Re: Rank our draft, and give your reasoning!
Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:30 pm
I'm sure Philly would want a lot to move on from Fultz this early. They'll include him in packages for Kawhi and McCollum, not Warren.
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Rank our draft, and give your reasoning!
Page 6 of 6
Re: Rank our draft, and give your reasoning!
Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:46 pm
Bruiser, I'm sorry you're going through that. Hang in there. This too will pass.Bruiser wrote: ↑Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:21 pmI get the idea of getting busy now and turning the franchise around in order to protect against developing a culture of losing but all of that is not enough reason for me to not put at least some sort of protection on the pick or package it with a Chriss for Fultz swap or something. Be creative but don't pay so much more than market value, please. To me that was unneccesay short-term thinking.AmareIsGod wrote: ↑Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:04 amSomeone made a good point regarding the MIA pick in 2021 being part of the trade we made. You don't bank on the potential of that being a good pick, which would need a season or two anyways to develop while letting Booker age another 4-5 years. You need to take advantage of having him here, having him happy and having him on a winning team. We need to do what we need to do to get a competitive and good team rolling today, not focus on 2021.
Got to admit tough that I am going through a pretty rough patch in life right now so it might be me being extremely pessimistic and a rather negative person overall. So I am sorry for that. I would actually hate to be right and I am more than ever rooting for all of our new guys to make me eat my words.
Go Suns!
Re: Rank our draft, and give your reasoning!
Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:58 pm
Switch out onto the perimeter, defend the perimeter and pick and rolls, and defend drives to the basket.Hermen wrote: ↑Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:15 pmBball-ref is great for this. In the regular season their Offensive rating was much better when Embiid played, but it was the other way around in the playoffs when his post-ups were killing them. As far as the contribution to winning goes, even in the playoffs their net rating was better with Embiid, because he's a great defender. Even last season when the Sixers were still terrible they had a positive net rating when Embiid played.gosuns wrote: ↑Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:03 pmI actually think Ayton could be better and more stable than Embiid. Embiid looks flashy, but his contribution to winning is, in my opinion, overrated. I saw what the Sixers did without Embiid. I believe the Sixers offense was equal with him sitting. Also i value interior defense more than post offense. And Bamba would have been much cheaper than Capela. Plus Bamba has the potential to be much better than Capela. But as anyone else here I could be wrong. I’m not a basketball guru.Uncle_Gene wrote: ↑Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:25 amSo you prefer the next Clint Capela (Bamba) over the next Embiid (Ayton) ?
I'm curious, what do you think Ayton will do better than Embiid?
Re: Rank our draft, and give your reasoning!
Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:38 pm
Have you seen him do these things, or are you thinking that based on his foot speed, length, and athleticism that he will be able to do that (and good coaching)?In2ition wrote: ↑Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:58 pmSwitch out onto the perimeter, defend the perimeter and pick and rolls, and defend drives to the basket.Hermen wrote: ↑Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:15 pmBball-ref is great for this. In the regular season their Offensive rating was much better when Embiid played, but it was the other way around in the playoffs when his post-ups were killing them. As far as the contribution to winning goes, even in the playoffs their net rating was better with Embiid, because he's a great defender. Even last season when the Sixers were still terrible they had a positive net rating when Embiid played.gosuns wrote: ↑Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:03 pmI actually think Ayton could be better and more stable than Embiid. Embiid looks flashy, but his contribution to winning is, in my opinion, overrated. I saw what the Sixers did without Embiid. I believe the Sixers offense was equal with him sitting. Also i value interior defense more than post offense. And Bamba would have been much cheaper than Capela. Plus Bamba has the potential to be much better than Capela. But as anyone else here I could be wrong. I’m not a basketball guru.Uncle_Gene wrote: ↑Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:25 amSo you prefer the next Clint Capela (Bamba) over the next Embiid (Ayton) ?
I'm curious, what do you think Ayton will do better than Embiid?
Re: Rank our draft, and give your reasoning!
Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:02 pm
This board has always had a weird obsession with discounting Amare. Pre injury he was an absolute monster. Just dunking on everyone. This was straight out of high school as well.
Being critical isn't discounting what he did here.
Being critical isn't discounting what he did here.
Re: Rank our draft, and give your reasoning!
Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:10 pm
Re: Rank our draft, and give your reasoning!
Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:08 pm
Yes, I have. I just have also seen him be bad in his helpside defense, rotations and protecting the rim, but even that has improved the past year.Indy wrote: ↑Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:38 pmHave you seen him do these things, or are you thinking that based on his foot speed, length, and athleticism that he will be able to do that (and good coaching)?In2ition wrote: ↑Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:58 pmSwitch out onto the perimeter, defend the perimeter and pick and rolls, and defend drives to the basket.Hermen wrote: ↑Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:15 pmBball-ref is great for this. In the regular season their Offensive rating was much better when Embiid played, but it was the other way around in the playoffs when his post-ups were killing them. As far as the contribution to winning goes, even in the playoffs their net rating was better with Embiid, because he's a great defender. Even last season when the Sixers were still terrible they had a positive net rating when Embiid played.gosuns wrote: ↑Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:03 pmI actually think Ayton could be better and more stable than Embiid. Embiid looks flashy, but his contribution to winning is, in my opinion, overrated. I saw what the Sixers did without Embiid. I believe the Sixers offense was equal with him sitting. Also i value interior defense more than post offense. And Bamba would have been much cheaper than Capela. Plus Bamba has the potential to be much better than Capela. But as anyone else here I could be wrong. I’m not a basketball guru.Uncle_Gene wrote: ↑Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:25 am
So you prefer the next Clint Capela (Bamba) over the next Embiid (Ayton) ?
I'm curious, what do you think Ayton will do better than Embiid?
Re: Rank our draft, and give your reasoning!
Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:10 pm
It was Simmons who turned them into a winning team. Im not saying he could have done it without Embiid, but Embiid needs Simmons to be effective more than Simmons needs Embiid. Also it would be a tragedy if you removed a starter and replaced him with a backup and your teams numbers improved. But if you replaced Embiid with say Capela, Gobert or Horford what would that do for the sixers. Would it hurt them or improve them? Look, I like Embiid. He is a great player. Super motor, entertaining as hell to watch.Hermen wrote: ↑Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:15 pmBball-ref is great for this. In the regular season their Offensive rating was much better when Embiid played, but it was the other way around in the playoffs when his post-ups were killing them. As far as the contribution to winning goes, even in the playoffs their net rating was better with Embiid, because he's a great defender. Even last season when the Sixers were still terrible they had a positive net rating when Embiid played.gosuns wrote: ↑Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:03 pmI actually think Ayton could be better and more stable than Embiid. Embiid looks flashy, but his contribution to winning is, in my opinion, overrated. I saw what the Sixers did without Embiid. I believe the Sixers offense was equal with him sitting. Also i value interior defense more than post offense. And Bamba would have been much cheaper than Capela. Plus Bamba has the potential to be much better than Capela. But as anyone else here I could be wrong. I’m not a basketball guru.Uncle_Gene wrote: ↑Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:25 amSo you prefer the next Clint Capela (Bamba) over the next Embiid (Ayton) ?
I'm curious, what do you think Ayton will do better than Embiid?
As for Ayton. I’m hoping less turnovers and higher shooting % on offense and more Rebounds on defense. A double double machine that doesn’t hurt our offensive flow and can stay on the floor on defense. I hope he really plays hard on defense, that’s where he should take Embiid as a model.
Re: Rank our draft, and give your reasoning!
Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 4:20 am
I love this board. Thanks a lot, people. Hanging in there for sure ... =DSuperbone wrote: ↑Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:46 pmBruiser, I'm sorry you're going through that. Hang in there. This too will pass.Bruiser wrote: ↑Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:21 pmI get the idea of getting busy now and turning the franchise around in order to protect against developing a culture of losing but all of that is not enough reason for me to not put at least some sort of protection on the pick or package it with a Chriss for Fultz swap or something. Be creative but don't pay so much more than market value, please. To me that was unneccesay short-term thinking.AmareIsGod wrote: ↑Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:04 amSomeone made a good point regarding the MIA pick in 2021 being part of the trade we made. You don't bank on the potential of that being a good pick, which would need a season or two anyways to develop while letting Booker age another 4-5 years. You need to take advantage of having him here, having him happy and having him on a winning team. We need to do what we need to do to get a competitive and good team rolling today, not focus on 2021.
Got to admit tough that I am going through a pretty rough patch in life right now so it might be me being extremely pessimistic and a rather negative person overall. So I am sorry for that. I would actually hate to be right and I am more than ever rooting for all of our new guys to make me eat my words.
Go Suns!
Go Suns!
Re: Rank our draft, and give your reasoning!
Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 5:16 am
If you need a hug, just let me know. You may have to take a train to Amsterdam for it, but it will probably be worth it.Bruiser wrote: ↑Tue Jun 26, 2018 4:20 amI love this board. Thanks a lot, people. Hanging in there for sure ... =DSuperbone wrote: ↑Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:46 pmBruiser, I'm sorry you're going through that. Hang in there. This too will pass.Bruiser wrote: ↑Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:21 pmI get the idea of getting busy now and turning the franchise around in order to protect against developing a culture of losing but all of that is not enough reason for me to not put at least some sort of protection on the pick or package it with a Chriss for Fultz swap or something. Be creative but don't pay so much more than market value, please. To me that was unneccesay short-term thinking.AmareIsGod wrote: ↑Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:04 amSomeone made a good point regarding the MIA pick in 2021 being part of the trade we made. You don't bank on the potential of that being a good pick, which would need a season or two anyways to develop while letting Booker age another 4-5 years. You need to take advantage of having him here, having him happy and having him on a winning team. We need to do what we need to do to get a competitive and good team rolling today, not focus on 2021.
Got to admit tough that I am going through a pretty rough patch in life right now so it might be me being extremely pessimistic and a rather negative person overall. So I am sorry for that. I would actually hate to be right and I am more than ever rooting for all of our new guys to make me eat my words.
Go Suns!
Go Suns!
Re: Rank our draft, and give your reasoning!
Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 6:19 am
He did this stuff well in college. The knock on his defense is because he didn't defend the rim as well as you would expect. He defended his man pretty well (even on the perimeter), but he wasn't much help when the defense broke down somewhere else on the court.Indy wrote: ↑Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:38 pmHave you seen him do these things, or are you thinking that based on his foot speed, length, and athleticism that he will be able to do that (and good coaching)?In2ition wrote: ↑Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:58 pmSwitch out onto the perimeter, defend the perimeter and pick and rolls, and defend drives to the basket.Hermen wrote: ↑Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:15 pmBball-ref is great for this. In the regular season their Offensive rating was much better when Embiid played, but it was the other way around in the playoffs when his post-ups were killing them. As far as the contribution to winning goes, even in the playoffs their net rating was better with Embiid, because he's a great defender. Even last season when the Sixers were still terrible they had a positive net rating when Embiid played.gosuns wrote: ↑Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:03 pmI actually think Ayton could be better and more stable than Embiid. Embiid looks flashy, but his contribution to winning is, in my opinion, overrated. I saw what the Sixers did without Embiid. I believe the Sixers offense was equal with him sitting. Also i value interior defense more than post offense. And Bamba would have been much cheaper than Capela. Plus Bamba has the potential to be much better than Capela. But as anyone else here I could be wrong. I’m not a basketball guru.Uncle_Gene wrote: ↑Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:25 am
So you prefer the next Clint Capela (Bamba) over the next Embiid (Ayton) ?
I'm curious, what do you think Ayton will do better than Embiid?
Re: Rank our draft, and give your reasoning!
Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 11:43 am
I was not a Bender fan prior to the draft last year. Not a huge fan now but I could be. I think that Bender has a natural talent for spacing with other bigs. He made Len look better when they played together because he gave the ball to him when he had the space to work. If he can manage to keep himself on the court I think that his spacing could be very underestimated as to the effect it has on the line ups he plays in.
Re: Rank our draft, and give your reasoning!
Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 11:58 am
Can you teach aggression tho? Confidence is one thing, but if a guy is too passive and is just floating on the perimeter and looking to pass every time he touches the ball, I don't know how you remedy that.
Re: Rank our draft, and give your reasoning!
Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 12:14 pm
I will start by saying this isn't a great (or even good) comparison, but hear me out. Aggression on offense and defense seems to be a different mindset, and I think we can encourage the defensive intensity easier than the offensive (especially with the a new coach and new defensive scheme).
A guy like Draymond is seen as a monster and really aggressive, but really it is only on the defensive side. He takes less than 9 shots a game, and Bender is at 6. If we can find a way to get him more involved in defensive schemes and bring out some aggression there, I think part of that will carry over on the offensive side. And honestly, if one of our biggest minute lineups is going to be Booker, Jackson, Bridges, Bender and Ayton, Bender should easily be the 5th option. I don't need him to do much beside pass and run the floor to stop any breaks until our defense can get set.
Re: Rank our draft, and give your reasoning!
Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 12:55 pm
That makes a lot of sense to me. He does seem to have good shot blocking instincts too. I'm really hoping this new coaching staff can help make a big improvement in his game.Indy wrote: ↑Tue Jun 26, 2018 12:14 pmI will start by saying this isn't a great (or even good) comparison, but hear me out. Aggression on offense and defense seems to be a different mindset, and I think we can encourage the defensive intensity easier than the offensive (especially with the a new coach and new defensive scheme).
A guy like Draymond is seen as a monster and really aggressive, but really it is only on the defensive side. He takes less than 9 shots a game, and Bender is at 6. If we can find a way to get him more involved in defensive schemes and bring out some aggression there, I think part of that will carry over on the offensive side. And honestly, if one of our biggest minute lineups is going to be Booker, Jackson, Bridges, Bender and Ayton, Bender should easily be the 5th option. I don't need him to do much beside pass and run the floor to stop any breaks until our defense can get set.
Re: Rank our draft, and give your reasoning!
Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 1:00 pm
Couldn't agree more.Indy wrote: ↑Tue Jun 26, 2018 12:14 pmI will start by saying this isn't a great (or even good) comparison, but hear me out. Aggression on offense and defense seems to be a different mindset, and I think we can encourage the defensive intensity easier than the offensive (especially with the a new coach and new defensive scheme).
A guy like Draymond is seen as a monster and really aggressive, but really it is only on the defensive side. He takes less than 9 shots a game, and Bender is at 6. If we can find a way to get him more involved in defensive schemes and bring out some aggression there, I think part of that will carry over on the offensive side. And honestly, if one of our biggest minute lineups is going to be Booker, Jackson, Bridges, Bender and Ayton, Bender should easily be the 5th option. I don't need him to do much beside pass and run the floor to stop any breaks until our defense can get set.
Re: Rank our draft, and give your reasoning!
Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 1:12 pm
Fair, but Dray is also a huge part of initiating the offense and getting assists. They play through him, which is different than Bender standing and watching and then not even looking at the basket once he gets the ball or immediately passing it without letting anything develop. Dray is a playmaker in that sense.
At the very least, he needs to be a reliable knockdown shooter.
At the very least, he needs to be a reliable knockdown shooter.
Re: Rank our draft, and give your reasoning!
Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 1:54 pm
I saw very little of him initiating the offense in the finals. Felt like it was Durant Iso and Curry craziness about 75% of the time. Not saying I don't agree that Bender needs to hit his shots, but I would expect him to be the 4th guy you want shooting the ball past 20 feet. And he would have to be a better shooter than Dray. Man, it was brutal watching him forced to take shots in the playoffs. You just knew he was going to miss the 3, especially if he was wide open.ShelC wrote: ↑Tue Jun 26, 2018 1:12 pmFair, but Dray is also a huge part of initiating the offense and getting assists. They play through him, which is different than Bender standing and watching and then not even looking at the basket once he gets the ball or immediately passing it without letting anything develop. Dray is a playmaker in that sense.
At the very least, he needs to be a reliable knockdown shooter.
I just looked it up. He shot 27% from 3 in the playoffs.
Our top 3 shooters from 3 this year were Daniels, Booker, and Bender.