Phx-Suns.Net

The Bobster wrote:Let's face it - other teams look at the Suns like teams looked at the Clippers when they were horrible.

Sterling almost seemed to be doing it on purpose.

A better analogy might be the Sacramento Kings, who, except for a few years with Peja-CWebb-Vlade, have always been terrible, despite an apparently good faith effort to succeed.

33 seasons since moving to Sacto in '85, and outside of the eight-year run '98-'06, zero winning records.

Then time to bring in some very good free agents and figure out the optimal coaching situation.

I'm on the same page with everything you put with the exception above. What free agents? Who? We are not going win the bidding war with ANY other team who can offer the player the exact same amount of money. LA has 2 max spots open. So they get the first two Free Agents available that they covet. Chicago and Dallas also will have a ton of cap room. Chicago is a preferred destination over Phoenix as well. We'll get 4th pick of the litter of we're lucky in this off-season's free agent pool. Free agents are irrelevant to the Suns this offseason IMO

djy2j wrote:

Then time to bring in some very good free agents and figure out the optimal coaching situation.

I'm on the same page with everything you put with the exception above. What free agents? Who? We are not going win the bidding war with ANY other team who can offer the player the exact same amount of money. LA has 2 max spots open. So they get the first two Free Agents available that they covet. Chicago and Dallas also will have a ton of cap room. Chicago is a preferred destination over Phoenix as well. We'll get 4th pick of the litter of we're lucky in this off-season's free agent pool. Free agents are irrelevant to the Suns this offseason IMO

Only FA I'm interested in this offseason is Elf. Maybe in '19 we'll be in a better position to make a real impact signing.

And it's probably too soon to be shopping for second- or third-tier free agents since they'll have to overpay and having some cap flexibility for another year could be even more valuable.

The Bobster wrote:And it's probably too soon to be shopping for second- or third-tier free agents since they'll have to overpay and having some cap flexibility for another year could be even more valuable.

Exactly! Which is why I feel it is so important for McDo to trade our assets for a superstar on draft night. Without this, anything done after that day will only elongate "the timeline"

Superbone wrote:

LazarusLong wrote:Bottom line is that Sarver has turned a once-proud franchise into a basement-dwelling afterthought.

I'm tired of apologists saying "well, the Suns aren't really all that bad" or "happy days are around the corner."

The franchise has hit rock bottom and keeps digging.

Hey, I resemble that remark! Well, the second part anyway. The Suns really are that bad. However, I'm not an apologist. Excuse me for being an optimist no matter who is in charge of this team. This has to be rock bottom, doesn't it? If it isn't then Sarver and company are going to pay the price. If they're not careful, they're going to lose Booker and then all hell would break loose. That would be the straw that would break everybody's back including mine. I'd be very surprised if we don't turn the corner this off season. First, we should be drafting a game changer. Then time to bring in some very good free agents and figure out the optimal coaching situation. Time to ascend to the playoffs and more. If not, then we are all screwed.

You know this isn't the first season out of the last 3 or so where you posted the same question, right?

I know we suck right now but, I feel we aren’t that far away from being a decent team. Booker has grown to be an All Star caliber player. Warren has proven himself to be a high caliber player. Len took forever but, is playing like a legit big. Unfortunately we will probably lose him after this season. The PG position has been a total mess for a few years. If Payton can shore that up then we are in a much better position.

Chriss, Jackson and Bender are young wild cards that aren’t quite ready for prime time and may or may not be in the future like most young players trying to find themselves in the NBA. All three have shown signs of improvementthis year. Bender needs to put on some muscle and grow a pair. Jackson needs work. He’s predictable. He gets the ball and he is going to drive to the hoop and put up something no matter how many guys are covering him and no matter how horrible his angle is on the shot. His odds of driving and passing the ball are about 2%.

I think the entire Suns team has a reputation as whiners. They complain all the time and I think it hurts them with the refs. Let the refs do their job. Let the coach get a T if he thinks a message needs to be sent. Just play and keep your mouth shut.

Indy wrote:

Superbone wrote:

LazarusLong wrote:Bottom line is that Sarver has turned a once-proud franchise into a basement-dwelling afterthought.

I'm tired of apologists saying "well, the Suns aren't really all that bad" or "happy days are around the corner."

The franchise has hit rock bottom and keeps digging.

Hey, I resemble that remark! Well, the second part anyway. The Suns really are that bad. However, I'm not an apologist. Excuse me for being an optimist no matter who is in charge of this team. This has to be rock bottom, doesn't it? If it isn't then Sarver and company are going to pay the price. If they're not careful, they're going to lose Booker and then all hell would break loose. That would be the straw that would break everybody's back including mine. I'd be very surprised if we don't turn the corner this off season. First, we should be drafting a game changer. Then time to bring in some very good free agents and figure out the optimal coaching situation. Time to ascend to the playoffs and more. If not, then we are all screwed.

You know this isn't the first season out of the last 3 or so where you posted the same question, right?

This is far from rock bottom. Look at the Kings or Nets.

Ring_Wanted wrote:

Indy wrote:

Superbone wrote:

LazarusLong wrote:Bottom line is that Sarver has turned a once-proud franchise into a basement-dwelling afterthought.

I'm tired of apologists saying "well, the Suns aren't really all that bad" or "happy days are around the corner."

The franchise has hit rock bottom and keeps digging.

Hey, I resemble that remark! Well, the second part anyway. The Suns really are that bad. However, I'm not an apologist. Excuse me for being an optimist no matter who is in charge of this team. This has to be rock bottom, doesn't it? If it isn't then Sarver and company are going to pay the price. If they're not careful, they're going to lose Booker and then all hell would break loose. That would be the straw that would break everybody's back including mine. I'd be very surprised if we don't turn the corner this off season. First, we should be drafting a game changer. Then time to bring in some very good free agents and figure out the optimal coaching situation. Time to ascend to the playoffs and more. If not, then we are all screwed.

You know this isn't the first season out of the last 3 or so where you posted the same question, right?

This is far from rock bottom. Look at the Kings or Nets.

I'm talking about for us.

"This is far from rock bottom. Look at the Kings or Nets."

This exactly what I'm talking about.
Some fans are in denial or tone deaf.
The Suns franchise once upon a time had high standards.
Sarver's reign of error has dishonored the legacy.
Yet, like little kids, some want to deflect and say, "w-w-well, this team has been worse ..."

Superbone wrote:

Ring_Wanted wrote:

Indy wrote:

Superbone wrote:

LazarusLong wrote:Bottom line is that Sarver has turned a once-proud franchise into a basement-dwelling afterthought.

I'm tired of apologists saying "well, the Suns aren't really all that bad" or "happy days are around the corner."

The franchise has hit rock bottom and keeps digging.

Hey, I resemble that remark! Well, the second part anyway. The Suns really are that bad. However, I'm not an apologist. Excuse me for being an optimist no matter who is in charge of this team. This has to be rock bottom, doesn't it? If it isn't then Sarver and company are going to pay the price. If they're not careful, they're going to lose Booker and then all hell would break loose. That would be the straw that would break everybody's back including mine. I'd be very surprised if we don't turn the corner this off season. First, we should be drafting a game changer. Then time to bring in some very good free agents and figure out the optimal coaching situation. Time to ascend to the playoffs and more. If not, then we are all screwed.

You know this isn't the first season out of the last 3 or so where you posted the same question, right?

This is far from rock bottom. Look at the Kings or Nets.

I'm talking about for us.

Oh ok. Then sure it is. The Suns have never been this bad/mediocre for so long.

Ring_Wanted wrote:

Indy wrote:

Superbone wrote:

LazarusLong wrote:Bottom line is that Sarver has turned a once-proud franchise into a basement-dwelling afterthought.

I'm tired of apologists saying "well, the Suns aren't really all that bad" or "happy days are around the corner."

The franchise has hit rock bottom and keeps digging.

Hey, I resemble that remark! Well, the second part anyway. The Suns really are that bad. However, I'm not an apologist. Excuse me for being an optimist no matter who is in charge of this team. This has to be rock bottom, doesn't it? If it isn't then Sarver and company are going to pay the price. If they're not careful, they're going to lose Booker and then all hell would break loose. That would be the straw that would break everybody's back including mine. I'd be very surprised if we don't turn the corner this off season. First, we should be drafting a game changer. Then time to bring in some very good free agents and figure out the optimal coaching situation. Time to ascend to the playoffs and more. If not, then we are all screwed.

You know this isn't the first season out of the last 3 or so where you posted the same question, right?

This is far from rock bottom. Look at the Kings or Nets.

The Nets are better than us, and might have a better record next season, too.

O_Gardino wrote:The Nets are better than us, and might have a better record next season, too.

But they don't have their pick this season and their roster is overall less talented than ours. When I talk about rock bottom I don't mean strictly standings, but overall shape of the franchise. We have hope. I bet every Nets fan would swap rosters.

Ring_Wanted wrote:

O_Gardino wrote:The Nets are better than us, and might have a better record next season, too.

But they don't have their pick this season and their roster is overall less talented than ours. When I talk about rock bottom I don't mean strictly standings, but overall shape of the franchise. We have hope. I bet every Nets fan would swap rosters.

Rosters yes, but there's more to a franchise than that.

I think the Nets are in better shape as a franchise than us. They have a competent GM and a great coach who has his guys executing and playing hard every night. They have an established culture and are creating an identity. We're not close to that. Here's what Allen Crabbe said last week when someone asked how it feels for the Nets to be in last place: “Damn, I didn’t even know that. It doesn’t feel like it the way we’ve been playing and competing..."

Ring_Wanted wrote:

O_Gardino wrote:The Nets are better than us, and might have a better record next season, too.

But they don't have their pick this season and their roster is overall less talented than ours. When I talk about rock bottom I don't mean strictly standings, but overall shape of the franchise. We have hope. I bet every Nets fan would swap rosters.

They would take Booker, sure. Would they really swap the rest of their roster? I doubt it. Their fans should have some hope, because they have 2 solid years of good decision making from the front office.

ShelC wrote:I think the Nets are in better shape as a franchise than us. They have a competent GM and a great coach who has his guys executing and playing hard every night. They have an established culture and are creating an identity. We're not close to that. Here's what Allen Crabbe said last week when someone asked how it feels for the Nets to be in last place: “Damn, I didn’t even know that. It doesn’t feel like it the way we’ve been playing and competing..."

+1

ShelC wrote:I think the Nets are in better shape as a franchise than us. They have a competent GM and a great coach who has his guys executing and playing hard every night. They have an established culture and are creating an identity. We're not close to that. Here's what Allen Crabbe said last week when someone asked how it feels for the Nets to be in last place: “Damn, I didn’t even know that. It doesn’t feel like it the way we’ve been playing and competing..."

No way are the Nets in better shape than we are. We have a bunch of young talent and will likely get a top-3 pick in this draft. We have some bad spots like our awful owner and our need for a good coach going forward, but we have the seeds to build a strong contending team in a few years. The Nets absolutely do not have that. They traded away a ton of their picks and are going to spend the next 5-6 years on the outside looking in. That's great that they are "playing and competing," but that doesn't really count for anything when their roster is full of parts duct taped together that do not add up to a promising young team you can build around. Give me the 2018 Suns over Nets any day.

I agree, the Suns are in better shape than the Nets. I believe that the Suns could get the #1 pick this year and be a competent playoff team next year.

Put it this way....if the roster is your "body" and ownership/management is your "mind"....well the body is nothing without the mind. We can have more individual talent, which we've had in recent years, but if that talent doesn't mesh then what's the point? We've have talent on the roster, but if management and the coaching staff can't figure out what to do with it or screw up relationships, what's the point? If we can't establish an identity, what's the point? Can you honestly say we have a good culture around this organization? Or any culture for that matter? We've had Eric Bledsoe, Goran Dragic, Isaiah Thomas, the Morris Bros...all of whom are arguably more talented than anyone on the Nets roster the past 3 years, but where are they?

We have a ton of young talent in Booker, Warren, Jackson, Chriss, Bender and Payton. Are these the seeds to building a strong contending team? I can't say for sure. Booker's the most talented player between both rosters. But DAR's been playing well for the Nets and LeVert and Dinwiddie have developed into solid guards. The nets have RHJ, Joe Harris, DeMarre Carrol (a vet who can actually play). They need a lot of help up front, but once they get that squared away they'll rise quickly. They have Toronto's pick this year plus what should be a high 2nd rounder (either the Lakers' or Magic pick), their own pick next year and in 2020, so the draft pick situation isn't as dire as it seems.

I just think it all starts at the top, and that's where we've really been lacking.