Page 7 of 9
Re: Draft, trades, FA, fantasy rosterbation rebuild
Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:57 pm
by Indy
specialsauce wrote: ↑Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:55 pm
O_Gardino wrote: ↑Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:48 pm
carey wrote: ↑Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:45 pm
Shabazz wrote: ↑Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:00 pm
It should be telling to everyone on this board, that Indiana, a pretty smart organization, is perfectly content letting Collison go this summer and is strongly rumored to be going after Rubio as a replacement.
Explain why, please.
Collison is shooting 46/40/83. Dishes 6 assists at 3:1 a:to in 28 minutes per game. He put up a PER of 16.7 (Melton 9.9, Okobo 7.7, Tyler 12.5) which is better than league average I think. He has a 7 WS and a VORP of 1.8. (Melton WS 0, VORP -.1 - Okbo WS -.5, VORP -.9 - Tyler WS .5, VORP 0.)
I get the need to go after a star. I don't think there's any denying that Collison is a significant upgrade over anything we've had for a while though. The only thing that concerns me is he's 31 and his stats declined slightly from the year before.
It's just my assumption, but maybe Collison is looking for a larger and longer deal than the Pacers want to give him. Maybe he thinks he can get 3 or 4 years at the midlevel and the Pacers want to keep salary flexibility.
I'll take Collison over the other trash we're rumored to be interested in (Joseph, Beverly, Rubio)
That doesn't mean I'd be excited about it.
The real question is who would be excited to play here for what we can pay? I am not sure there is a Venn diagram that overlaps.
Re: Draft, trades, FA, fantasy rosterbation rebuild
Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:32 pm
by Split T
Welp
Could see him on the Lakers
Re: Draft, trades, FA, fantasy rosterbation rebuild
Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:44 pm
by specialsauce
Indy wrote: ↑Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:57 pm
specialsauce wrote: ↑Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:55 pm
O_Gardino wrote: ↑Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:48 pm
carey wrote: ↑Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:45 pm
Shabazz wrote: ↑Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:00 pm
It should be telling to everyone on this board, that Indiana, a pretty smart organization, is perfectly content letting Collison go this summer and is strongly rumored to be going after Rubio as a replacement.
Explain why, please.
Collison is shooting 46/40/83. Dishes 6 assists at 3:1 a:to in 28 minutes per game. He put up a PER of 16.7 (Melton 9.9, Okobo 7.7, Tyler 12.5) which is better than league average I think. He has a 7 WS and a VORP of 1.8. (Melton WS 0, VORP -.1 - Okbo WS -.5, VORP -.9 - Tyler WS .5, VORP 0.)
I get the need to go after a star. I don't think there's any denying that Collison is a significant upgrade over anything we've had for a while though. The only thing that concerns me is he's 31 and his stats declined slightly from the year before.
It's just my assumption, but maybe Collison is looking for a larger and longer deal than the Pacers want to give him. Maybe he thinks he can get 3 or 4 years at the midlevel and the Pacers want to keep salary flexibility.
I'll take Collison over the other trash we're rumored to be interested in (Joseph, Beverly, Rubio)
That doesn't mean I'd be excited about it.
The real question is who would be excited to play here for what we can pay? I am not sure there is a Venn diagram that overlaps.
What we CAN and are WILLING are two vastly different amounts. We could pay max money with some creativity. This front office doesn’t have the guts or know-how to do it.
We won’t be great without a leap of faith to become good. Nobody will want to come here until we’re at least good. And we can’t become good without acquiring some serious talent, which isn’t coming from FA and we’re too scared to take any risks with trades so we’re locked as a bottom dwelling team.
I envy the Mavs. That’s an organization with guts
Re: Draft, trades, FA, fantasy rosterbation rebuild
Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:17 pm
by Indy
specialsauce wrote: ↑Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:44 pm
Indy wrote: ↑Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:57 pm
specialsauce wrote: ↑Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:55 pm
O_Gardino wrote: ↑Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:48 pm
carey wrote: ↑Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:45 pm
Explain why, please.
Collison is shooting 46/40/83. Dishes 6 assists at 3:1 a:to in 28 minutes per game. He put up a PER of 16.7 (Melton 9.9, Okobo 7.7, Tyler 12.5) which is better than league average I think. He has a 7 WS and a VORP of 1.8. (Melton WS 0, VORP -.1 - Okbo WS -.5, VORP -.9 - Tyler WS .5, VORP 0.)
I get the need to go after a star. I don't think there's any denying that Collison is a significant upgrade over anything we've had for a while though. The only thing that concerns me is he's 31 and his stats declined slightly from the year before.
It's just my assumption, but maybe Collison is looking for a larger and longer deal than the Pacers want to give him. Maybe he thinks he can get 3 or 4 years at the midlevel and the Pacers want to keep salary flexibility.
I'll take Collison over the other trash we're rumored to be interested in (Joseph, Beverly, Rubio)
That doesn't mean I'd be excited about it.
The real question is who would be excited to play here for what we can pay? I am not sure there is a Venn diagram that overlaps.
What we CAN and are WILLING are two vastly different amounts. We could pay max money with some creativity. This front office doesn’t have the guts or know-how to do it.
We won’t be great without a leap of faith to become good. Nobody will want to come here until we’re at least good. And we can’t become good without acquiring some serious talent, which isn’t coming from FA and we’re too scared to take any risks with trades so we’re locked as a bottom dwelling team.
I envy the Mavs. That’s an organization with guts
They have won more than 50 games exactly one time this decade. And it was the first year of this decade when they won their ring. I am certainly jealous of that, especially that year because I think we could have taken Miami no problem.
But after that season, they haven't won more than 50 games, and have only had 2 winning seasons. They certainly have an owner willing to gamble, but none of it has paid off yet. It is looking good with Luca, and I admit that is who I wanted us to take. But it isn't like what they were doing this decade has helped them.
Re: Draft, trades, FA, fantasy rosterbation rebuild
Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:30 pm
by Flagrant Fowl
Split T wrote: ↑Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:32 pm
Welp
Could see him on the Lakers
I never wanted him on the Suns and was worried they'd overpay him.
Re: Draft, trades, FA, fantasy rosterbation rebuild
Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:36 pm
by Superbone
specialsauce wrote: ↑Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:44 pm
Indy wrote: ↑Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:57 pm
specialsauce wrote: ↑Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:55 pm
O_Gardino wrote: ↑Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:48 pm
carey wrote: ↑Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:45 pm
Explain why, please.
Collison is shooting 46/40/83. Dishes 6 assists at 3:1 a:to in 28 minutes per game. He put up a PER of 16.7 (Melton 9.9, Okobo 7.7, Tyler 12.5) which is better than league average I think. He has a 7 WS and a VORP of 1.8. (Melton WS 0, VORP -.1 - Okbo WS -.5, VORP -.9 - Tyler WS .5, VORP 0.)
I get the need to go after a star. I don't think there's any denying that Collison is a significant upgrade over anything we've had for a while though. The only thing that concerns me is he's 31 and his stats declined slightly from the year before.
It's just my assumption, but maybe Collison is looking for a larger and longer deal than the Pacers want to give him. Maybe he thinks he can get 3 or 4 years at the midlevel and the Pacers want to keep salary flexibility.
I'll take Collison over the other trash we're rumored to be interested in (Joseph, Beverly, Rubio)
That doesn't mean I'd be excited about it.
The real question is who would be excited to play here for what we can pay? I am not sure there is a Venn diagram that overlaps.
What we CAN and are WILLING are two vastly different amounts. We could pay max money with some creativity.
This front office doesn’t have the guts or know-how to do it.
We won’t be great without a leap of faith to become good. Nobody will want to come here until we’re at least good. And we can’t become good without acquiring some serious talent, which isn’t coming from FA and we’re too scared to take any risks with trades so we’re locked as a bottom dwelling team.
I envy the Mavs. That’s an organization with guts
Nobody here knows what this new FO has the guts or know-how to do. Not yet, anyway.
Re: Draft, trades, FA, fantasy rosterbation rebuild
Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:37 pm
by specialsauce
This is the same exact tune as last off-season and we ended up going with Canaan, Melton and Okobo.
Re: Draft, trades, FA, fantasy rosterbation rebuild
Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:38 pm
by Superbone
Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:30 pm
Split T wrote: ↑Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:32 pm
Welp
Could see him on the Lakers
I never wanted him on the Suns and was worried they'd overpay him.
He can go suck a pickle for all I care.
Re: Draft, trades, FA, fantasy rosterbation rebuild
Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:38 pm
by Superbone
specialsauce wrote: ↑Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:37 pm
This is the same exact tune as last off-season and we ended up going with Canaan, Melton and Okobo.
Different management. What’s that have to do with the price of tea in China?
Re: Draft, trades, FA, fantasy rosterbation rebuild
Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:42 pm
by Split T
specialsauce wrote: ↑Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:37 pm
This is the same exact tune as last off-season and we ended up going with Canaan, Melton and Okobo.
Huh? From our front office? Off season hasn’t even started. Jones has said pretty regularly that they need a pg
Re: Draft, trades, FA, fantasy rosterbation rebuild
Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:42 pm
by Shabazz
specialsauce wrote: ↑Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:55 pm
O_Gardino wrote: ↑Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:48 pm
carey wrote: ↑Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:45 pm
Shabazz wrote: ↑Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:00 pm
It should be telling to everyone on this board, that Indiana, a pretty smart organization, is perfectly content letting Collison go this summer and is strongly rumored to be going after Rubio as a replacement.
Explain why, please.
Collison is shooting 46/40/83. Dishes 6 assists at 3:1 a:to in 28 minutes per game. He put up a PER of 16.7 (Melton 9.9, Okobo 7.7, Tyler 12.5) which is better than league average I think. He has a 7 WS and a VORP of 1.8. (Melton WS 0, VORP -.1 - Okbo WS -.5, VORP -.9 - Tyler WS .5, VORP 0.)
I get the need to go after a star. I don't think there's any denying that Collison is a significant upgrade over anything we've had for a while though. The only thing that concerns me is he's 31 and his stats declined slightly from the year before.
It's just my assumption, but maybe Collison is looking for a larger and longer deal than the Pacers want to give him. Maybe he thinks he can get 3 or 4 years at the midlevel and the Pacers want to keep salary flexibility.
I'll take Collison over the other trash we're rumored to be interested in (Joseph, Beverly, Rubio)
That doesn't mean I'd be excited about it.
Yup. He's definitely an upgrade over what we had. His defense is also highly suspect, he's not "on the timeline" and he wouldn't move the needle enough towards relevance.
Re: Draft, trades, FA, fantasy rosterbation rebuild
Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:43 pm
by Indy
specialsauce wrote: ↑Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:37 pm
This is the same exact tune as last off-season and we ended up going with Canaan, Melton and Okobo.
I am certainly worried about that. We did nothing last year. I am hoping having a front office that isn't fighting each other will help.
Re: Draft, trades, FA, fantasy rosterbation rebuild
Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:43 pm
by Shabazz
specialsauce wrote: ↑Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:44 pm
Indy wrote: ↑Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:57 pm
specialsauce wrote: ↑Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:55 pm
O_Gardino wrote: ↑Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:48 pm
carey wrote: ↑Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:45 pm
Explain why, please.
Collison is shooting 46/40/83. Dishes 6 assists at 3:1 a:to in 28 minutes per game. He put up a PER of 16.7 (Melton 9.9, Okobo 7.7, Tyler 12.5) which is better than league average I think. He has a 7 WS and a VORP of 1.8. (Melton WS 0, VORP -.1 - Okbo WS -.5, VORP -.9 - Tyler WS .5, VORP 0.)
I get the need to go after a star. I don't think there's any denying that Collison is a significant upgrade over anything we've had for a while though. The only thing that concerns me is he's 31 and his stats declined slightly from the year before.
It's just my assumption, but maybe Collison is looking for a larger and longer deal than the Pacers want to give him. Maybe he thinks he can get 3 or 4 years at the midlevel and the Pacers want to keep salary flexibility.
I'll take Collison over the other trash we're rumored to be interested in (Joseph, Beverly, Rubio)
That doesn't mean I'd be excited about it.
The real question is who would be excited to play here for what we can pay? I am not sure there is a Venn diagram that overlaps.
What we CAN and are WILLING are two vastly different amounts. We could pay max money with some creativity. This front office doesn’t have the guts or know-how to do it.
We won’t be great without a leap of faith to become good. Nobody will want to come here until we’re at least good. And we can’t become good without acquiring some serious talent, which isn’t coming from FA and we’re too scared to take any risks with trades so we’re locked as a bottom dwelling team.
I envy the Mavs. That’s an organization with guts
Bingo.
Re: Draft, trades, FA, fantasy rosterbation rebuild
Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 4:33 pm
by carey
Those of you complaining about the likes of Collison, Teague, etc are going to get either Garland or White, or Melton back. Careful what you wish for.
Re: Draft, trades, FA, fantasy rosterbation rebuild
Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:54 pm
by carey
I'm reading we've been pursuing Aaron Holiday intensely. Do any trades make sense with Indy? I advocated for him heavily last draft. He didn't play all that much this year. Maybe they want our #32? I'm not exactly sure why we'd be after him with 2 of our own rookie guards to deal with.
Re: Draft, trades, FA, fantasy rosterbation rebuild
Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:07 pm
by In2ition
carey wrote: ↑Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:54 pm
I'm reading we've been pursuing Aaron Holiday intensely. Do any trades make sense with Indy? I advocated for him heavily last draft. He didn't play all that much this year. Maybe they want our #32? I'm not exactly sure why we'd be after him with 2 of our own rookie guards to deal with.
Especially when it could be argued that Melton is better.
Re: Draft, trades, FA, fantasy rosterbation rebuild
Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:13 pm
by Shabazz
Teague/Saric/#11 for Tyler/Jackson/#6
Draft Clarke at 11
Warren for Fournier (I don't love this)
Resign Bender
Teague/Melton
Booker/Fournier
Oubre/Mikal
Saric/Clarke
Ayton/Bender
Re: Draft, trades, FA, fantasy rosterbation rebuild
Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:15 pm
by In2ition
Shabazz wrote: ↑Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:13 pm
Teague/Saric/#11 for Tyler/Jackson/#6
Draft Clarke at 11
Warren for Fournier (I don't love this)
Resign Bender
Teague/Melton
Booker/Fournier
Oubre/Mikal
Saric/Clarke
Ayton/Bender
What does the cap look like after those moves?
Re: Draft, trades, FA, fantasy rosterbation rebuild
Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:17 pm
by specialsauce
Shabazz wrote: ↑Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:13 pm
Teague/Saric/#11 for Tyler/Jackson/#6
Draft Clarke at 11
Warren for Fournier (I don't love this)
Resign Bender
Teague/Melton
Booker/Fournier
Oubre/Mikal
Saric/Clarke
Ayton/Bender
I’d very much like that.
Re: Draft, trades, FA, fantasy rosterbation rebuild
Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:19 pm
by specialsauce
carey wrote: ↑Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:54 pm
I'm reading we've been pursuing Aaron Holiday intensely. Do any trades make sense with Indy? I advocated for him heavily last draft. He didn't play all that much this year. Maybe they want our #32? I'm not exactly sure why we'd be after him with 2 of our own rookie guards to deal with.
Doesn’t make sense to me not significantly different from them