Suns News: Offseason

[3rdside]

I still like Rubio and would prefer to keep him on the team - the point about IT, we need to be careful not to repeat that same mistake .. There's a number of stats that show Rubio is integral to this team's success (summarised by saying his pass first approach creates synergy effects) so I don't think it's wise to just toss him on the heap for FVV in a swap move.

Here's another one - Rubio ranks 15th in PIPM (Player Impact Plus Minus - https://www.bball-index.com/player-impact-plus-minus/) a newish metric that seems to have more than just a bit of credibility attached to it by looking at the players on the list:

Rank Name Team PIPM
1 Giannis Antetokounmpo MIL 9
2 Kawhi Leonard LAC 6.42
3 LeBron James LAL 6.1
4 James Harden HOU 5.98
5 Luka Doncic DAL 4.87
6 Chris Paul OKC 4.63
7 Anthony Davis LAL 4.55
8 Rudy Gobert UTAH 4.52
9 Jayson Tatum BOS 4.38
10 Khris Middleton MIL 4.25
11 Kristaps Porzingis DAL 4.15
12 Nikola Jokic DEN 3.72
13 Hassan Whiteside POR 3.68
14 Brook Lopez MIL 3.68
15 Ricky Rubio PHX 3.58
16 Jimmy Butler MIA 3.54
17 Eric Bledsoe MIL 3.52
18 Karl-Anthony Towns MIN 3.45
19 Joel Embiid PHI 3.36
20 Duncan Robinson MIA 3.21
21 Paul George LAC 3.2
22 Pascal Siakam TOR 3.18
23 Damian Lillard POR 2.99
24 Christian Wood DET 2.98
25 Nikola Vucevic ORL 2.96
26 Kyle Lowry TOR 2.83
27 Bam Adebayo MIA 2.81

[Flagrant Fowl]

I have my doubts about a metric that has Whiteside and Bledsoe in the top 20.

[Indy]

I have my doubts about a metric that has Whiteside and Bledsoe in the top 20.

And any plus/minus metric is limited to who you are replacing. Of course Giannis is near the top. When he is out, the person replacing him this year was Ilysasova, Marvin Williams and Dragan Bender.

Rubio had zero NBA PGs to back him up. He looks all-world compared to them.

[3rdside]

They could be outliers, as Rubio could be as well, but here's another one .. stats don't often tell the story but they do suggest a story, especially when there's more than one of them.

[jonh]

Do people not realize FVV has been playing alongside Kyle Lowry the last two years? How come OKC is successful running CP3/Schroeder/SGA lineups? Dragic/Bledsoe worked well before IT.

Good point! Luckily we don't have a good starting SG, so we can slot FVV right in alongside Rubio. It's perfect!! #champs #fvvtosuns

OKC manages to do it with 3 guards. There’s 96 minutes at guard. 36 to Booker, 32 to FVV, 28 to Rubio. You can do that without playing any of them at the 3.

Which is what happened to Dragic if i'm not mistaken.

Yes, not everyone was on the same page back then. All 3 were better with the ball in their hands. Dragic was the best off the ball and got relegated to off ball because of that, even though he was probably the best on ball of the 3 too.

This situation is different, Booker is very good off ball, so is VanVleet, even Rubio showed he can hit shots this year. Even still, you put Rubio on the bench and he’s gonna play a lot of minutes on ball. It keeps his minutes down in the mid to high 20’s which keeps him healthy and fresh. It keeps a ball handler on the court when Booker rests.

The downside is dumping oubre for nothing if FVV isn’t interested.

This reminds me of the great quote by George Santayana "those who do not learn history are doomed to be Suns fans".

[Split T]

[In2ition]

"July 2017: Shortly after placing live goats in McDonough’s office, Sarver decided to reward his GM with a contract extension and with a caveat. He told McDonough he was also hiring James Jones as vice president of basketball operations.

Jones was hired to cover for McDonough’s weak spots, namely communicating and fostering relationships with players in the locker room. But McDonough surely felt threatened. And his standing in the organization was about to get worse."

The extension at this point seems like a "oh boy that didn't go as I meant it, I'm sorry. Here, take more money and I'll get you some help.

[Indy]

Is there anything in that article that is new? We had heard about Watson/Paul. We had heard about Igor saying he sleeps well at night. We had heard Sarver say Ryan was the GM, and Ryan say Sarver didn't let him be the GM. I assumed, but probably never heard directly, that the entire locker room knew what was going on.

I didn't know that Sarver and Jones scouted Luka and didn't invite Ryan.

[Mori Chu]

I don't think I have the stomach to read an article like that and relive the ugliness of our front office's past. Sarver is a real impediment to this team ever winning a title. From his cheapness to his meddling to his poor instinct for choosing people to hire to help run the team, he's almost a perfect storm of bad ownership. Almost all of our organization's problems for the past 16 years can be traced back to him at the top.

[Split T]

Is there anything in that article that is new? We had heard about Watson/Paul. We had heard about Igor saying he sleeps well at night. We had heard Sarver say Ryan was the GM, and Ryan say Sarver didn't let him be the GM. I assumed, but probably never heard directly, that the entire locker room knew what was going on.

I didn't know that Sarver and Jones scouted Luka and didn't invite Ryan.

No nothing really new. Just put all together in one article. Some of the info is more recent. Some of the info on Watson wasn’t new, but maybe had a few more details.

[Indy]

Is there anything in that article that is new? We had heard about Watson/Paul. We had heard about Igor saying he sleeps well at night. We had heard Sarver say Ryan was the GM, and Ryan say Sarver didn't let him be the GM. I assumed, but probably never heard directly, that the entire locker room knew what was going on.

I didn't know that Sarver and Jones scouted Luka and didn't invite Ryan.

No nothing really new. Just put all together in one article. Some of the info is more recent. Some of the info on Watson wasn’t new, but maybe had a few more details.

I saw Amin on twitter said there was a ton in there that was new to him...

[Split T]

Probably new to someone who’s not following suns media super closely.

[Pips]

And biggest question who decide to pick Ayton over Luka ofc didnt answered.

[Split T]

McD doesn’t want to admit it, but he was giddy about Ayton. He was 100% on Team Ayton and missed on Doncic.

[Pips]

Sarver used that to pick Bridges.

[Shabazz]

McD doesn’t want to admit it, but he was giddy about Ayton. He was 100% on Team Ayton and missed on Doncic.

Yup. Just watch that presser he did after the Ayton workout. It was a done deal.

[Indy]

Probably new to someone who’s not following suns media super closely.

He is a former Suns FO member. That is the only reason I went to find the article this morning. Oh well, I think it just confirms what we already knew. Sarver may be an awful owner, but we were fortunate enough to pair him with an awful GM (and even a worse coach!).

[Nodack]

I can’t really blame anyone for picking Ayton. I wasn’t an expert on either of them and the consensus seemed to be split 50/50 on Ayton or Doncic. Everyone knew Doncic would be the better player early because of his experience. Many thought Ayton would eventually grow into his potential and perhaps become the better player eventually. Doncic has blown past expectations and that has made the Ayton pick harder to swallow for some. Ayton as passive as he is is putting up remarkable numbers. This isn‘t over yet.

[ShelC]

Always draft the basketball player, not the guy who plays basketball.

Simple, but not easy.

[ShelC]

https://arizonasports.com/story/2367815 ... xt-season/

“The word on the street about the Suns is they intend to reduce their spending,” he said Tuesday.

Windhorst additionally cited the sale of the Suns’ G League team to the Detroit Pistons and the stock of owner Robert Sarver’s company being down.

“We are going into a year where there are some teams that are facing tens of millions in losses,” he said. “Depending on whether you can sell tickets, there are teams that may face 30, 40, 50 million in losses next year. The difference between 10 million dollars in losses and 30 million dollars in losses may be signing a 20 million dollar player.”

That $20 million for the Suns could theoretically go to someone like upcoming free agent guard Fred VanVleet, who they have been linked to by The Athletic’s Shams Charania, but Windhorst doesn’t see it because of what he had mentioned.

“I would be stunned if that was the case,” he said of a potential pursuit by the Suns.