Page 6 of 6
Re: The Luka Doncic is Great, Woe is Us thread
Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:03 am
by JeremyG
Speaking of Ayton's defensive stats:
And after last night, he is now ahead of Gobert and alone in 4th place (-8.3, .387), just behind Anthony Davis (among players who have played at least 15 games).
Last season, his differential was exactly 0.0, meaning players hit their exact season average when going against him. A huge improvement this year.
Re: The Luka Doncic is Great, Woe is Us thread
Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:38 am
by BookTheGoat
AmareIsGod wrote: ↑Wed Jan 29, 2020 4:22 pm
Indy wrote: ↑Wed Jan 29, 2020 1:03 pm
phatmike wrote: ↑Wed Jan 29, 2020 12:56 pm
Indy wrote: ↑Wed Jan 29, 2020 12:17 pm
Ring_Wanted wrote: ↑Wed Jan 29, 2020 12:15 pm
Ayton has been really effective on defense this season. I posted some stats showing how he's keeping players at very low %s. Can't complain at all, especially considering how bad he was last syear, wich reveals tremendous improvement.
agreed. The early numbers in extremely limited minutes are still holding up, which is great to see. He is getting much better about not bringing his arms down. Still happens too much, but getting better. (He needs to learn to do that on offense too)
I don't disagree with your keeping arms up comment... just wanted to point out that there have been cases this year where DA looks simply gassed. I still think he's rounding into shape and I think that with that he will have more energy to do a lot of things we want him to do... battle for position, block out, arms up, etc. He has been given such an athletic frame, but it a very large one - the energy demands to move it like we want him to must be tremendous.
that is fair. But he is literally paid 10 million dollars as a 21 year old to play basketball. He needs to be in good enough shape to do that.
Tyler Johnson is paid 19.25 million dollars to cheer from the bench and/or come in and provide nothing.
Are we holding Ayton and Tyler Johnson to the same standard? Plus, we all know Tyler’s contract was poison pilled and the AAV actually wasn’t that egregious, right?
Re: The Luka Doncic is Great, Woe is Us thread
Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 6:19 am
by Indy
don't let logic get in the way BTG.
Re: The Luka Doncic is Great, Woe is Us thread
Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 6:21 am
by Indy
JeremyG wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:03 am
Speaking of Ayton's defensive stats:
And after last night, he is now ahead of Gobert and alone in 4th place (-8.3, .387), just behind Anthony Davis (among players who have played at least 15 games).
Last season, his differential was exactly 0.0, meaning players hit their exact season average when going against him. A huge improvement this year.
Even without the stats, you feel it this year watching him play. He has games where he is a difference maker at key times on offense, and others on defense. I would love to see him get there on both ends at the same time, for most games. Would love to have a 2020s version of Shaq/Kobe where our Kobe is the older/wiser one, and our Shaq is the young one.
Re: The Luka Doncic is Great, Woe is Us thread
Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 8:01 am
by AmareIsGod
Indy wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 6:21 am
JeremyG wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:03 am
Speaking of Ayton's defensive stats:
And after last night, he is now ahead of Gobert and alone in 4th place (-8.3, .387), just behind Anthony Davis (among players who have played at least 15 games).
Last season, his differential was exactly 0.0, meaning players hit their exact season average when going against him. A huge improvement this year.
Even without the stats, you feel it this year watching him play. He has games where he is a difference maker at key times on offense, and others on defense. I would love to see him get there on both ends at the same time, for most games. Would love to have a 2020s version of Shaq/Kobe where our Kobe is the older/wiser one, and our Shaq is the young one.
Agree. Would be amazing. They both have the talent to be that version too.
Re: The Luka Doncic is Great, Woe is Us thread
Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 8:09 am
by Cap
AmareIsGod wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 8:01 am
Indy wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 6:21 am
JeremyG wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:03 am
Speaking of Ayton's defensive stats:
And after last night, he is now ahead of Gobert and alone in 4th place (-8.3, .387), just behind Anthony Davis (among players who have played at least 15 games).
Last season, his differential was exactly 0.0, meaning players hit their exact season average when going against him. A huge improvement this year.
Even without the stats, you feel it this year watching him play. He has games where he is a difference maker at key times on offense, and others on defense. I would love to see him get there on both ends at the same time, for most games. Would love to have a 2020s version of Shaq/Kobe where our Kobe is the older/wiser one, and our Shaq is the young one.
Agree. Would be amazing. They both have the talent to be that version too.
Ayton is nothing like Shaq, though he might yet turn out to be a superstar in his own way.
And Book only resembles Kobe on one end of the floor.
Re: The Luka Doncic is Great, Woe is Us thread
Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 8:09 am
by virtual9mm
AmareIsGod wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 8:01 am
Indy wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 6:21 am
JeremyG wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:03 am
Speaking of Ayton's defensive stats:
And after last night, he is now ahead of Gobert and alone in 4th place (-8.3, .387), just behind Anthony Davis (among players who have played at least 15 games).
Last season, his differential was exactly 0.0, meaning players hit their exact season average when going against him. A huge improvement this year.
Even without the stats, you feel it this year watching him play. He has games where he is a difference maker at key times on offense, and others on defense. I would love to see him get there on both ends at the same time, for most games. Would love to have a 2020s version of Shaq/Kobe where our Kobe is the older/wiser one, and our Shaq is the young one.
Agree. Would be amazing. They both have the talent to be that version too.
What's interesting is that Ayton really has a boy's body, believe it or not. Still baby fat on his face, bouncy and athletic but still lacking the strength of a grown man like Baynes. Just imagine the terror he'll be once he fills out.
Re: The Luka Doncic is Great, Woe is Us thread
Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 8:55 am
by jonh
Cap wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 8:09 am
AmareIsGod wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 8:01 am
Indy wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 6:21 am
JeremyG wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:03 am
Speaking of Ayton's defensive stats:
And after last night, he is now ahead of Gobert and alone in 4th place (-8.3, .387), just behind Anthony Davis (among players who have played at least 15 games).
Last season, his differential was exactly 0.0, meaning players hit their exact season average when going against him. A huge improvement this year.
Even without the stats, you feel it this year watching him play. He has games where he is a difference maker at key times on offense, and others on defense. I would love to see him get there on both ends at the same time, for most games. Would love to have a 2020s version of Shaq/Kobe where our Kobe is the older/wiser one, and our Shaq is the young one.
Agree. Would be amazing. They both have the talent to be that version too.
Ayton is nothing like Shaq, though he might yet turn out to be a superstar in his own way.
And Book only resembles Kobe on one end of the floor.
I still hold out hope that Booker's D will continue to improve, especially if the team around him improves.
Re: The Luka Doncic is Great, Woe is Us thread
Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 9:25 am
by In2ition
jonh wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 8:55 am
Cap wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 8:09 am
AmareIsGod wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 8:01 am
Indy wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 6:21 am
JeremyG wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:03 am
Speaking of Ayton's defensive stats:
And after last night, he is now ahead of Gobert and alone in 4th place (-8.3, .387), just behind Anthony Davis (among players who have played at least 15 games).
Last season, his differential was exactly 0.0, meaning players hit their exact season average when going against him. A huge improvement this year.
Even without the stats, you feel it this year watching him play. He has games where he is a difference maker at key times on offense, and others on defense. I would love to see him get there on both ends at the same time, for most games. Would love to have a 2020s version of Shaq/Kobe where our Kobe is the older/wiser one, and our Shaq is the young one.
Agree. Would be amazing. They both have the talent to be that version too.
Ayton is nothing like Shaq, though he might yet turn out to be a superstar in his own way.
And Book only resembles Kobe on one end of the floor.
I still hold out hope that Booker's D will continue to improve, especially if the team around him improves.
I know the defensive advanced metrics don't show him as a good defensive player, but he's made a lot of great defensive plays this year, and it seems that the number of crazy bad defensive plays that I've noticed have been drastically reduced this year. I hope it continues to improve. I would like this narrative to go away, just like the "inefficiency" one did and the "literally only scores" one did.
Re: The Luka Doncic is Great, Woe is Us thread
Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 9:26 am
by Indy
jonh wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 8:55 am
Cap wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 8:09 am
AmareIsGod wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 8:01 am
Indy wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 6:21 am
JeremyG wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:03 am
Speaking of Ayton's defensive stats:
And after last night, he is now ahead of Gobert and alone in 4th place (-8.3, .387), just behind Anthony Davis (among players who have played at least 15 games).
Last season, his differential was exactly 0.0, meaning players hit their exact season average when going against him. A huge improvement this year.
Even without the stats, you feel it this year watching him play. He has games where he is a difference maker at key times on offense, and others on defense. I would love to see him get there on both ends at the same time, for most games. Would love to have a 2020s version of Shaq/Kobe where our Kobe is the older/wiser one, and our Shaq is the young one.
Agree. Would be amazing. They both have the talent to be that version too.
Ayton is nothing like Shaq, though he might yet turn out to be a superstar in his own way.
And Book only resembles Kobe on one end of the floor.
I still hold out hope that Booker's D will continue to improve, especially if the team around him improves.
Agreed. When he is focused and locked in, he is good.
When you look at both of their year 5 seasons, they are really similar. Book is quite a bit more efficient scoring-wise, and Kobe has twice the stocks.
Book is a +3 between ORTG and DRTG, and Kobe was a +7 (lower offense, but better defense).
Re: The Luka Doncic is Great, Woe is Us thread
Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:25 am
by Superbone
Indy wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 9:26 am
jonh wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 8:55 am
Cap wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 8:09 am
AmareIsGod wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 8:01 am
Indy wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 6:21 am
Even without the stats, you feel it this year watching him play. He has games where he is a difference maker at key times on offense, and others on defense. I would love to see him get there on both ends at the same time, for most games. Would love to have a 2020s version of Shaq/Kobe where our Kobe is the older/wiser one, and our Shaq is the young one.
Agree. Would be amazing. They both have the talent to be that version too.
Ayton is nothing like Shaq, though he might yet turn out to be a superstar in his own way.
And Book only resembles Kobe on one end of the floor.
I still hold out hope that Booker's D will continue to improve, especially if the team around him improves.
Agreed. When he is focused and locked in, he is good.
When you look at both of their year 5 seasons, they are really similar. Book is quite a bit more efficient scoring-wise, and
Kobe has twice the stocks.
Book is a +3 between ORTG and DRTG, and Kobe was a +7 (lower offense, but better defense).
I don't think their financials should enter into it. Plus, how many bonds did Kobe have? Maybe Book's stock/bond ratio is just a little more conservative.
Re: The Luka Doncic is Great, Woe is Us thread
Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:28 am
by Indy
sorry, i hate the term too. I was on a conference call and went with the abbreviated version as opposed to steals and blocks.
Re: The Luka Doncic is Great, Woe is Us thread
Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:34 am
by Cap
Indy wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:28 am
sorry, i hate the term too. I was on a conference call and went with the abbreviated version as opposed to steals and blocks.
How come nobody ever says bleals?
Re: The Luka Doncic is Great, Woe is Us thread
Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:44 am
by Indy
you just did!
Re: The Luka Doncic is Great, Woe is Us thread
Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:49 am
by jonh
Cap wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:34 am
Indy wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:28 am
sorry, i hate the term too. I was on a conference call and went with the abbreviated version as opposed to steals and blocks.
How come nobody ever says bleals?
Poibounds sounds like an interesting statistic.
Re: The Luka Doncic is Great, Woe is Us thread
Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:53 am
by O_Gardino
Cap wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:34 am
Indy wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:28 am
sorry, i hate the term too. I was on a conference call and went with the abbreviated version as opposed to steals and blocks.
How come nobody ever says bleals?
I do now.
Re: The Luka Doncic is Great, Woe is Us thread
Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:56 am
by Mori Chu
Cap wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:34 am
Indy wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:28 am
sorry, i hate the term too. I was on a conference call and went with the abbreviated version as opposed to steals and blocks.
How come nobody ever says bleals?
Bleal's been pretty good for the Wiz this year, but it's weird watching him play without John Wall.
Re: The Luka Doncic is Great, Woe is Us thread
Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:03 am
by Split T
I’m very wary of advanced defensive metrics...some of them are very misleading. Advanced metrics in general aren’t great in basketball. I definitely think they provide value, but there’s nothing like WAR in baseball. Basketball is too much of a team sport to really pull out 1 individuals contribution and assign value to it.
Re: The Luka Doncic is Great, Woe is Us thread
Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:14 am
by O_Gardino
Split T wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:03 am
I’m very wary of advanced defensive metrics...some of them are very misleading. Advanced metrics in general aren’t great in basketball. I definitely think they provide value, but there’s nothing like WAR in baseball. Basketball is too much of a team sport to really pull out 1 individuals contribution and assign value to it.
+1