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I’d offer Len a Southwest Airlines ticket out of town.

I don't think I'd offer him anything. Just doesn't fit what I want to do.

carey wrote:

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:8 mil is not even the mid-level. That's an insulting offer.

That's about the max I would pay Payton and certainly the max I would give Alex Len.

He is worth more than 8 per. I would offer 11 and see if he would take it, or start with 10 and have 12-13 max in mind. Something like that. $500K kicker for better grooming.

I really like Payton and think he can be a long term solution for the Suns as either a starter or backup. This summer is going to be crazy with all the possibilities and changes/roster improvements that I think will happen.

8mil per year for a starting PG was the salary 10 years ago. Hell we gave Marcus Banks 5mil to be a backup in the summer of 2005. Knight and Bledsoe got max deals starting at what, 12-14mil, 2 years ago? It'll be at least that.

Maybe, I don't think there will be anyone offering more than the MLE( 9 million). I'd offer him a deal starting at 10 and just lock him up early.

carey wrote:

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:8 mil is not even the mid-level. That's an insulting offer.

That's about the max I would pay Payton and certainly the max I would give Alex Len.

Payton is worth way more than 8, and I think Len is worth less than 8. I really think Len isn't going to even listen to our offer.

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:8 mil is not even the mid-level. That's an insulting offer.

He's a 2nd/3rd string center on the worst team in the league. Are you valuing more him more for his body of work or his potential?

ShelC wrote:8mil per year for a starting PG was the salary 10 years ago. Hell we gave M****s B***s 5mil to be a backup in the summer of 2005. Knight and Bledsoe got max deals starting at what, 12-14mil, 2 years ago? It'll be at least that.

Not sure I'd use Knight's contract as a barometer. That was a stupid fucking offer by a stupid fucking team who's only bidder was themselves.

I think the 4/48 deal we gave Warren is the highest we'd see for Payton and I don't think we'll need to go that high.

8 mil won't be enough to keep Payton. We need to remember that we aren't on 2013 NBA economics any more. I'd say at least 11-12 mil a year and perhaps closer to 15 if we want to keep Payton. But we'll see. Remember that the cap is like $109 mil, so $11-12 mil is honestly very little for a productive player. You could literally have 10 guys under contract for that amount and still not be over.

$15M???? What happened to the "don't bid against yourselves" crowd? Don't look at his play in a vacuum. He was just dumped for a 2nd round pick and nearly every team has a starting PG they are happy with already. I stand by my $8M. He should not be getting more than the MLE as he is an average level NBA player. Don't let the fact that we are starved for competent PG play effect your judgement here.

Split T wrote:Ya they're close. Mitchell is 22/4/4, Booker is 26/5/5. Booker has better shooting splits but he also has more NBA experience. He's also younger than Mitchell, by a couple months, and has to shoulder more workload.

So it's possible Mitchell ends up a better player, but hard to make an argument that he's already better.

I think Booker's NBA experience is more of an advantage than Mitchell's age.

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:8 mil won't be enough to keep Payton. We need to remember that we aren't on 2013 NBA economics any more. I'd say at least 11-12 mil a year and perhaps closer to 15 if we want to keep Payton. But we'll see. Remember that the cap is like $109 mil, so $11-12 mil is honestly very little for a productive player. You could literally have 10 guys under contract for that amount and still not be over.

Also keep in mind the very sudden shift by NBA front offices. Everyone hates the contracts they have handed out, and hardly anyone wanted to take long term salary. Lou Williams is having a career year and accepted an extension for $8 mil a year.

carey wrote:$15M???? What happened to the "don't bid against yourselves" crowd? Don't look at his play in a vacuum. He was just dumped for a 2nd round pick and nearly every team has a starting PG they are happy with already. I stand by my $8M. He should not be getting more than the MLE as he is an average level NBA player. Don't let the fact that we are starved for competent PG play effect your judgement here.

If we give him 15 mil it'll be the end of this alleged timeline. Orlando didn't get a better offer than a second round pick which explains his value across the league. No one is throwing 15 at him. No one is throwing 12 at him either. Middle of the road PG's are dime a dozen right now.

I agree with the Lou Williams deal at most for Elfrid

What in the world has he accomplished to deserve more than Lou?

INFORMER wrote:

Split T wrote:Ya they're close. Mitchell is 22/4/4, Booker is 26/5/5. Booker has better shooting splits but he also has more NBA experience. He's also younger than Mitchell, by a couple months, and has to shoulder more workload.

So it's possible Mitchell ends up a better player, but hard to make an argument that he's already better.

I think Booker's NBA experience is more of an advantage than Mitchell's age.

I agree. Mostly mentioned that for people who like to compare Mitchell's rookie year to Booker's and say that makes Mitchell better.

specialsauce wrote:I agree with the Lou Williams deal at most for Elfrid

What in the world has he accomplished to deserve more than Lou?

People(agents) are mad that Lou took so little. My guess is Lou took a discount to have some stability. He's been on 3 different teams in 2 years. I think 8 mil is pretty fair for Payton. I'd be fine at 10 million. It's hard to imagine any team with Cap space using it on Payton. They would have traded for him right now if they were interested enough to throw more than the mle at him. I could hypothetically see a capped out team offering the mle but we could just match.

djy2j wrote:Middle of the road PG's are dime a dozen right now.

When Sarver and McD hear about that special offer, they're going to go right out and get a dozen middle of the road PGs.

carey wrote:$15M???? What happened to the "don't bid against yourselves" crowd? Don't look at his play in a vacuum. He was just dumped for a 2nd round pick and nearly every team has a starting PG they are happy with already. I stand by my $8M. He should not be getting more than the MLE as he is an average level NBA player. Don't let the fact that we are starved for competent PG play effect your judgement here.

I agree that we shouldn't bid against ourselves on Payton. I would not want to offer him a $15m/year contract out of the gate with no competition for him at that price. I'd rather offer him a much lower number, say $9-10m/yr, and then if he goes looking for other deals, I wouldn't match him if he gets much higher than that. I just meant that it might take that much to ultimately keep him, because some team might offer him $15m/yr to try to steal him. I have mixed feelings about handing him a huge contract, but I do think I'd pay him more than you seem to be willing to pay him. I just want a solid young stable PG helping run our team, and I have really gotten tired of the endless revolving door of G-Leaguers and nobodies we have been trotting out. I think it'd be worth spending a few bucks to lock down that position going forward for several years.