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Re: Game Day: Suns (2-9) @ Pelicans (5-6), Sat 11/10/18
Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 6:09 pm
by Nodack
The Suns put up the stats of Davis and Aytons first 11 games in the league and Ayton had better stats in every catagory except blocks. He is a rookie. Let him be a rookie and make his rookie mistakes and learn what it takes to play agaist people like Davis. Ayton seemed like he was a little intimidated by Davis to start the game. As the game worn on Ayton started to have some success. He needs lots of work but he is already an automatic double double.
EJ said on the telecast the Gentry didn’t want Booker to beat them and put Holiday on him and every time Booker made any kind of a move with the ball help came.
I don’t like losing but I do see a nucleus forming. He have Booker and Ayton as our big two but, Warren has really made a push to solidify his spot as #3 with much improved 3pt shooting. He can now score from anywhere.
Two spots left
Re: Game Day: Suns (2-9) @ Pelicans (5-6), Sat 11/10/18
Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 9:05 pm
by JeremyG
UglyTruth wrote: ↑Sun Nov 11, 2018 2:03 am
Has Ayton had any game this season in which he played well or put up good #s BEFORE the game got out of hand?
I’ll check the advanced metrics in the morning but I’m gonna guess he’s one of the worst 1st quarter and maybe even 1st half players in the league.
Ayton’s third quarter work was keeping them in the game. It wasn’t out of hand until he went out for an extended period of time, after he got banged up late in the third.
Re: Game Day: Suns (2-9) @ Pelicans (5-6), Sat 11/10/18
Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 9:07 pm
by JeremyG
ShelC wrote: ↑Sun Nov 11, 2018 7:55 am
Maybe we should try establishing our big man in the post at the start of the game, get some easy baskets, maybe get opposing big men in trouble, open up the perimeter for our shooters BEFORE the game gets out of hand? Maybe the game gets out of hand because we play 4-round and have our guys taking long jumpers which lead to long rebounds which lead to layups on the other end.
Exactly. That’s how we got off to such a great start against Dallas!
After the Marion trade, even D’Antoni knew he had to start games by going into Shaq at the beginning.
Re: Game Day: Suns (2-9) @ Pelicans (5-6), Sat 11/10/18
Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 9:53 pm
by djy2j
Real iffy on whether Igor makes it through this entire season. These blow outs wont go over well with management.
Love the strides TJ has made. Can't have 0 point games though. Those are puzzling to me because of his offensive abilities.
I don't know why JAckson has hit such a wall. He really does nothing well right now. You need something to build from and right now he has chose nothing to hang his hat on and this will continue to be a struggle for him until he finds something.
Re: Game Day: Suns (2-9) @ Pelicans (5-6), Sat 11/10/18
Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 10:11 pm
by n4th4n
Being a rookie is no excuse for being absolute trash on D. JJJ is playing passably on D for the Griz. Fking Robinson had NINE blocks tonight for the Knicks. WCJ has been awesome for the Bulls defensively. Even Bagley is TRYING. Bamba is overmatched but has the instincts to protect the rim. Ayton is worse than anything I have ever seen.
Re: Game Day: Suns (2-9) @ Pelicans (5-6), Sat 11/10/18
Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:51 am
by Hermen
Democritus wrote: ↑Sun Nov 11, 2018 1:03 pm
The Bobster wrote: ↑Sun Nov 11, 2018 12:33 pm
Democritus wrote: ↑Sun Nov 11, 2018 11:24 am
All scouting reports without exception said that Ayton lacks effort and awareness in the defensive end. So I'm not suprised at all. He is what he is. It is not on him. Its on McD who should have chosen Doncic instead.
Because Doncic is a defensive terror.
He must be because other than that, Ayton has better numbers so far.
You wing does not have to protect the paint and the rim as your so-called "Generational Center" who only watches the guards who are half of his size passing by for an easy layup or dunk. A modern center must be a defensive juggernaut to have any significant impact on the game today.
I was in the Doncic camp before the draft, but there's no point in judging who the better pick is. They both show talent, have weaknesses and aren't leading their teams anywhere right now. Luckily, neither looks like Fultz, Bender or Jackson
Give it a few years.
Re: Game Day: Suns (2-9) @ Pelicans (5-6), Sat 11/10/18
Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:14 am
by Mori Chu
ShelC wrote: ↑Sun Nov 11, 2018 7:55 am
Maybe we should try establishing our big man in the post at the start of the game, get some easy baskets, maybe get opposing big men in trouble, open up the perimeter for our shooters BEFORE the game gets out of hand? Maybe the game gets out of hand because we play 4-round and have our guys taking long jumpers which lead to long rebounds which lead to layups on the other end.
Watson and Triano even ran several plays early in games to get freaking Len involved early. But we can't do that for a #1 draft pick stud center like Ayton?
Re: Game Day: Suns (2-9) @ Pelicans (5-6), Sat 11/10/18
Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:22 am
by O_Gardino
n4th4n wrote: ↑Sun Nov 11, 2018 10:11 pm
Being a rookie is no excuse for being absolute trash on D. JJJ is playing passably on D for the Griz. Fking Robinson had NINE blocks tonight for the Knicks. WCJ has been awesome for the Bulls defensively. Even Bagley is TRYING. Bamba is overmatched but has the instincts to protect the rim. Ayton is worse than anything I have ever seen.
I just want to point out that Ayton is far more valuable to us than any of those other guys are to their teams.
We are trash when he sits. Both the offense and defense are significantly worse when he is off the court, believe it or not. He is the only guy on the team with a positive BPM. Literally the only guy. He has the best defensive BPM on in the top 9, the best defensive rating in the top 9, 3x the defensive win shares of any other player, and the attention he draws on offense gets open shots for his teammates.
So I don't mind that his mistakes keep him out of foul trouble. He's a rookie and he's going to make rookie mistakes. He can take chances on blocking shots and get into foul trouble or take chances on guarding his man and give up layups.
I hope that he can grow into a guy who blocks shots. But for now, I'm content that he clan play more minutes than the other guys you listed. Because if he played 25 minutes instead of 32, we would be losing these games by 30.
Code: Select all
mp/g pf/36 blk/36
Ayton 32.5 2.9 0.8
Carter 26.2 4.2 2.9
JJJ 24.9 5.4 2.2
Bagley 22.6 3.2 2.0
Bamba 19.2 3.7 3.2
Robinson 18.5 4.5 3.6
Re: Game Day: Suns (2-9) @ Pelicans (5-6), Sat 11/10/18
Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:23 am
by O_Gardino
djy2j wrote: ↑Sun Nov 11, 2018 9:53 pm
Real iffy on whether Igor makes it through this entire season. These blow outs wont go over well with management.
I have this deep fear that James Jones will take over as coach.
Re: Game Day: Suns (2-9) @ Pelicans (5-6), Sat 11/10/18
Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:42 am
by Xylus
n4th4n wrote: ↑Sun Nov 11, 2018 10:11 pm
Being a rookie is no excuse for being absolute trash on D. JJJ is playing passably on D for the Griz. Fking Robinson had NINE blocks tonight for the Knicks. WCJ has been awesome for the Bulls defensively. Even Bagley is TRYING. Bamba is overmatched but has the instincts to protect the rim. Ayton is worse than anything I have ever seen.
From everything I've watched (missed watching a couple of games recently), Ayton isn't a bad one-on-one defender, nor is he bad when he gets switched to a guard. It's just his help defense that's below average. He doesn't seem to know where to be when an opposing wing blows past his defender and gets into the paint.
Re: Game Day: Suns (2-9) @ Pelicans (5-6), Sat 11/10/18
Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:51 am
by ShelC
No issues with his man defense and he can guard the 3pt line using his length to keep guards from both driving and getting an easy look. His recovery defense in PnR and his lateral movement around the hoop is terrible. With his agility, he should be flashing out on PnR and recovering back to the paint easily. I don't think that's the design of the defense tho (not Ayton's fault) so he keeps getting caught in no man's land.
Re: Game Day: Suns (2-9) @ Pelicans (5-6), Sat 11/10/18
Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:54 am
by Indy
O_Gardino wrote: ↑Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:22 am
n4th4n wrote: ↑Sun Nov 11, 2018 10:11 pm
Being a rookie is no excuse for being absolute trash on D. JJJ is playing passably on D for the Griz. Fking Robinson had NINE blocks tonight for the Knicks. WCJ has been awesome for the Bulls defensively. Even Bagley is TRYING. Bamba is overmatched but has the instincts to protect the rim. Ayton is worse than anything I have ever seen.
I just want to point out that Ayton is far more valuable to us than any of those other guys are to their teams.
We are trash when he sits. Both the offense and defense are significantly worse when he is off the court, believe it or not. He is the only guy on the team with a positive BPM. Literally the only guy. He has the best defensive BPM on in the top 9, the best defensive rating in the top 9, 3x the defensive win shares of any other player, and the attention he draws on offense gets open shots for his teammates.
So I don't mind that his mistakes keep him out of foul trouble. He's a rookie and he's going to make rookie mistakes. He can take chances on blocking shots and get into foul trouble or take chances on guarding his man and give up layups.
I hope that he can grow into a guy who blocks shots. But for now, I'm content that he clan play more minutes than the other guys you listed. Because if he played 25 minutes instead of 32, we would be losing these games by 30.
Code: Select all
mp/g pf/36 blk/36
Ayton 32.5 2.9 0.8
Carter 26.2 4.2 2.9
JJJ 24.9 5.4 2.2
Bagley 22.6 3.2 2.0
Bamba 19.2 3.7 3.2
Robinson 18.5 4.5 3.6
Like
Re: Game Day: Suns (2-9) @ Pelicans (5-6), Sat 11/10/18
Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:14 am
by n4th4n
O_Gardino wrote: ↑Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:22 am
n4th4n wrote: ↑Sun Nov 11, 2018 10:11 pm
Being a rookie is no excuse for being absolute trash on D. JJJ is playing passably on D for the Griz. Fking Robinson had NINE blocks tonight for the Knicks. WCJ has been awesome for the Bulls defensively. Even Bagley is TRYING. Bamba is overmatched but has the instincts to protect the rim. Ayton is worse than anything I have ever seen.
I just want to point out that Ayton is far more valuable to us than any of those other guys are to their teams.
We are trash when he sits. Both the offense and defense are significantly worse when he is off the court, believe it or not. He is the only guy on the team with a positive BPM. Literally the only guy. He has the best defensive BPM on in the top 9, the best defensive rating in the top 9, 3x the defensive win shares of any other player, and the attention he draws on offense gets open shots for his teammates.
So I don't mind that his mistakes keep him out of foul trouble. He's a rookie and he's going to make rookie mistakes. He can take chances on blocking shots and get into foul trouble or take chances on guarding his man and give up layups.
I hope that he can grow into a guy who blocks shots. But for now, I'm content that he clan play more minutes than the other guys you listed. Because if he played 25 minutes instead of 32, we would be losing these games by 30.
Code: Select all
mp/g pf/36 blk/36
Ayton 32.5 2.9 0.8
Carter 26.2 4.2 2.9
JJJ 24.9 5.4 2.2
Bagley 22.6 3.2 2.0
Bamba 19.2 3.7 3.2
Robinson 18.5 4.5 3.6
I couldn't disagree with this more. He already has bad instincts when comes to protecting the rim and help defense. This is just reinforcing bad habits. He needs to start learning
now if he has any hope of ever becoming a passable defensive center. I would rather see him contest every shot and foul the fuck out in 20 minutes and adjust from there instead of this passive nonsense. We are already losing every game by 20. We need to do something to change the energy and temperament of this team.
Re: Game Day: Suns (2-9) @ Pelicans (5-6), Sat 11/10/18
Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:25 am
by djy2j
Also not sure why we hang on to Crawford. We need another scoring threat and so far Crawford has relegated to looking to score only when he has the ball with 1 second left on the shot clock. His level of tentativeness so far makes Bender look aggressive. Not sure what he's doing.
Re: Game Day: Suns (2-9) @ Pelicans (5-6), Sat 11/10/18
Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:02 am
by Indy
n4th4n wrote: ↑Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:14 am
O_Gardino wrote: ↑Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:22 am
n4th4n wrote: ↑Sun Nov 11, 2018 10:11 pm
Being a rookie is no excuse for being absolute trash on D. JJJ is playing passably on D for the Griz. Fking Robinson had NINE blocks tonight for the Knicks. WCJ has been awesome for the Bulls defensively. Even Bagley is TRYING. Bamba is overmatched but has the instincts to protect the rim. Ayton is worse than anything I have ever seen.
I just want to point out that Ayton is far more valuable to us than any of those other guys are to their teams.
We are trash when he sits. Both the offense and defense are significantly worse when he is off the court, believe it or not. He is the only guy on the team with a positive BPM. Literally the only guy. He has the best defensive BPM on in the top 9, the best defensive rating in the top 9, 3x the defensive win shares of any other player, and the attention he draws on offense gets open shots for his teammates.
So I don't mind that his mistakes keep him out of foul trouble. He's a rookie and he's going to make rookie mistakes. He can take chances on blocking shots and get into foul trouble or take chances on guarding his man and give up layups.
I hope that he can grow into a guy who blocks shots. But for now, I'm content that he clan play more minutes than the other guys you listed. Because if he played 25 minutes instead of 32, we would be losing these games by 30.
Code: Select all
mp/g pf/36 blk/36
Ayton 32.5 2.9 0.8
Carter 26.2 4.2 2.9
JJJ 24.9 5.4 2.2
Bagley 22.6 3.2 2.0
Bamba 19.2 3.7 3.2
Robinson 18.5 4.5 3.6
I couldn't disagree with this more. He already has bad instincts when comes to protecting the rim and help defense. This is just reinforcing bad habits. He needs to start learning
now if he has any hope of ever becoming a passable defensive center. I would rather see him contest every shot and foul the fuck out in 20 minutes and adjust from there instead of this passive nonsense. We are already losing every game by 20. We need to do something to change the energy and temperament of this team.
Ayton is by far our best offensive player, and is a top defensive player. The more he plays, the better the team plays. We need to keep him engaged and on the court.
Re: Game Day: Suns (2-9) @ Pelicans (5-6), Sat 11/10/18
Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:16 am
by Cap
Indy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:02 am
n4th4n wrote: ↑Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:14 am
O_Gardino wrote: ↑Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:22 am
n4th4n wrote: ↑Sun Nov 11, 2018 10:11 pm
Being a rookie is no excuse for being absolute trash on D. JJJ is playing passably on D for the Griz. Fking Robinson had NINE blocks tonight for the Knicks. WCJ has been awesome for the Bulls defensively. Even Bagley is TRYING. Bamba is overmatched but has the instincts to protect the rim. Ayton is worse than anything I have ever seen.
I just want to point out that Ayton is far more valuable to us than any of those other guys are to their teams.
We are trash when he sits. Both the offense and defense are significantly worse when he is off the court, believe it or not. He is the only guy on the team with a positive BPM. Literally the only guy. He has the best defensive BPM on in the top 9, the best defensive rating in the top 9, 3x the defensive win shares of any other player, and the attention he draws on offense gets open shots for his teammates.
So I don't mind that his mistakes keep him out of foul trouble. He's a rookie and he's going to make rookie mistakes. He can take chances on blocking shots and get into foul trouble or take chances on guarding his man and give up layups.
I hope that he can grow into a guy who blocks shots. But for now, I'm content that he clan play more minutes than the other guys you listed. Because if he played 25 minutes instead of 32, we would be losing these games by 30.
Code: Select all
mp/g pf/36 blk/36
Ayton 32.5 2.9 0.8
Carter 26.2 4.2 2.9
JJJ 24.9 5.4 2.2
Bagley 22.6 3.2 2.0
Bamba 19.2 3.7 3.2
Robinson 18.5 4.5 3.6
I couldn't disagree with this more. He already has bad instincts when comes to protecting the rim and help defense. This is just reinforcing bad habits. He needs to start learning
now if he has any hope of ever becoming a passable defensive center. I would rather see him contest every shot and foul the f*** out in 20 minutes and adjust from there instead of this passive nonsense. We are already losing every game by 20. We need to do something to change the energy and temperament of this team.
Ayton is by far our best offensive player, and is a top defensive player. The more he plays, the better the team plays. We need to keep him engaged and on the court.
We’re getting killed either way, and Richaun is hella fun to watch, so Ayton getting into occasional foul trouble might not be the worst thing in the world.
Re: Game Day: Suns (2-9) @ Pelicans (5-6), Sat 11/10/18
Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:49 pm
by Indy
I get that. But is it going to be good for the team to be down +30 in most of our games?
Re: Game Day: Suns (2-9) @ Pelicans (5-6), Sat 11/10/18
Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:08 pm
by UglyTruth
JeremyG wrote: ↑Sun Nov 11, 2018 9:05 pm
UglyTruth wrote: ↑Sun Nov 11, 2018 2:03 am
Has Ayton had any game this season in which he played well or put up good #s BEFORE the game got out of hand?
I’ll check the advanced metrics in the morning but I’m gonna guess he’s one of the worst 1st quarter and maybe even 1st half players in the league.
Ayton’s third quarter work was keeping them in the game. It wasn’t out of hand until he went out for an extended period of time, after he got banged up late in the third.
Why can't he play in the 1st QTR the same way he did in the 3rd QTR?
Re: Game Day: Suns (2-9) @ Pelicans (5-6), Sat 11/10/18
Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:11 pm
by UglyTruth
Indy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:02 am
Ayton is by far our best offensive player, and
is a top defensive player. The more he plays, the better the team plays. We need to keep him engaged and on the court.
Are you joking? There is a limit to even homerism. Jesus Christ, there's no way you've been actually watching any Suns games if you think he's a "top defensive player". You can say he might end up being one on day, sure, it's possible because he's so young and has great physical tools but to think that he is one right now is insane.
Re: Game Day: Suns (2-9) @ Pelicans (5-6), Sat 11/10/18
Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:11 pm
by UglyTruth
I'm glad Kokoskov is going after Ayton for being so damn passive early in games.