from within...ie, a healthy Bledsoe, an improved Plumlee (who can hopefully sustain an 80 game season), an improved Goodwin, a wildcard in Len, up to 3 draft picks. There's not a big need to upgrade marginally. If we can land that star, as McD has stated he wants to do, then by all means. But guys like Henson and Hawes are lateral moves IMO.

I certainly don't think he has to go, but I'm still willing to entertain trying to upgrade from him. So who is your starting power forward, and if he's coming off the bench, what happens to Markieff? Or if you plan on using him as a 5 and are so attached to Plumlee, then what happens to Len?

I'd love to draft a starting PF if we can move up or try and trade for one if one becomes available. I don't really care about Markeiff. I like him and all, but I don't think he's a long term guy unless Frye leaves and he becomes the backup stretch 4. I just don't see him, Marcus, Channing all here sharing minutes in the frontcourt. I think Plumlee becomes a backup 4/5 behind a starting 4 and, if things work out, Len develops and becomes our starting center. The whole frontcourt needs to be shaken out. Not knowing what we have in Len makes it tough. I think Plums, with a ful year under his belt now, won't hit the wall like he did and can be relied upon as a defensive, hustling big work 28-30minutes a night.

I was really down on Markieff at the beginning of the season, but he's developed into a key player for us and, IMO, along with Marcus, needs to be here to anchor the bench. We definitely need a starting 4 if, for nothing else, than to keep Markieff in the role he thrives at.

[Ring_Wanted]

The Morrii have become real contributors, and this season couldn't have been the same without them, but this is the same problem over and over. Somebody will have to go.

[ShelC]

I know they came up big for us and contributed, but what's their real upside and potential? I'm sure they can be OK as bench guys, but then Frye has to go. I don't care either way, i just don't feel like they're indispensable.

[Ring_Wanted]

You mean like they are not, right? That's what I believe anyway. Kieff is not a post threat and is quite bad defensively. Marcus can handle a little and makes some threes. Both have a nice midrange game. But I think they are the ones who sould be used to upgrade the talent level. In my opinion they are prime candidates for a two for one type of move.

[TOO]

I think Markieff still has legitimate upside as a starter. I could see 18/8/3 outta him as a starter next year if we go that route. He'll never be a defensive force, but he can shoot it, post it, pass it, and even put it on the floor some offensively. He's only 24. Green gets more love than this guy, and I dont get it at all. At worst Kieff has developed in to a very good bench 4.