Around the League: The Offseason

Discussion of the league and of our favorite team.
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Split T
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Re: Around the League: The Offseason

Post by Split T »

The best option, then, might be a Phoenix Suns package centered around point guard Eric Bledsoe. While his effort tends to wax and wane during the regular season, Bledsoe is the kind of physical defender Irving is not, and he's become a credible enough 3-point threat to play off the ball. (Bledsoe made a career-high 104 3s last season, albeit at a below-average 33.5 percent clip.)

There are other reasons to believe a Bledsoe deal could work. He's a client of Klutch Sports, the agency founded by James' business partner Rich Paul. Phoenix also has ample cap space to take a contract like Channing Frye or Iman Shumpert off Cleveland's books, reducing the Cavaliers' tax bill. A deal of Irving and Shumpert for Bledsoe and T.J. Warren would save Cleveland nearly $60 million in payroll and taxes this season.

While Bledsoe would be a defensive upgrade against Stephen Curry in a possible Finals rematch, it's still hard to say the Cavaliers would have a better chance of beating Golden State with Bledsoe in place of Irving. Cleveland would lose too much of the shooting and shot creation that broke the Warriors' defense late in the 2016 Finals. Unless the Cavaliers can get another star point guard who is unexpectedly available in a trade, an Irving deal might help them in the regular season but not in the playoffs.
http://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_ ... ving-trade

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Ring_Wanted
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Re: Around the League: The Offseason

Post by Ring_Wanted »

specialsauce wrote:No to including Warren in that deal.
Agreed.
carey wrote:No. Cavs get 2nd & 3rd best player and a pick? We get the pick.
Irving is clearly the best asset on that ammended deal by Simmons. Although I think the way value is shared all around is pretty evenly in terms of players so that pick could be grabbed by PHX if we add something Cleveland wants more to win now, or some kind of swap that gives them more cap flexibility.

Would Minni be interested in getting Love+ back for Wiggins and filler? With Thibs I could se a core of Butler-Love-KAT doing real damage.

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carey
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Re: Around the League: The Offseason

Post by carey »

Are you assuming Melo will be coming in to play PF?
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Ring_Wanted
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Re: Around the League: The Offseason

Post by Ring_Wanted »

carey wrote:Are you assuming Melo will be coming in to play PF?
Well somebody has to do it. Melo or LeBron, but it doesn't matter as it makes Love equally expendable.

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Superbone
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Re: Around the League: The Offseason

Post by Superbone »

The more I think about it the less I'd want Kyrie anyway. The guy wants to be the man and doesn't want to share the stage with the best player in all of basketball? He'd rather sacrafice wins in order to be "the guy"? Pass.
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Ring_Wanted
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Re: Around the League: The Offseason

Post by Ring_Wanted »

I don't want Irving either. Our role in such trade should be as facilitators, providing cap flexibility and smaller pieces that fit into what the main cogs want to do, charging a fee of course.

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Flagrant Fowl
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Re: Around the League: The Offseason

Post by Flagrant Fowl »

This is a shrewd move by Irving.

The writing is on the wall for LeBron to leave Cleveland after this next season. Irving has already been there pre-LeBron and I'm sure he doesn't remember it fondly.

I don't think this is as much of an instance of wanting to "be the man" as it is he's playing his hand while he has more of an opportunity to dictate his future.
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virtual9mm
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Re: Around the League: The Offseason

Post by virtual9mm »

Flagrant Fowl wrote:This is a shrewd move by Irving.

The writing is on the wall for LeBron to leave Cleveland after this next season. Irving has already been there pre-LeBron and I'm sure he doesn't remember it fondly.

I don't think this is as much of an instance of wanting to "be the man" as it is he's playing his hand while he has more of an opportunity to dictate his future.
I agree. And I wouldn't be so quick to put the selfish tag on him. That being said -- a pass-first PG he is not.

I think that he may be overrated because of all the exposure that he has received, and he certainly isn't worth Bledsoe + Josh Jackson + another asset. If you can get them down to Bledsoe + pick and a veteran like Dudley or even Chandler...

I think I prefer the alternative scenario -- pick up a young player like Ntilikina and a pick. Who knows if either asset will pan out.

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ShelC
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Re: Around the League: The Offseason

Post by ShelC »

Another deal throw out there is:

Phx gets Frank and Love
NYK gets Kyrie and Chandler
Cleveland gets Melo and Bledsoe

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Split T
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Re: Around the League: The Offseason

Post by Split T »

ShelC wrote:Another deal throw out there is:

Phx gets Frank and Love
NYK gets Kyrie and Chandler
Cleveland gets Melo and Bledsoe
Seems like Cleveland would need more. I think they can get Melo and Bledsoe without giving up love.

I just really want something to happen here and for us to be involved. My 3 untouchables in a trade for Kyrie would be Booker/Jackson and our unprotected 2018 1st. Cavs can have 3 assets of their choice from ones left and we'll take Frye's contract. Bled/Warren/Miami 1st for Kyrie/Frye would be my offer. They can have Chandler too if they want.

If we can't make it work without giving up one of Jackson/Booker/2018 1st I'd love to be the third team with Kyrie going to NY. The basics have been discussed and make a ton of sense. Melo and Bled to Cleveland, Kyrie to NY, Ntilikina to PHX. Draft picks, contracts, and filler pieces would probably be included, but I'd be in favor of moving bled for Ntilikina.

If the bridges aren't burned, we could then run Knight as our starting 1 and either rebuild some value for a trade or keep him if he turns into something useful.

I love the potential fit of Ntilikina. With him and Jackson alongside Booker, our perimeter defense would be set. Booker could be hidden on the weakest offensive player. He also plays well off the ball and would allow Booker and Jackson to use their shot creation abilities frequently. He's a smart player, who could be an elite 3-D player who adds the bonus of being a very good secondary playmaker. You leave him open, he drills the 3. You close out, he makes a move into the lane, collapsing the defense, and creating scoring opportunities all over the floor. He's got great vision and will make people pay.

Future core:
Ntilikina 19
Booker 20
Jackson 20
Chriss 20
2018 1st

Bench Core:
Ulis 21
Reed 22
Warren 23
Bender 19
Williams 24
DJJ 20
2018 Miami 1st

Wildcard:
Knight 25

We could have 12 under 25 players on our roster next year. And our own 1st would be really good. Potentially Bagley, Doncic, Porter Jr, Ayton, or Bamba. Or whoever else emerges (Robert Williams, Wendell Carter)

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Cap
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Re: Around the League: The Offseason

Post by Cap »

Ntilikina sounds like a good fit and INF is high on him, so I'd probably be happy to see this happen.

On the downside, I'd get tired of typing "Ntilikina."

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Sunsfan4life
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Re: Around the League: The Offseason

Post by Sunsfan4life »

Cap wrote:Ntilikina sounds like a good fit and INF is high on him, so I'd probably be happy to see this happen.

On the downside, I'd get tired of typing "Ntilikina."

Agreed...and because of the inconvenience of typing it, Ryan should get atleast a protected first too
“Kobe had said (after the play) I wasn’t hugged enough as a child,” Bell recalled. “My mom kind of found him after the instance and we had beat them and offered him a hug in the bowels of the Phoenix arena. She really feels a part of that story.”

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Sunsfan4life
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Re: Around the League: The Offseason

Post by Sunsfan4life »

ShelC wrote:Another deal throw out there is:

Phx gets Frank and Love
NYK gets Kyrie and Chandler
Cleveland gets Melo and Bledsoe

The only benefit to us taking Love is for us to do it with the intention of flipping him again during the year. He'd be a great fit in Boston I feel and at the deadline they could view him as a piece that gets them over the top.
“Kobe had said (after the play) I wasn’t hugged enough as a child,” Bell recalled. “My mom kind of found him after the instance and we had beat them and offered him a hug in the bowels of the Phoenix arena. She really feels a part of that story.”

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JCSunsfan
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Re: Around the League: The Offseason

Post by JCSunsfan »

Frank is a totally unproven player. No way am I giving up Bledsoe for him. There is no point in this trade for the Suns except to make it possible for everyone else to get what they want. I would want Kyrie. There is no point in trading for more baby players.

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Split T
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Re: Around the League: The Offseason

Post by Split T »

JCSunsfan wrote:Frank is a totally unproven player. No way am I giving up Bledsoe for him. There is no point in this trade for the Suns except to make it possible for everyone else to get what they want. I would want Kyrie. There is no point in trading for more baby players.
You're not gonna get Kyrie for just Bledsoe. If Cleveland does Bledsoe, the Miami 1st, and Warren or Chandler for Kyrie/shump/Frye then ya, of course you do that. But they want more. Maybe NY would send Melo to Cleveland for Warren and a 1st?

Bottom line, is Bledsoe doesn't fit our timeline unless he plays at a high level into his mid 30's. Trading for Frank is a risk, but I think it's worth taking. We double down on our youth. The team would be Booker and Jackson's next year and we'd continue to develop Chriss/Bender/ulis and add Ntilikina to that mix. Not to mention, we'd probably lose a ton and add another top 5 pick. We could go into the 2018 season with Booker/Jackson/Warren/Chriss/Bender/Ntilikina/Ulis and someone like Bagley or Ayton. That's an incredible stockpile of young talent that would all be on rookie contracts except Warren. We could then add a big name free agent or just let them grow together or be able to make a big time offer to someone if a top name (Anthony Davis) becomes available.

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Superbone
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Re: Around the League: The Offseason

Post by Superbone »

Sunsfan4life wrote:
Cap wrote:Ntilikina sounds like a good fit and INF is high on him, so I'd probably be happy to see this happen.

On the downside, I'd get tired of typing "Ntilikina."

Agreed...and because of the inconvenience of typing it, Ryan should get atleast a protected first too
At least I know how to pronounce it now:



ni LEAK in a
"Be Legendary."

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Cap
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Re: Around the League: The Offseason

Post by Cap »

Superbone wrote:
Sunsfan4life wrote:
Cap wrote:Ntilikina sounds like a good fit and INF is high on him, so I'd probably be happy to see this happen.

On the downside, I'd get tired of typing "Ntilikina."

Agreed...and because of the inconvenience of typing it, Ryan should get atleast a protected first too
At least I know how to pronounce it now:



ni LEAK in a
Wikipedia says it's Ne-li-KEE-na, and I consider that authoritative, which means the kid doesn't even know how to say his own name. What a dummy!

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O_Gardino
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Re: Around the League: The Offseason

Post by O_Gardino »

Superbone wrote:
In2ition wrote:Yeah, Kyrie would go to NY, Melo to Cleveland. Warren might not be involved. I think this could work for all teams involved.
I think INF would jump on this. Pretty sure he said he is a big fan of Ntilikina. We would get much younger, more draft picks, and everybody would be on the same timeline. Our only veterans left would be Dudley and Frye.
Inf wanted him with the #4 pick.
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O_Gardino
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Re: Around the League: The Offseason

Post by O_Gardino »

I'd do pretty much any of these Ntilikina for Bled trades. Especially if we also get a pick. Ntilikina loves to defend, has great size and IQ, and is used to playing off the ball on his current pro team. Unlike Bender, he actually plays and his team went to the finals this year.

I know Bled has been our best player for a couple of years, but we are a terrible team. The best player on a bad team isn't necessarily a sought after guy. A good prospect and a pick is terrific return for Bled.
The league needs heroes, villains... and clowns. -- Aztec Sunsfan

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Superbone
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Re: Around the League: The Offseason

Post by Superbone »

Cap wrote:
Superbone wrote:
Sunsfan4life wrote:
Cap wrote:Ntilikina sounds like a good fit and INF is high on him, so I'd probably be happy to see this happen.

On the downside, I'd get tired of typing "Ntilikina."

Agreed...and because of the inconvenience of typing it, Ryan should get atleast a protected first too
At least I know how to pronounce it now:



ni LEAK in a
Wikipedia says it's Ne-li-KEE-na, and I consider that authoritative, which means the kid doesn't even know how to say his own name. What a dummy!
Not anymore. ;)
"Be Legendary."

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