Suns pursuing free agent Blake Griffin

[jonh]

What are the odds that he would take a contract with max money, but have specific CYA health clauses?

He might not accept it for other cities, but not all NBA cities are on the Mount Rushmore for basketball.

[jonh]

Also, he once pummeled his good friend/the Clippers trainer in the face, breaking his hand in the process. Using Wormwood math, that means he'll likely mow down 4-7 hitchhikers with his Range Rover per year going forward.

100/10.

There is a shooting joke here that I almost posted 2 or 3 times, but could not figure out a way to not have it be incredibly inappropriate.

[Split T]

4. Right now, in this era of the NBA, big men don't elevate teams. How many bigs are stars on teams that drafted them, then go to another team and elevate that team? Please name them. I'm going to say Millsap and that's the only one I can think of. Bosh moved and was worse. Love moved and was worse. Aldridge moved and didn't amount to much on that squad. Amare moved and was worse. I'm sorry, but bigs aren't how you win right now. If Blake comes here, we are going to be looking at 15 points, 8 rebounds, and 3 assists. I don't want to spend max money for that.

Kevin Durant?
Lebron James (SF/PF)

To me, those 2 names are all you need, right? Not saying that we should sign him, especially because of Blake's particular injury history and attitude but I am not sure if the best argument is that the movement of big men don't matter.

Good point, I was gonna mention Lebron but forgot. I think the point he was making is that guards are more important in today's NBA. However, I would change that to play maker, shot creators, or whatever you want to call it. We're entering a new era of positionless basketball and just because someone is 6'10 doesn't mean they can't create offense.

I think it's nearly impossible to succeed if your best player can't create offense for others. There is a reason super talents like AD, KAT, and Cousins haven't had any team success. They can create their own offense and finish what others created, but they don't create offense for others. That's where big men like Antetekounmpo, Draymond, Lebron, Durant are different. Blake falls more into this group than the first group. He's great with the ball in his hands, he can handle and pass like a guard.

[jonh]

4. Right now, in this era of the NBA, big men don't elevate teams. How many bigs are stars on teams that drafted them, then go to another team and elevate that team? Please name them. I'm going to say Millsap and that's the only one I can think of. Bosh moved and was worse. Love moved and was worse. Aldridge moved and didn't amount to much on that squad. Amare moved and was worse. I'm sorry, but bigs aren't how you win right now. If Blake comes here, we are going to be looking at 15 points, 8 rebounds, and 3 assists. I don't want to spend max money for that.

Kevin Durant?
Lebron James (SF/PF)

To me, those 2 names are all you need, right? Not saying that we should sign him, especially because of Blake's particular injury history and attitude but I am not sure if the best argument is that the movement of big men don't matter.

Good point, I was gonna mention Lebron but forgot. I think the point he was making is that guards are more important in today's NBA. However, I would change that to play maker, shot creators, or whatever you want to call it. We're entering a new era of positionless basketball and just because someone is 6'10 doesn't mean they can't create offense.

I think it's nearly impossible to succeed if your best player can't create offense for others. There is a reason super talents like AD, KAT, and Cousins haven't had any team success. They can create their own offense and finish what others created, but they don't create offense for others. That's where big men like Antetekounmpo, Draymond, Lebron, Durant are different. Blake falls more into this group than the first group. He's great with the ball in his hands, he can handle and pass like a guard.

I agree--I really like his passing ability.

I have mixed feelings about Blake coming in. One the one hand, it absolutely boosts the immediate potential of our team, on the other hand, I struggle to see how this situation really ends well. If Blake plays poorly, we have overpaid for an aging free agent, and have less flexibility in future moves. If Blake plays well, both Chriss and Bender are going to really struggle to find consistent, meaningful playing time over the next 4 seasons. Im fine for them to not play as much this next year, but what about the next 3 years after that? That is either a long time for two high draft picks to be back-ups, or we are paying Blake 30 million to come off the bench for the last 2 years of his contract.

It just seems messy, and I think Im tired of messy.

[JCSunsfan]

One interesting idea, if we do sign Griffin, would you make a play for PG13? What would we have to give up? Warren and the Miami picks? Would we have to include Bender?

Bled/Booker/PG13/Griffin/Chandler
Ulis/Reed/Jackson/Bender/Chriss

We'd have a right now lineup and a bench unit of the future.

No, I would not. I think Jackson/Warren are just find in the SF role. The area I am uncomfortable with on that team is pg. But Griffin and Jackson are both excellent passers. I just wonder if the ball would ever actually get down low.

[In2ition]

It's a balancing act right now. How do you answer all the questions?
How do you continue development, and also expedite it without getting into a rut of losing?

How do you get to the playoffs soon enough to encourage a culture of winning and start the contending process without stunting the growth "ANY" of the young guys you think could be special down the road?

How much young talent do you have on the team, before it's detrimental to winning and building a winning culture?

How many more "talented" young players and how many more years of losing will it take before the team turns the corner?

How long before you use the cap space to bring in a veteran to bridge the gap and right the ship?

The Suns are going to have to make a decision on Len, Williams and even a lesser extent about Warren this summer, when does the cap space dry up when giving these guys extension money and what is the window for being in the FA market for a difference maker?

What's the plan? Who do you think the Suns are targeting to be a contender by 2020, not waiting until 2022(which it feels some of you are thinking)?

[O_Gardino]

It's a balancing act right now. How do you answer all the questions?
How do you continue development, and also expedite it without getting into a rut of losing?

How do you get to the playoffs soon enough to encourage a culture of winning and start the contending process without stunting the growth "ANY" of the young guys you think could be special down the road?

How much young talent do you have on the team, before it's detrimental to winning and building a winning culture?

How many more "talented" young players and how many more years of losing will it take before the team turns the corner?

How long before you use the cap space to bring in a veteran to bridge the gap and right the ship?

The Suns are going to have to make a decision on Len, Williams and even a lesser extent about Warren this summer, when does the cap space dry up when giving these guys extension money and what is the window for being in the FA market for a difference maker?

What's the plan? Who do you think the Suns are targeting to be a contender by 2020, not waiting until 2022(which it feels some of you are thinking)?

Answering those questions is the fun part of team building.

[In2ition]

It's a balancing act right now. How do you answer all the questions?
How do you continue development, and also expedite it without getting into a rut of losing?

How do you get to the playoffs soon enough to encourage a culture of winning and start the contending process without stunting the growth "ANY" of the young guys you think could be special down the road?

How much young talent do you have on the team, before it's detrimental to winning and building a winning culture?

How many more "talented" young players and how many more years of losing will it take before the team turns the corner?

How long before you use the cap space to bring in a veteran to bridge the gap and right the ship?

The Suns are going to have to make a decision on Len, Williams and even a lesser extent about Warren this summer, when does the cap space dry up when giving these guys extension money and what is the window for being in the FA market for a difference maker?

What's the plan? Who do you think the Suns are targeting to be a contender by 2020, not waiting until 2022(which it feels some of you are thinking)?

Answering those questions is the fun part of team building.

Agreed

[Split T]

I'm at the point where my only real concern with Griffin is the health. If we sign him and he can't stay healthy we would lose some roster flexibility going forward.

I'm not concerned about Bender and Chriss getting stuck on the bench. It could happen if we're dumb and play Dudley/Chandler ahead of them, but it doesn't have to happen. There will be plenty of minutes to go around.

As for the salary situation. If we sign Blake to a max deal at 30 million a year, we'd have about 100 million committed for next off season. We could still be a little under the cap and could probably pretty easily move Dudley or Chandler before then to free up more space. In 2019, if we don't sign anyone in 2018, we would have about 70 million committed. Would go up to 80-85 if we re-signed TJ the previous year. With Bledsoe's cap hold we'd be at 105, so we'd have to renounce him to offer any max deals out, but it would be possible. 2020 gets tricky as we don't actually have any money committed for that year yet.

My point is, even with signing Griffin to the max, we'd still have some wiggle room to add more pieces.

[jonh]

It's a balancing act right now. How do you answer all the questions?
How do you continue development, and also expedite it without getting into a rut of losing?

How do you get to the playoffs soon enough to encourage a culture of winning and start the contending process without stunting the growth "ANY" of the young guys you think could be special down the road?

How much young talent do you have on the team, before it's detrimental to winning and building a winning culture?

How many more "talented" young players and how many more years of losing will it take before the team turns the corner?

How long before you use the cap space to bring in a veteran to bridge the gap and right the ship?

The Suns are going to have to make a decision on Len, Williams and even a lesser extent about Warren this summer, when does the cap space dry up when giving these guys extension money and what is the window for being in the FA market for a difference maker?

What's the plan? Who do you think the Suns are targeting to be a contender by 2020, not waiting until 2022(which it feels some of you are thinking)?

I just finished teaching an organizational behavior course, and this sounds exactly like the introductory paragraph you would typically see for a chapter on Talent Development. Might have to make a case study out of this one day.

[AbeVroman]

If there's even a chance we have to do it. I was excited about what I read he said and maybe, just maybe, he wants to be here to be a part of building something and leaving a legacy. He could be on the Mt. Rushmore of Phoenix sports if he brought us to the promised land, or was a part of that. I'm not one to concede that we're playing for 5-6 years down the road - when the Ws are done, the Rockets are whatever, LeBron is retired, etc. No. You plan for the future but always have to live in the present. The present is all there is.

What is really the appeal of Miami over us, in terms of talent? I don't see it. We've got better young talent and he could step right in and be a leader.

It's time to start the climb and we need talent. Blake is big time talent.

Get. This. Done.

[Hermen]

Griffin is an exciting talent and he plays like a superstar for some stretches, but I'm not sure he's the right fit for this team. Especially if he wants to play with Bledsoe, who's not good as a spot-up shooter. And Jackson kinda fills the same role on offense as Griffin would, doesn't he? Good playmaking (and dunking?) forward with suspect shooting. Playmakers are always welcome, but we need shooters. And I think Griffin is not as good as he might seem, when you discount dunks and layups from his percentages.

Mainly though I'm concerned for his athleticism after his MANY injuries (paragraph 4). I'd love him 3 years ago though

[Superbone]

I have come around to wanting to sign Griffin if our training staff signs off on it. The guy is elite when healthy. He would give us our Amare replacement. He wants to play here. He's the kind of player you hate unless he's on your team. Our young team would be able to start getting that taste of winning that is so important. It would be fun to be back in the playoff picture. Like I said, if our training staff signs off on it and we can get it done, do it!

[djy2j]

Blake is a bitch. But i see why we have to consider it. He's the first kind of superstar that has shown interest in Phoenix in quite some time. I'm not a huge fan, mainly because he's hard to root for. I don't like it if it sheds us of Williams and Jones Jr. I know Blake is better than both combined but it kind of takes away from "the process" of developing young guys. I'm still on the fence I guess.

[Superbone]

Griffin is an exciting talent and he plays like a superstar for some stretches, but I'm not sure he's the right fit for this team. Especially if he wants to play with Bledsoe, who's not good as a spot-up shooter. And Jackson kinda fills the same role on offense as Griffin would, doesn't he? Good playmaking (and dunking?) forward with suspect shooting. Playmakers are always welcome, but we need shooters. And I think Griffin is not as good as he might seem, when you discount dunks and layups from his percentages.

Griffin's shooting has improved immeasurably. He has made himself a very good midrange shooter just like Amare did.

[JCSunsfan]

I'm at the point where my only real concern with Griffin is the health. If we sign him and he can't stay healthy we would lose some roster flexibility going forward.

I'm not concerned about Bender and Chriss getting stuck on the bench. It could happen if we're dumb and play Dudley/Chandler ahead of them, but it doesn't have to happen. There will be plenty of minutes to go around.

As for the salary situation. If we sign Blake to a max deal at 30 million a year, we'd have about 100 million committed for next off season. We could still be a little under the cap and could probably pretty easily move Dudley or Chandler before then to free up more space. In 2019, if we don't sign anyone in 2018, we would have about 70 million committed. Would go up to 80-85 if we re-signed TJ the previous year. With Bledsoe's cap hold we'd be at 105, so we'd have to renounce him to offer any max deals out, but it would be possible. 2020 gets tricky as we don't actually have any money committed for that year yet.

My point is, even with signing Griffin to the max, we'd still have some wiggle room to add more pieces.

I am kind of where you are. But, when I look at Griffin's history of injuries, it is not a severe as Grant Hill's prior to coming to the Suns. He might be well-served by getting under the Suns training staff, and then playing a more mature game. While I think it is a long shot to sign Griffin, the young core and the med staff would be very tempting if I was a player in his position. Plus, if he comes, and this team really starts winning, he will get a lot of the credit. I have not been a fan of Blake as a person over the years, but Clips fans say that that stuff is blown up in the national sound bite press. We wills see. I'm a bit ambivalent. I think I will be happy whatever way this goes.

[Split T]

And for the record, I'm ok if we decide to pass on Griffin and just keep building on our youth. I still think we need to make some kind of move at some point. I don't see Bledsoe/Booker/Jackson/Bender/Chriss ever being a contender without another piece. And that piece needs to be a star.

[TOO]

And for the record, I'm ok if we decide to pass on Griffin and just keep building on our youth. I still think we need to make some kind of move at some point. I don't see Bledsoe/Booker/Jackson/Bender/Chriss ever being a contender without another piece. And that piece needs to be a star.

I think the hope is a 2 of Jackson/Booker/Chriss become the star and then you add to that. Chasing stars is what you do when you already have one or 2.

[JCSunsfan]

And for the record, I'm ok if we decide to pass on Griffin and just keep building on our youth. I still think we need to make some kind of move at some point. I don't see Bledsoe/Booker/Jackson/Bender/Chriss ever being a contender without another piece. And that piece needs to be a star.

I think there is a decent chance Booker becomes a star. Then, maybe Jackson becomes a star. With Griffin, that could be a big 3. But development has to happen. The others need to be solid pieces. In order for this team to succeed, Bledsoe has to quit thinking of himself as a star and think of himself as a complementary player.

[jonh]

There is a lot of talent with a starting 5 of:
Bledsoe
Booker
Jackson
Griffin
Chriss/Bender/Williams?

But would else would be shooting the 3's outside of Booker and maybe Chriss? Would this team be able to work well when the game slows down?