Phx-Suns.Net

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Fri Jul 07, 2023 8:42 am

Sunsfanatic76 wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 06, 2023 10:38 pm

Second salary dump of the Ishbia regime, btw.

Three salary dumps and counting...

Split T wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 15, 2023 9:48 am

I think McConnell is better for us than Payne, but not overall a significantly better player. Just more reliable and a better fit.

I've wanted McConnell on this team for years. Perfect role playing point guard. I knew it was too good to be true...

SunsSince92 wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 16, 2023 8:43 am

But again, you just got him to sign for one year. So even if you do "develop" him, you're doing it for another team to benefit.

I've always liked Bol Bol, but it seems strange that we bring him, but don't give Bazley a chance, or sign Mo Bamba (Bamba would have made more sense).

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 16, 2023 10:49 am

This is a terrible trade that will likely end up hurting us.

Split T wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 16, 2023 10:56 am

Terrible trade is a stretch…

I agree that "terrible" is going too far, but it is disappointing to see Payne wasted like this.

I get Payne was inconsistent and had injury issues, but it seems silly to dump on him and then prop up players they haven't done anything. Payne has actually made positive contributions in the playoffs multiple times that have led to PLAYOFF wins. But yeah, let's talk about 2-way Saben and Goodwin's 60 games playing for a lottery team.

Wally_West wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 16, 2023 10:58 am

Point guard is still a position that matters. Positionless basketball really applies to positions 2-4 more than anything else.

Even the Bulls didn't waste Pippen and Jordan with bringing the ball up every possession, or having to chase a faster point guard around. That's what Ron Harper was for.

I don't think this tweet is going to age well, but we'll see.

TOO wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 16, 2023 7:29 pm

They brought Lee in off the streets and he looked better than Payne last year.

Well first, Lee and Payne played two different roles. Secondly, Lee was basically a non-factor the second half of the season.

Mori Chu wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 17, 2023 12:04 pm

This Payne trade is a good example not to take everything the team/FO says as gospel.

“Brad, Jordan and Isaiah will all help us in our quest for a championship." - James Jones.

Shabazz wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 17, 2023 4:12 pm

Tate or Pritchard would be nice, but the bummer is, had we made these moves earlier, we could have had KJ Martin or Obi Toppin for 2 second rounders.

Ugh, thanks for reminding me.

Martin or Toppin would have been tremendous. And the best thing would have been that we would have had their bird rights. I don't think just rolling with the Big 3 + 1 and changing everyone around them each season is winning strategy or the pathway to sustained success.

I really wish we had prioritized getting players with bird rights. We basically just have Goodwin, Camara, and Okogie (early bird).

Someone woke up with a bowl full of piss instead of Cheerios. Welcome back. Let the pessimism rain. What was that 7 8 or so posts in a row taking jabs at the FO and ownership? Third salary dump and counting under this regime. Is there anything you can get ecstatic or excited about? Do you feel like this is a crash and burn roster? Or do we want to nit-pick the fringe edges of the roster to track perceived failures?

Ya I don’t care about salary dumps on guys in the back third of the roster…though we probably should have just not guaranteed Payne’s salary if we were going to straight dump him.

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 18, 2023 3:36 am

SunsSince92 wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 16, 2023 8:43 am

But again, you just got him to sign for one year. So even if you do "develop" him, you're doing it for another team to benefit.

I've always liked Bol Bol, but it seems strange that we bring him, but don't give Bazley a chance, or sign Mo Bamba (Bamba would have made more sense).

The dude that can't stay healthy and has been given actual chances and shown jack shit? He signed a one-year deal with Philadelphia, largely influenced by his desire to play with Embiid.

Split T wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 18, 2023 8:08 am

Ya I don’t care about salary dumps on guys in the back third of the roster…though we probably should have just not guaranteed Payne’s salary if we were going to straight dump him.

I think they wanted to trade him for a player, but were willing to settle for the trade exception so they'd have some flexibility going forward.

The Bobster wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 18, 2023 8:34 am

Split T wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 18, 2023 8:08 am

Ya I don’t care about salary dumps on guys in the back third of the roster…though we probably should have just not guaranteed Payne’s salary if we were going to straight dump him.

I think they wanted to trade him for a player, but were willing to settle for the trade exception so they'd have some flexibility going forward.

Agreed. I'm sure their first thought wasn't straight to "trade exception" or "straight dump him".

Can we really say with any sort of certainty that we didn’t prioritize players with bird rights? I mean, the assumption is that we could’ve traded Payne to the Spurs earlier and gotten the same deal. But do we know that for sure? That we didn’t try to move him for other players and/or the Spurs wanted to see what other moves were made before eventually accepting this one? McConnell *is* too good to be true. He’s a better player than Payne in all but one thing — kamikaze drives to the basket… ok he’s also not as good or willing of a three point shooter, so two things. But he’s a better player and I still don’t see why the Pacers would want Payne over him. Or Boston Payne over Pritchard. Or any number of other proposed trades.

Why are we assuming we could trade Payne for anything? I like the guy but aside from his game 6 effort vs Denver he gave us nothing last yr in the playoffs. Also why are we mentioning guys like Thomas Bryant and Mo Bamba who were unplayable in the playoffs last yr? I'm not sure the people who are propping them up have actually seen them play basketball. I'm not big on Bol at all and doubt he'll be anything but agonizing over guys who can't get PT on any contenders is silly. Would of rather of kept that spot open.

I haven't been a fan of James Jones the last 2 years. But him,ishba,whoever have done a nice job of filling out the roster and getting creative this offseason. These pick swaps (particularly the next 3 years) will be really insignificant unless Durant or Booker get hurt. If they're not than a lot of people will be fired from this regime.

Inf your salary cap dump posts make no sense and unfortunately come off as you basically having an agenda against management. The fact you think Ishba is doing trades strictly to save money after what's been going on is really hard to see. Todd and Payne were dealt more for trade exceptions/picks and flexibility. Now you can argue Payne is more valuable than what they traded him for..I think that's legit but to act like a trade exception/picks/flexibility isn't what the suns have in mind is nonsense.

pickle wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 18, 2023 8:52 am

But he’s a better player and I still don’t see why the Pacers would want Payne over him.

In the reported trade talks, Payne wasn't going to Indiana.

We didn't get a pick for trading Payne. We gave up a pick and got a conditional pick in return.

I agree with INF that it's dangerous to not have any players with bird rights or any players/tradeable contracts making between the minimum and the maximum. And if they don't use the TPE to keep that salary slot, then that's really bad.

What happened to overpaying our own free agents (such as Bazley or others) so we could hold on to tradeable contracts/salary slots? That rumor just went by the wayside.

Sunsfan4life wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 18, 2023 10:17 am

Why are we assuming we could trade Payne for anything?

I'm not. I just said the move was disappointing.

Sunsfan4life wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 18, 2023 10:17 am

Now you can argue Payne is more valuable than what they traded him for..I think that's legit but to act like a trade exception/picks/flexibility isn't what the suns have in mind is nonsense.

To act like it wasn't about saving money is also nonsense. I don't think the Suns had a burning desire to get another TPE and that's why they traded Payne. A $6.5 million TPE has limited utility. And yes, I do think keeping Payne around is more valuable.

And just to be clear, the Payne trade didn't add any picks. They are swapping second rounders with San Antonio. The Orlando draft pick move had nothing to do with the Payne move; they were just reported at the same time, probably strategically.

Sunsfan4life wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 18, 2023 10:17 am

Also why are we mentioning guys like Thomas Bryant and Mo Bamba who were unplayable in the playoffs last yr? I'm not sure the people who are propping them up have actually seen them play basketball.

So one, I have seen Thomas Bryant; that's why I am actually interested in acquiring him. Secondly, Denver acquired him late in the season. He plays the same position as Jokic. Denver had essentially 7.5 man rotation. To spin that into "Thomas Bryant is unplayable in the playoffs!" isn't accurate.

And Mo Bamba was injured, not unplayable. And again, the point was comparing these guys to Bol Bol. So even bringing up a playoff basketball argument seems irrelevant.

Sunsfan4life wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 18, 2023 10:17 am

Inf your salary cap dump posts make no sense and unfortunately come off as you basically having an agenda against management. The fact you think Ishba is doing trades strictly to save money after what's been going on is really hard to see. Todd and Payne were dealt more for trade exceptions/picks and flexibility.

I didn't say the moves were strictly made to save money. But I think it's disingenuous to act like moving salary wasn't a motivating factor. Dario Saric, who actually had some on court value, wasn't dealt midseason just to get a trade exception. He would have played against Denver.

Split T wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 18, 2023 8:08 am

Ya I don’t care about salary dumps on guys in the back third of the roster…though we probably should have just not guaranteed Payne’s salary if we were going to straight dump him.

Some of Payne's salary was already guaranteed, so I don't think they were keen on paying him to not play for us. And an effort was made to use him to get a player after his deal was guaranteed.

AmareIsGod wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 18, 2023 8:05 am

Someone woke up with a bowl full of piss instead of Cheerios. Welcome back. Let the pessimism rain.

Sorry for the post dump. I haven't been around to respond to things as they happen or as they are posted.