I'd be more interested in a trade that involves a mid/late lotto pick. I'd like to replace DA with a big like Mark WIlliams but I'm not sure the Suns even value bigs that much. They may know they have McGee and/or Biz locked in already for next year.
For me, it'd take DA signing some frontloaded poison pill max offer to even talk trade. If he's just signing a regular max offer, I'd match. But maybe the Suns are ready to move on and re-shape the roster.
I guess it depends on what DA's camp has said. If they said we prefer you don't match any offers because we want to play somewhere as the center of the offense, do you still match?
Yes, or you'll regret it forever like with Joe Johnson.
But if he absolutely demands out, then you'll have to do a S&T for mediocre assets, just like I've been predicting they will do since last summer.
"I'm a Deandre Ayton guy."--Al McCoy, September 21, 2022.
I guess it depends on your team building philosophy. What gets you further in the playoffs? A top 5 center at 30-35M and a below average backup initiator (10-15M), or an average center (~15-20M) and an above average backup initiator (~25-30M)? They cost about the same.
The thing is, by trading DA we’re not getting cap space for another $30M player.
So you’re talking about trading your $30M center and getting Landry Shametesque return worth of space.
Better to match for now unless blown away
It won't be a one for one. But if you could get back an above-average ball handler and scorer (especially on a rookie contract) while also getting a solid center, that improves our biggest area of need. We need guys that can actually dribble the ball that aren't CP3 and Book. Nobody else could do that consistently. So when one guy gets hurt, you are stuck with just one can that can dribble and you blitz him... ball game. And Book isn't tall enough like Butler or Tatum to see over the guys coming at him and make the right play. So he forces stuff and gets TOs.
The thing is, by trading DA we’re not getting cap space for another $30M player.
So you’re talking about trading your $30M center and getting Landry Shametesque return worth of space.
Better to match for now unless blown away
It won't be a one for one. But if you could get back an above-average ball handler and scorer (especially on a rookie contract) while also getting a solid center, that improves our biggest area of need. We need guys that can actually dribble the ball that aren't CP3 and Book. Nobody else could do that consistently. So when one guy gets hurt, you are stuck with just one can that can dribble and you blitz him... ball game. And Book isn't tall enough like Butler or Tatum to see over the guys coming at him and make the right play. So he forces stuff and gets TOs.
Yes yes so we can let Amare I mean Ayton go, and then get Gortat who is basically a great replacement and does 80% of the job, while getting Turkoglu as a solid secondary playmaker to take pressure off Nash I mean CP3/Book. The parts individually may not be 1:1 but the sum as a whole is….a giant turd because that’s not how the NBA works. You need stars. This ain’t the Oakland A’s.
I think a lot depends on what you get from the Ayton trade. It’s not about cap space. We won’t have cap space regardless. What we do have is this:
About 30 million in expiring contracts(Saric, Crowder, Craig, and Payne) plus another movable 9 million dollar contract in Shamet.
You can try and combine that stuff for another ball handler, but you’re not gonna get a good one unless you include a bunch of picks. That’s where Ayton comes in, he is much more likely to get you that ball handler, or at least get you pieces that can get you that ball handler.
At that point, that pile of expiring contracts can now more easily get you a replacement 5 and/or 4. That’s what it comes down to…cap space or no, it’s easier to find playable bigs than it is to find playable on ball creators.
If we can keep Ayton at the max and still go find a good on ball creator that can take pressure off Booker/Paul and get Sarver or the new owner to sign off on the tax bills, then I’m all for that. Assuming Ayton is also fine playing his same role. I just doubt our ability to do that. We can get Eric Gordon, but not sure that’s enough. Though I won’t hate it if we run back the team with Gordon being our big addition in a Craig/Shamet/1st for Gordon trade. Though I’d wonder why we didn’t do that at the deadline.
I would still hope that we add a small ball 5 type to come off the bench. Maybe that can be Saric, but I’d be nervous to put my trust solely in him.
Paul/Booker/Bridges/Crowder/Ayton
Payne/Gordon/Johnson/4 and small ball 5/Biyombo
Throw in Wainright and Saric plus some vet min contracts.
I could get behind that. Though I don’t think that team wins a title. Contender, but still got questions, especially health ones.
The thing is, by trading DA we’re not getting cap space for another $30M player.
So you’re talking about trading your $30M center and getting Landry Shametesque return worth of space.
Better to match for now unless blown away
It won't be a one for one. But if you could get back an above-average ball handler and scorer (especially on a rookie contract) while also getting a solid center, that improves our biggest area of need. We need guys that can actually dribble the ball that aren't CP3 and Book. Nobody else could do that consistently. So when one guy gets hurt, you are stuck with just one can that can dribble and you blitz him... ball game. And Book isn't tall enough like Butler or Tatum to see over the guys coming at him and make the right play. So he forces stuff and gets TOs.
Yes yes so we can let Amare I mean Ayton go, and then get Gortat who is basically a great replacement and does 80% of the job, while getting Turkoglu as a solid secondary playmaker to take pressure off Nash I mean CP3/Book. The parts individually may not be 1:1 but the sum as a whole is….a giant turd because that’s not how the NBA works. You need stars. This ain’t the Oakland A’s.
You’re too hung up on a terrible front office from 10+ years ago who completely botched the post Amare team. There’s no indication that this front office will do the same thing.
I'd be more interested in a trade that involves a mid/late lotto pick. I'd like to replace DA with a big like Mark WIlliams but I'm not sure the Suns even value bigs that much. They may know they have McGee and/or Biz locked in already for next year.
For me, it'd take DA signing some frontloaded poison pill max offer to even talk trade. If he's just signing a regular max offer, I'd match. But maybe the Suns are ready to move on and re-shape the roster.
I guess it depends on what DA's camp has said. If they said we prefer you don't match any offers because we want to play somewhere as the center of the offense, do you still match?
Yes, or you'll regret it forever like with Joe Johnson.
But if he absolutely demands out, then you'll have to do a S&T for mediocre assets, just like I've been predicting they will do since last summer.
I hope we don't lose you as a poster Jeremy if Ayton gets shipped out. I appreciate your conversation.
"Too little, too late, too unbothered."
- Phoenix Suns 2023-2024 season motto.
I'd be more interested in a trade that involves a mid/late lotto pick. I'd like to replace DA with a big like Mark WIlliams but I'm not sure the Suns even value bigs that much. They may know they have McGee and/or Biz locked in already for next year.
For me, it'd take DA signing some frontloaded poison pill max offer to even talk trade. If he's just signing a regular max offer, I'd match. But maybe the Suns are ready to move on and re-shape the roster.
I guess it depends on what DA's camp has said. If they said we prefer you don't match any offers because we want to play somewhere as the center of the offense, do you still match?
Yes, or you'll regret it forever like with Joe Johnson.
But if he absolutely demands out, then you'll have to do a S&T for mediocre assets, just like I've been predicting they will do since last summer.
I hope we don't lose you as a poster Jeremy if Ayton gets shipped out. I appreciate your conversation.
Do you think there’s any chance Portland would include Anfernee Simons in a S&T for Ayton? Not sure how we’d realistically do it as Simons would have to be S&T as well and that would mean we are hard capped. Portland does have some cap space though, so we could unload contracts on them. Also not sure how much Simons is gonna get paid, but he’d be a pretty ideal 3rd ball handler and someone who could slide right in next to Booker as our future backcourt for a long time. We’d get awfully small playing the 3 guards together, but not as small as Payne with Booker and Paul.
More realistically Portland would probably try to include Hart and whoever they take at 7…Hart impressed after being traded, but I don’t trust those numbers. Portland was absolutely playing garbage players and someone had to get the stats. I don’t think Hart is a real creator on a good team. I’d need Simons from Portland.
The thing is, by trading DA we’re not getting cap space for another $30M player.
So you’re talking about trading your $30M center and getting Landry Shametesque return worth of space.
Better to match for now unless blown away
It won't be a one for one. But if you could get back an above-average ball handler and scorer (especially on a rookie contract) while also getting a solid center, that improves our biggest area of need. We need guys that can actually dribble the ball that aren't CP3 and Book. Nobody else could do that consistently. So when one guy gets hurt, you are stuck with just one can that can dribble and you blitz him... ball game. And Book isn't tall enough like Butler or Tatum to see over the guys coming at him and make the right play. So he forces stuff and gets TOs.
Yes yes so we can let Amare I mean Ayton go, and then get Gortat who is basically a great replacement and does 80% of the job, while getting Turkoglu as a solid secondary playmaker to take pressure off Nash I mean CP3/Book. The parts individually may not be 1:1 but the sum as a whole is….a giant turd because that’s not how the NBA works. You need stars. This ain’t the Oakland A’s.
Oh you are right. I totally forgot about that and this is basically the same thing. Thanks for pointing it out!
PS--DA is not a star. And Paul's is fading fast. We have to get flexibility in our roster so we can make moves for when a star wants out (maybe KD, but who knows) like Toronto did for Leonard and got their chip.
I'd be more interested in a trade that involves a mid/late lotto pick. I'd like to replace DA with a big like Mark WIlliams but I'm not sure the Suns even value bigs that much. They may know they have McGee and/or Biz locked in already for next year.
For me, it'd take DA signing some frontloaded poison pill max offer to even talk trade. If he's just signing a regular max offer, I'd match. But maybe the Suns are ready to move on and re-shape the roster.
I guess it depends on what DA's camp has said. If they said we prefer you don't match any offers because we want to play somewhere as the center of the offense, do you still match?
Yes, or you'll regret it forever like with Joe Johnson.
But if he absolutely demands out, then you'll have to do a S&T for mediocre assets, just like I've been predicting they will do since last summer.
I hope we don't lose you as a poster Jeremy if Ayton gets shipped out. I appreciate your conversation.
Ayton will certainly produce wherever he’s at next year. I imagine he’ll put up pretty good numbers as whoever acquires him will want to feature him, so Jeremy will keep us updated I’m sure. Just hope whatever we end up with is better
In a vacuum, we cannot trade DA for a single player better than him at the same position.
And generally speaking you never get a player back better than the one you are sending out in a 1 for 1 trade unless that player has said they won't play anymore.
But you know what, having any center better than Ayton that wasn't Embiid or Jokic wouldn't have got us any further this year.
We need to stop thinking about this as who is a better player and instead look at who is a better fit. And that goes for every single position. You first pick who you are building your team around, then fill in from there. It is clear the Suns have not picked DA as their #1 guy. That is Devin Booker. You can argue and say he isn't a #1, but we did just see a team last year make the Finals with him as their best player, and he put up back to back 40 point games in the Finals and we wasted them. Now we need to find the best players we can to build around him. Mikal is a great start, but if he needs to go out to bring in a better fit, do it. Same with Paul or anyone.
The thing is, by trading DA we’re not getting cap space for another $30M player.
So you’re talking about trading your $30M center and getting Landry Shametesque return worth of space.
Better to match for now unless blown away
It won't be a one for one. But if you could get back an above-average ball handler and scorer (especially on a rookie contract) while also getting a solid center, that improves our biggest area of need. We need guys that can actually dribble the ball that aren't CP3 and Book. Nobody else could do that consistently. So when one guy gets hurt, you are stuck with just one can that can dribble and you blitz him... ball game. And Book isn't tall enough like Butler or Tatum to see over the guys coming at him and make the right play. So he forces stuff and gets TOs.
Yes yes so we can let Amare I mean Ayton go, and then get Gortat who is basically a great replacement and does 80% of the job, while getting Turkoglu as a solid secondary playmaker to take pressure off Nash I mean CP3/Book. The parts individually may not be 1:1 but the sum as a whole is….a giant turd because that’s not how the NBA works. You need stars. This ain’t the Oakland A’s.
You’re too hung up on a terrible front office from 10+ years ago who completely botched the post Amare team. There’s no indication that this front office will do the same thing.
No there isn’t, but there’s indication that people on this board and the rumor mill will. Miss me with these mediocre role players being discussed.
Poettl aka Marcin????
Mr. Glass from Toronto??
“Draft Pick” ???
If it ain’t a star or up-and-coming star, match DA and wait.
The lowest talent I’d be willing to accept is Sabonis or Jarrett Allen and another player and even then I’d rather hang on to DA.
In a vacuum, we cannot trade DA for a single player better than him at the same position.
And generally speaking you never get a player back better than the one you are sending out in a 1 for 1 trade unless that player has said they won't play anymore.
But you know what, having any center better than Ayton that wasn't Embiid or Jokic wouldn't have got us any further this year.
We need to stop thinking about this as who is a better player and instead look at who is a better fit. And that goes for every single position. You first pick who you are building your team around, then fill in from there. It is clear the Suns have not picked DA as their #1 guy. That is Devin Booker. You can argue and say he isn't a #1, but we did just see a team last year make the Finals with him as their best player, and he put up back to back 40 point games in the Finals and we wasted them. Now we need to find the best players we can to build around him. Mikal is a great start, but if he needs to go out to bring in a better fit, do it. Same with Paul or anyone.
Someone has to get a better player in a trade. You’re wrong.
We could be the team sending the “lesser” player for a star.
The thing is, by trading DA we’re not getting cap space for another $30M player.
So you’re talking about trading your $30M center and getting Landry Shametesque return worth of space.
Better to match for now unless blown away
It won't be a one for one. But if you could get back an above-average ball handler and scorer (especially on a rookie contract) while also getting a solid center, that improves our biggest area of need. We need guys that can actually dribble the ball that aren't CP3 and Book. Nobody else could do that consistently. So when one guy gets hurt, you are stuck with just one can that can dribble and you blitz him... ball game. And Book isn't tall enough like Butler or Tatum to see over the guys coming at him and make the right play. So he forces stuff and gets TOs.
Yes yes so we can let Amare I mean Ayton go, and then get Gortat who is basically a great replacement and does 80% of the job, while getting Turkoglu as a solid secondary playmaker to take pressure off Nash I mean CP3/Book. The parts individually may not be 1:1 but the sum as a whole is….a giant turd because that’s not how the NBA works. You need stars. This ain’t the Oakland A’s.
You’re too hung up on a terrible front office from 10+ years ago who completely botched the post Amare team. There’s no indication that this front office will do the same thing.
No there isn’t, but there’s indication that people on this board and the rumor mill will. Miss me with these mediocre role players being discussed.
Poettl aka Marcin????
Mr. Glass from Toronto??
“Draft Pick” ???
If it ain’t a star or up-and-coming star, match DA and wait.
The lowest talent I’d be willing to accept is Sabonis or Jarrett Allen and another player and even then I’d rather hang on to DA.
Who’s Mr. Glass? OG? He’s played 9 less games as Ayton over the last 4 years.
Poeltl is basically Marcin, I’ll give you that…but it wouldn’t just be him. We’ll have to disagree on the value of Vassell and #9 or Keldon Johnson though as I know you think that’s Josh Childress all over again for some reason.
And fair enough on needing Sabonis /Allen…I certainly understand that mentality. I’d prefer that to the spurs package, just not sure it’s gonna be an option.
If Ayton tells you he doesn’t want to come back and to let him go and that he’s not going to be happy just playing his role next year, what do you do? Imagine Poeltl, Vassell, and #9 or OG, #33, and a future 1st are the two offers on the table.
The thing is, by trading DA we’re not getting cap space for another $30M player.
So you’re talking about trading your $30M center and getting Landry Shametesque return worth of space.
Better to match for now unless blown away
It won't be a one for one. But if you could get back an above-average ball handler and scorer (especially on a rookie contract) while also getting a solid center, that improves our biggest area of need. We need guys that can actually dribble the ball that aren't CP3 and Book. Nobody else could do that consistently. So when one guy gets hurt, you are stuck with just one can that can dribble and you blitz him... ball game. And Book isn't tall enough like Butler or Tatum to see over the guys coming at him and make the right play. So he forces stuff and gets TOs.
Yes yes so we can let Amare I mean Ayton go, and then get Gortat who is basically a great replacement and does 80% of the job, while getting Turkoglu as a solid secondary playmaker to take pressure off Nash I mean CP3/Book. The parts individually may not be 1:1 but the sum as a whole is….a giant turd because that’s not how the NBA works. You need stars. This ain’t the Oakland A’s.
You’re too hung up on a terrible front office from 10+ years ago who completely botched the post Amare team. There’s no indication that this front office will do the same thing.
No there isn’t, but there’s indication that people on this board and the rumor mill will. Miss me with these mediocre role players being discussed.
Poettl aka Marcin????
Mr. Glass from Toronto??
“Draft Pick” ???
If it ain’t a star or up-and-coming star, match DA and wait.
The lowest talent I’d be willing to accept is Sabonis or Jarrett Allen and another player and even then I’d rather hang on to DA.
301 games in 5 years vs 236 in 4. Yeah, so different there.
I am all for matching his offer and waiting for a better fit. But waiting only works if he is willing to do his job and not quit on the team. And having a guy with a max contract that doesn't want to play for your team because he wants to get more shots is not a way to increase his value.
It won't be a one for one. But if you could get back an above-average ball handler and scorer (especially on a rookie contract) while also getting a solid center, that improves our biggest area of need. We need guys that can actually dribble the ball that aren't CP3 and Book. Nobody else could do that consistently. So when one guy gets hurt, you are stuck with just one can that can dribble and you blitz him... ball game. And Book isn't tall enough like Butler or Tatum to see over the guys coming at him and make the right play. So he forces stuff and gets TOs.
Yes yes so we can let Amare I mean Ayton go, and then get Gortat who is basically a great replacement and does 80% of the job, while getting Turkoglu as a solid secondary playmaker to take pressure off Nash I mean CP3/Book. The parts individually may not be 1:1 but the sum as a whole is….a giant turd because that’s not how the NBA works. You need stars. This ain’t the Oakland A’s.
You’re too hung up on a terrible front office from 10+ years ago who completely botched the post Amare team. There’s no indication that this front office will do the same thing.
No there isn’t, but there’s indication that people on this board and the rumor mill will. Miss me with these mediocre role players being discussed.
Poettl aka Marcin????
Mr. Glass from Toronto??
“Draft Pick” ???
If it ain’t a star or up-and-coming star, match DA and wait.
The lowest talent I’d be willing to accept is Sabonis or Jarrett Allen and another player and even then I’d rather hang on to DA.
Who’s Mr. Glass? OG? He’s played 9 less games as Ayton over the last 4 years.
Poeltl is basically Marcin, I’ll give you that…but it wouldn’t just be him. We’ll have to disagree on the value of Vassell and #9 or Keldon Johnson though as I know you think that’s Josh Childress all over again for some reason.
And fair enough on needing Sabonis /Allen…I certainly understand that mentality. I’d prefer that to the spurs package, just not sure it’s gonna be an option.
If Ayton tells you he doesn’t want to come back and to let him go and that he’s not going to be happy just playing his role next year, what do you do? Imagine Poeltl, Vassell, and #9 or OG, #33, and a future 1st are the two offers on the table.
Who cares what Ayton says. We’re toast without him anyway. There’s no scenario in which we lose him and actually improve as a team NEXT SEASON. Match it anyway and wait for the right deal or for him to get over it.
Organizations do that all the time.
Why would I imagine a bunch of pu pu platters on the table?
I’m hanging up the phone on Toronto if they call and mention deals that don’t include FVV, Siakam or Barnes. Not interested in helping other teams improve their roster while we get their spare parts. We are in control here: if they want a young talent who has improved every year in the league, they’re going to have to pay for it/
If the spurs want DA, they can find a way to make a deal work where they include Dejounte Murray. Sorry Spurs fans, when you trade a star you never get a 1:1 return!
It won't be a one for one. But if you could get back an above-average ball handler and scorer (especially on a rookie contract) while also getting a solid center, that improves our biggest area of need. We need guys that can actually dribble the ball that aren't CP3 and Book. Nobody else could do that consistently. So when one guy gets hurt, you are stuck with just one can that can dribble and you blitz him... ball game. And Book isn't tall enough like Butler or Tatum to see over the guys coming at him and make the right play. So he forces stuff and gets TOs.
Yes yes so we can let Amare I mean Ayton go, and then get Gortat who is basically a great replacement and does 80% of the job, while getting Turkoglu as a solid secondary playmaker to take pressure off Nash I mean CP3/Book. The parts individually may not be 1:1 but the sum as a whole is….a giant turd because that’s not how the NBA works. You need stars. This ain’t the Oakland A’s.
You’re too hung up on a terrible front office from 10+ years ago who completely botched the post Amare team. There’s no indication that this front office will do the same thing.
No there isn’t, but there’s indication that people on this board and the rumor mill will. Miss me with these mediocre role players being discussed.
Poettl aka Marcin????
Mr. Glass from Toronto??
“Draft Pick” ???
If it ain’t a star or up-and-coming star, match DA and wait.
The lowest talent I’d be willing to accept is Sabonis or Jarrett Allen and another player and even then I’d rather hang on to DA.
301 games in 5 years vs 236 in 4. Yeah, so different there.
I am all for matching his offer and waiting for a better fit. But waiting only works if he is willing to do his job and not quit on the team. And having a guy with a max contract that doesn't want to play for your team because he wants to get more shots is not a way to increase his value.
I wish you were my boss.
You’re letting a 23 year olds emotions dictate your organizational decisions. Think about that lol.
Yes yes so we can let Amare I mean Ayton go, and then get Gortat who is basically a great replacement and does 80% of the job, while getting Turkoglu as a solid secondary playmaker to take pressure off Nash I mean CP3/Book. The parts individually may not be 1:1 but the sum as a whole is….a giant turd because that’s not how the NBA works. You need stars. This ain’t the Oakland A’s.
You’re too hung up on a terrible front office from 10+ years ago who completely botched the post Amare team. There’s no indication that this front office will do the same thing.
No there isn’t, but there’s indication that people on this board and the rumor mill will. Miss me with these mediocre role players being discussed.
Poettl aka Marcin????
Mr. Glass from Toronto??
“Draft Pick” ???
If it ain’t a star or up-and-coming star, match DA and wait.
The lowest talent I’d be willing to accept is Sabonis or Jarrett Allen and another player and even then I’d rather hang on to DA.
301 games in 5 years vs 236 in 4. Yeah, so different there.
I am all for matching his offer and waiting for a better fit. But waiting only works if he is willing to do his job and not quit on the team. And having a guy with a max contract that doesn't want to play for your team because he wants to get more shots is not a way to increase his value.
I wish you were my boss.
You’re letting a 23 year olds emotions dictate your organizational decisions. Think about that lol.
If I had an employee that didn't want to work, why would I keep him around? Especially if my other workers said he doesn't do his part? Make no mistake that if Ayton gets traded, it is because Book and CP3 signed off on it.
