SL Game Day: Jazz #20 (0-3) @ Suns #13 (1-2), Wed 7/12/17

[Ring_Wanted]

He's not explosive and probably won't be a good rebounder. His game could actually model Okur's, so maybe that's why we added him to the bench.

Good call.

[djy2j]

Chriss's Draft Express write-up compared him to Aaron Gordon, which isn't a huge compliment to begin with but as of right now he's looking more like Stromile Swift. He's still too young to know what he's going to be yet but he's far from a guarantee. I was hoping the Suns would snag David West to mentor him but he re-upped with the Warriors. He retires after next season so maybe we can get him to coach. As for this year I think Chriss needs a big man veteran PF to help him. Brandon Bass, David Lee are really all that are left that I think closest resemble what Chriss's game should look like.

[Indy]

Effing ESPN has the Suns listed on their ESPN2 channel, but it wasn;t there. So my recording didn't work. f***.

Indy, Indy, Indy...

Time: 5:00 pm AZ (5:00 pm PT/8:00 pm ET)
Place: Cox Pavilion, Las Vegas, NV
TV: NBATV

I wouldn't do you wrong.

Can you control my DirecTV auto-recording for all things Suns? I would absolutely love that. Or can someone write some code that takes all game-day threads and uses the first post to program a recording in our DVRs?

I had some work to do in my basement last night, and came up about 15 minutes after the game started so I can fast-forward through the ridiculousness that is the witty banter between the broadcasters... Oops.

[Indy]

Well Chriss is Watson's pet project so he better light a fire under his ass. He's looking exactly like the type of player another team drafts high and you're like "Man, I'm glad we didn't take him". Ironically, he's the kind of player the Kings would've been drafted the past 3-4 years.

Bender can end up being "just a role player", which is fine. He's been playing the 5 in SL and I think that's the most likely position for him. Last night his shot was falling, he showed some post ability, and has a good knack for passing within the offense. He's not explosive and probably won't be a good rebounder. His game could actually model Okur's, so maybe that's why we added him to the bench.

So for our last 4 top 10 picks, we get a bust, role-player, bust, and "looks promising but still hasn't played a real game?" Ouch.

[The Bobster]

Or they're both still very young (19 and 20) and we might need to exercise some patience.

[Indy]

Or they're both still very young (19 and 20) and we might need to exercise some patience.

Bah. Rational thought. Pfft.

[O_Gardino]

We're going to have to wind up moving Warren aren't we? Possibly in a Knight dump before the season. Ugh.

I hope not. He's currently our best PF.

[O_Gardino]

I don't have NBA league pass. I caught the last few minutes of the game eating at Popeyes fast food of all places. They just happened to have the game on. I read all the posts. It sounds like "JJ" kind of all around kicks ass already. Bender sounds like he is making an impact.

It sounds like Chriss is really starting to disappoint around here. I'll admit I was disappointed last year in his progress. He had his moments though. They were just a little too far between. I almost got the impression that he was holding back or deferring to others and that at some point he would break out of his shell and kick ass. He got so many T's, there must be a fire down there somewhere. It seemed like he kind of did break out of that shell a little towards the end of the season. The jury is still out ...

I am starting to get excited about adding another good piece to the puzzle/team in JJ. Is "JJ" the name everybody always called him or is that his new Suns nick name that is going around until they come up with his official Suns nick name like Thunder Dan, Socks, Flying Dutchman, Dragon, Horny, Brazilian Blur, Matrix or Sir Charles? How about "The Fro"?

Chriss is playing with a lot of emotion. He's got the fire, he's just not playing well.

[O_Gardino]

You guys can say what you want about him being 20 years old and this being SL, but I've seen enough to know Chriss is what some of us feared. He's an (OK) athlete, not a basketball player. He's got no feel for the post, no idea where he is when he's in the lane, no body control or balance when he has a defender on him. He doesn't even understand basic positioning or use of angles, so he's always in a bad position when he gets the ball and then tries some over elaborate move that usually results in a bad shot or TO. He posts up 18ft out and looks to face up with a dribble drive rather than setting up deep in the post and getting a good angle. Remember when Amar'e used to drive recklessly into the lane with no idea what he was doing? That's Chriss, without the freak athleticism to make up a for lack of fundamentals.

Sorry to be so harsh, but some guys have it and some don't. It's a feel thing. He's fine on dumpoffs and dunks, OK in transition, but I don't trust him to do anything with the ball on his own. And on top of that, he's not even crashing the boards or bringing any post D or shotblocking. And he flat out doesn't hustle and even gives up on plays. Last night his man drove on him, he tailed the play, the guy missed the layup and he turned and watched the ball fall off the rim, bounce, and another guy get the rebound for the putback. He was pretty much under the backboard when that happened but just stopped playing and watched. Can't have that.

On a more positive note, Legler was on ESPN just now talking up Josh Jackson. He's followed him a few years now and loves his competitiveness, defense (showed the block from last night), and improving offense. Says he raised the level of competitiveness of those around him and should be an all-star for years to come.

Unfortunately, he's exactly as advertised pre-draft. This from draftexpress mock draft (under weakness) rings so true today.

Where that tends to show up the most vividly right now is as on the defensive glass. At 4.1 rebounds per-40, Chriss ranks among the least prolific power forwards in NBA Draft history according to our database. Among first round picks, only Thaddeus Young (who played mostly SF in college) had a worse defensive rebounding rate in the draft's last 30 years.
Chriss almost never puts a body on opposing big men in an attempt to box out and prepare for loose balls coming off the glass, and his relatively small standing reach (measured at 8'9, comparable with most small forwards) didn't help matters much. In addition to his instincts, his motor here leaves a lot to be desired as well, as if at times appears he's operating at half speed, and far more focused on his work on the offensive end. Not surprisingly, that translates to the rest of his play defensively. He has the quickness needed to stay in front of nearly everyone he encounters, and the explosiveness to block a decent amount of shots, but lacks the fundamentals, discipline and consistent effort required to take advantage of that.
Opposing coaching staffs regularly targeted him in isolation situations, and found a lot of success doing so, as he would typically either commit a foul or give up a basket. Chriss was one of the most foul prone players in college basketball, being disqualified from 15 of his 34 games, and committing four fouls in ten others. Many of his fouls seemed highly unnecessary, particularly early in the season, and appeared to be almost entirely due to a lack of focus. In today's NBA, many teams want to see their power forwards being able to hold their own as small-ball centers, and it's not clear that he has the frame, length or reach to be overly effective at that.
One of the youngest players in the draft, not turning 19 until July, Chriss has quite a bit of innate talent that is easy to get excited about, but also some significant red flags on and off the court. He's a long ways away from reaching his full potential at the moment, with his inconsistent motor, approach to the game, and how emotional he appears at times.

I'd love for him to suddenly "get it" but I don't see it happening (would LOVE to be proven wrong, btw). I have higher hopes for Bender ... I feel there's a really good basketball player lurking inside him somewhere, we just need to coax him out.

You are both absolutely right. He just doesn't have basketball between the ears. We were told that we could expect big improvements from him based on how much he improved over his college season. Well, he did improve more as a rookie than I expected. At this point, I think we need to treat him like the Bucks treated B Knight. Put him in the best position to succeed, then trade him as soon as he puts together enough good games to fool someone.

[carey]

So for our last 4 top 10 picks, we get a bust, role-player, bust, and "looks promising but still hasn't played a real game?" Ouch.

Yeah, that would not be good and would really put to rest the concept of McDonough as a great drafter.

[ShelC]

I know that's going to be the pushback, but I've seen enough in my day to know that the good players stand out in SL and there are basic things guys should be doing or know how to do at this point in their lives/careers.

The other thing about Chriss is his body. He's got a thicker base and lower center of gravity. He's not bouncy and seems to be more of a plodder. He's a good run jump athlete but just doesn't have a lot of overall speed now with the added weight. He should be getting lower in the post, less upright and using his base to bump guys around for rebounds and positioning.

[O_Gardino]

Well Chriss is Watson's pet project so he better light a fire under his ass. He's looking exactly like the type of player another team drafts high and you're like "Man, I'm glad we didn't take him". Ironically, he's the kind of player the Kings would've been drafted the past 3-4 years.

Bender can end up being "just a role player", which is fine. He's been playing the 5 in SL and I think that's the most likely position for him. Last night his shot was falling, he showed some post ability, and has a good knack for passing within the offense. He's not explosive and probably won't be a good rebounder. His game could actually model Okur's, so maybe that's why we added him to the bench.

We could have had Papagiannis or Hernangomez to replace Len + Skal or Murray as an athletic long shot to roll the dice with. I can see rolling the dice on a guy like Chriss, but why trade up to do it?

[Indy]

So for our last 4 top 10 picks, we get a bust, role-player, bust, and "looks promising but still hasn't played a real game?" Ouch.

Yeah, that would not be good and would really put to rest the concept of McDonough as a great drafter.

Not to mention trading the Lakers pick for a top 10 pick in BK and then giving him a long term big contract...

[O_Gardino]

Or they're both still very young (19 and 20) and we might need to exercise some patience.

Do a lot of guys add motor as they get older?

[Indy]

Or they're both still very young (19 and 20) and we might need to exercise some patience.

Do a lot of guys add motor as they get older?

Or BBIQ?

[JCSunsfan]

Davon Reed +20

That is a guy that makes a difference.

[Split T]

It almost feels like y'all want Chriss to fail, so you'll be right. I was one of just a few posters who liked the pick at the time. A few people came around when he played better than expected, but a few underwhelming summer league games and we're back to him being terrible? It boggles my mind how much leash we've given Bender to suck compared to Chriss.

[carey]

It almost feels like y'all want Chriss to fail, so you'll be right. I was one of just a few posters who liked the pick at the time. A few people came around when he played better than expected, but a few underwhelming summer league games and we're back to him being terrible? It boggles my mind how much leash we've given Bender to suck compared to Chriss.

I'm a Bender guy but I'll say this for the 100th time. I don't want anyone we pick to fail or to suck or to play bad basketball. I hope everyone we draft turns into LeBron fucking James. Whether I'm right or not never matters to me.

[Split T]

It almost feels like y'all want Chriss to fail, so you'll be right. I was one of just a few posters who liked the pick at the time. A few people came around when he played better than expected, but a few underwhelming summer league games and we're back to him being terrible? It boggles my mind how much leash we've given Bender to suck compared to Chriss.

I'm a Bender guy but I'll say this for the 100th time. I don't want anyone we pick to fail or to suck or to play bad basketball. I hope everyone we draft turns into LeBron f*** James. Whether I'm right or not never matters to me.

I wasn't picking on any poster in particular. It just feels like we are so quick to tear apart Chriss for the things he does wrong but I don't see that with Bender. First impressions are hard to break. A lot of people on this board didn't like Chriss when we drafted him and maybe that makes it easier for them to see his faults. As one of the few team Chriss over team Bender guys, it's just interesting to watch.

For the record, I'm not anti Bender, I think he could be a good player but he didn't show anything last year. We talk about his great bbiq, but all that lead to was a bunch of missed 3's last year.

[ShelC]

With Chriss, I'm trying to find anything he does right. He can't play in the post, hasn't been great finishing in traffic, doesn't rebound, hasn't been blocking shots, has missed his 3pt attempts. I want him to succeed and give us something at the PF spot, but he hasn't shown much of anything these past 3 games.

Bender was the young player in the L last year and barely played but you see flashes on a basketball player there. The last few games he's shown more ability and has knocked down his shots nicely. With him, I think it's about confidence and picking his spots more than actual ability.