2017 Suns NBA Draft (4th, 32nd, 54th)

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Flagrant Fowl
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Re: 2017 Suns NBA Draft (4th, 32nd, 54th)

Post by Flagrant Fowl »

Split T wrote:It's definitely not perfect, just a simple way to try and see who fits our current makeup the best. Although, even with your method, Jackson is first or 2nd in every category. Only things I'd change from your rankings is shooting ability( I think they are all about the same right now) and defense. Isaac is better than Tatum.
I think Jackson and Isaac have more "home run" potential than Tatum, which makes me lean towards them a bit. But we just used two top 8 picks on that same type of potential last year, so I'd be more inclined to take the safest bet with Tatum.

I think Tatum has the highest floor right now because his game is the most polished and he relies on athleticism to succeed less than the other two. As we've seen too many times to count, athleticism can be amazing if it's maintained, but if it's lost early due to injury or something else we're looking at a bench rotation player taken at number 4.
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Split T
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Re: 2017 Suns NBA Draft (4th, 32nd, 54th)

Post by Split T »

That's pretty fair, although I think Jackson is pretty safe. He may not be a superstar, but I don't really see him failing. Isaac definitely falls into the risky category.

The biggest thing I can't get past with Tatum is his biggest NBA ready skill is his scoring ability. Not saying that's a bad thing to have, but that's literally the only skill that booker and Warren both have. He just doesn't seem like a great fit with either to me. I think at the very least we'd have to move Warren if we draft Tatum.

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Re: 2017 Suns NBA Draft (4th, 32nd, 54th)

Post by Wormwood »

I'd trade back, and take Isaac if I could. Home run potential, and my insider in the valley is really high on him. Last time he liked a guy this much was Russel Westbrook.

Jackson is hugely risky as well. Domestic abusers often end up in very, very bad places, and put teams in terrible positions (a la Jerrod Mustaf, Jason Kidd and the french fries).

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Re: 2017 Suns NBA Draft (4th, 32nd, 54th)

Post by Wormwood »

ShelC wrote:FT shooting is usually an indicator of one's ability to shoot. Even if they can't hit the 3 in college, but shoot in the 70s+ from the line, the form and consistency is there. Jackson's form is shaky and he moved his hand to the left side of his head when he shoots. He shoots well in rhythm, but I have my doubts about his ability to be a consistent perimeter threat.
Yeah. You nailed my other big problem with Jackson. We're a terrible 3 point shooting team, and there are reasons to believe Jackson is unlikely to grow into being a good 3 point shooter.

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Re: 2017 Suns NBA Draft (4th, 32nd, 54th)

Post by Flagrant Fowl »

Split T wrote: I think at the very least we'd have to move Warren if we draft Tatum.
I think that's getting way too far ahead. We don't have another wing player besides Warren and Booker, so that's why so many have us projected to take Tatum or Jackson. I get that it would be nice to add some athleticism on the wing, but I wouldn't do it if I had to sacrifice scoring ability and size.

I'd actually be more worried about taking Isaac because we already have Chriss and Bender (not to mention Len). That's a lot of young guys at the same positions who need a lot of time to develop. It's very possible one would get shut out of playing time and traded for less than their value, ala Isaiah Thomas.
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Split T
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Re: 2017 Suns NBA Draft (4th, 32nd, 54th)

Post by Split T »

I think the difference is Warren booker and Tatum are all ready for 30+ minutes a game. I don't know how you play all 3 when none of them defend right now. Jackson can defend and he's not sacrificing size or scoring ability. He's not as natural a scorer as Tatum, but he can score.

With bender, Chriss, Isaac, you're looking at development. None of those guys are going to play 30 minutes a game next year. Although I do agree it's a bit of a log jam, still have more time to figure that one out though.

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Re: 2017 Suns NBA Draft (4th, 32nd, 54th)

Post by Flagrant Fowl »

Split T wrote:I think the difference is Warren booker and Tatum are all ready for 30+ minutes a game.
Well there's 96 minutes in a game between the two positions. 8-)
Split T wrote:I don't know how you play all 3 when none of them defend right now.
Oh, yeah, that could be a problem. Is Jackson that much of a better defender than Tatum though?
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Re: 2017 Suns NBA Draft (4th, 32nd, 54th)

Post by Split T »

At this point I think so. Tatum looks like he can turn into a good defender though, but we'll see I guess.

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Re: 2017 Suns NBA Draft (4th, 32nd, 54th)

Post by O_Gardino »

Superbone wrote:
ShelC wrote:I nearly punched my monitor when I saw those quotes from Watson.
So players' character doesn't mean anything to you guys? Did we learn nothing from the Morris bros? I'd think we would want to factor it in there. Jackson seems like the best fit but his past issues do give me pause. I'd hope we'd vet him really well. I'm glad Booker is going to be talking to these guys.
I don't know the details about Jackson, of course, but anger and drinking are the same character flaws Raja Bell and PJ Tucker had. I'm not worried unless it's a recurring issue that he doesn't want to work on. I mean, I wouldn't marry him, but I would play on his team.
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Re: 2017 Suns NBA Draft (4th, 32nd, 54th)

Post by O_Gardino »

Jackson: Highest BBall IQ of the three. That's why he can pass and defend, and that's why he will be an effective scorer, even if he doesn't become a great shooter. Very good athlete.
Tatum: Great size. His one and only skill is driving into contact and finishing though the foul. That's a great skill, and if he can do that in the NBA, he will be valuable. Watch his highlights and you see him finish a ton of tough shots. My worry is that he doesn't seem to have taken any easy shots in college. Why is every shot contested? He's a gamble because he may lack the bball IQ to beat NBA players and coaches.
Isaac: Best catch and shoot guy among these three. Very comfortable playing off others. Best rebounder and shot blocker. Best ability to play big. No chance he will be a star. Will have a simple role on offense. May not become the defender you would hope for.
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Re: 2017 Suns NBA Draft (4th, 32nd, 54th)

Post by In2ition »

Best athlete, best passer, best defender, and best bballiq, so I would go Jackson and try to get him a great shooting Coach.
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Re: 2017 Suns NBA Draft (4th, 32nd, 54th)

Post by Indy »

Wormwood wrote:
Jackson is hugely risky as well. Domestic abusers often end up in very, very bad places, and put teams in terrible positions (a la Jerrod Mustaf, Jason Kidd and the french fries).
Besides being horrible people.

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Re: 2017 Suns NBA Draft (4th, 32nd, 54th)

Post by Superbone »

O_Gardino wrote:
Superbone wrote:
ShelC wrote:I nearly punched my monitor when I saw those quotes from Watson.
So players' character doesn't mean anything to you guys? Did we learn nothing from the Morris bros? I'd think we would want to factor it in there. Jackson seems like the best fit but his past issues do give me pause. I'd hope we'd vet him really well. I'm glad Booker is going to be talking to these guys.
I don't know the details about Jackson, of course, but anger and drinking are the same character flaws Raja Bell and PJ Tucker had. I'm not worried unless it's a recurring issue that he doesn't want to work on. I mean, I wouldn't marry him, but I would play on his team.
Ah, so he must therefore be a combination of Bell and Tucker basketballwise. Got it. ;)
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Re: 2017 Suns NBA Draft (4th, 32nd, 54th)

Post by ShelC »

Character is huge obviously, I just hate how Watson seems to get on his pedestal when it comes to that sort of thing. We're not passing up on talent to take a really nice guy who's a really hard worker. And while Jackson does have a red flag, he's an 18yr old. Do your background checks, due diligence, all the stuff you're paid to do and make an assessment. 18yr olds make a mistake. If he's got a legit substance abuse problem or a history of violence towards women, then he'll drop down in the draft accordingly.

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Re: 2017 Suns NBA Draft (4th, 32nd, 54th)

Post by ShelC »

Speaking of Watson, I just found our new coach.

https://www.ispot.tv/ad/wIy7/ibm-watson ... basketball

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Re: 2017 Suns NBA Draft (4th, 32nd, 54th)

Post by Indy »

O_Gardino wrote:Jackson: Highest BBall IQ of the three. That's why he can pass and defend, and that's why he will be an effective scorer, even if he doesn't become a great shooter. Very good athlete.
Tatum: Great size. His one and only skill is driving into contact and finishing though the foul. That's a great skill, and if he can do that in the NBA, he will be valuable. Watch his highlights and you see him finish a ton of tough shots. My worry is that he doesn't seem to have taken any easy shots in college. Why is every shot contested? He's a gamble because he may lack the bball IQ to beat NBA players and coaches.
Isaac: Best catch and shoot guy among these three. Very comfortable playing off others. Best rebounder and shot blocker. Best ability to play big. No chance he will be a star. Will have a simple role on offense. May not become the defender you would hope for.
I just started researching these guys since I don't watch college ball. From what I have seen/listened too so far, I think Isaac is the best fit for us.

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Re: 2017 Suns NBA Draft (4th, 32nd, 54th)

Post by ShelC »

How so? I think he projects as a 4 and we have (essentially) 2 of those already.

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Re: 2017 Suns NBA Draft (4th, 32nd, 54th)

Post by JCSunsfan »

Split T wrote:At this point I think so. Tatum looks like he can turn into a good defender though, but we'll see I guess.
I think the choice will be Tatum or Isaac. I was leaning Isaac until I read/watched this. I think Isaac's defense is overestimated. Tatum makes him look slow and slow to react. I am not sure the defensive difference between the two is that great except that Isaac is 6-11. Judge for yourself.

http://fansided.com/2017/03/02/jayson-t ... breakdown/

I would take Jackson over both, but I am not considering the off-the-court stuff at all. I just don't know enough about it to factor it. Private interviews and background checks will be more of a team thing.

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Re: 2017 Suns NBA Draft (4th, 32nd, 54th)

Post by JustWinBaby »

ShelC wrote:Character is huge obviously, I just hate how Watson seems to get on his pedestal when it comes to that sort of thing. We're not passing up on talent to take a really nice guy who's a really hard worker. And while Jackson does have a red flag, he's an 18yr old. Do your background checks, due diligence, all the stuff you're paid to do and make an assessment. 18yr olds make a mistake. If he's got a legit substance abuse problem or a history of violence towards women, then he'll drop down in the draft accordingly.
In today's AZ Republic Watson was talking about character as being a big part in their decision. He pointed out that Bledsoe and Booker were high character guys. I was not surprised that he mentioned Booker but Bledsoe kind of surprised me. I don't of anything he has done wrong but I am not aware of any really good things he has done off the court. He seems to be a quiet guy that has done a good job of staying our of trouble. On the other hand Booker appears almost too good to be true. There appears to be real concerns about Jackson's character.

I am on the side of drafting another big to be the replacement for Len's minutes. Issac may not be a legit big but I think he could be big enough in today's NBA. I also am on the Markkanen train. I would not mind either of them being picked at number 4. I like the idea of a front line after Chandler retires of Markkanen/Issac, Bender and Chriss. Extremely athletic with the ability to do multiple things. Quite frankly anyone I am all in on anyone that makes it easier not to resign Alex Len to a large contract.

I can see the need for a wing but we do have Warren which at one point was the golden boy. Why not pick up a mid level free agent wing and give Warren the starting job, at least for next year?
I wanted Monty as our coach since D'Antoni left town. Nice choice James Jones.

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Re: 2017 Suns NBA Draft (4th, 32nd, 54th)

Post by Split T »

I don't think we need to worry about bringing Len back. I think he's gone.

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