Phx-Suns.Net

Right now I'm thinking:

Let Payton walk
Let Len walk
Cut ulis
Trade Warren
Trade Chriss
Trade Daniels
Hope Chandler/Dudley retire or try and trade

PG Brandon Knight, Shaq Harrison
SG Devin Booker, Davon Reed
SF Josh Jackson
PF Dragan Bender
C Alan Williams

That's not a starting lineup, just the players I'd keep. Although I assume Chandler and Dudley will be on the roster.

Then fill the roster with new players. I'm hoping for 4 new starters next to Booker next year, with Jackson being 1 of them.

Split T wrote:Right now I'm thinking:

Let Payton walk
Let Len walk
Cut ulis
Trade Warren
Trade Chriss
Trade Daniels
Hope Chandler/Dudley retire or try and trade

PG Brandon Knight, Shaq Harrison
SG Devin Booker, Davon Reed
SF Josh Jackson
PF Dragan Bender
C Alan Williams

That's not a starting lineup, just the players I'd keep. Although I assume Chandler and Dudley will be on the roster.

Then fill the roster with new players. I'm hoping for 4 new starters next to Booker next year, with Jackson being 1 of them.

Agree with this post. If a deal for an established star came along, I would not hesitate to package a deal of Milwaukee or Miami pick + Warren +Bender . Otherwise, agree

I wouldn’t cut Ulis unless we needed the roster spot

Ya, I don't really mind keeping ulis I guess. If it comes down to ulis or Shaq, I'd rather keep Shaq though. Likewise with Reed and Daniels. Keeping Daniels wouldn't be terrible, he only makes like 3 million. But, I'd rather keep Reed at this point.

I wouldn't hesitate to include Bender in a trade as well, but I wouldn't actively pursue it. Warren, Chriss and Mia/Mil picks for a star or as a package to move up in the draft is what I'd look at.

The Suns don't have anything they're going to be able to trade for a star unless they trade Booker, their own #1 or Jackson in the deal. And a big star like Anthony Davis (if he were available, which he most likely isn't) would probably require at least two of those assets. Probably more.

They might be able to acquire a very good player if they include Warren and the Milwaukee and Miami picks. Or a solid veteran with the two picks.

I guess the definition of star is important. Guys like Kemba and Kevin love won't require Booker/Jackson/Our 1st to acquire. Anthony Davis or Kawhi obviously would, but they aren't becoming available.

If LeBron leaves, the Cavs would definitely accept Warren/Chriss and the two mid 1sts for Love. I think that's actually excessive for Love. I'd only offer 1 of the 1st's.

Split T wrote:Right now I'm thinking:

Let Payton walk
Let Len walk
Cut ulis
Trade Warren
Trade Chriss
Trade Daniels
Hope Chandler/Dudley retire or try and trade

PG Brandon Knight, Shaq Harrison
SG Devin Booker, Davon Reed
SF Josh Jackson
PF Dragan Bender
C Alan Williams

That's not a starting lineup, just the players I'd keep. Although I assume Chandler and Dudley will be on the roster.

Then fill the roster with new players. I'm hoping for 4 new starters next to Booker next year, with Jackson being 1 of them.

I Don't disagree with your thinking but to keep it real.

Warren, Chriss, Daniels, Chandler and Dudley are going nowhere in trade. The only way that they will not be on the roster come November is if we cut them/buy them out. I see no market for any of them and anyone we would get in return for any of them could be worse than what we already have. You can add Knight to that list as well.

Surely we should cut "Quail Man", Len and Ulis but I think we will keep Ulis, just because.

That leaves only 2 spots available. Those will be filled by draft picks.

I certainly hope I am wrong and that you are closer to being right. The real problem is that I have no faith that McDonough can get the job done without making it worse, if that is possible.

He created this - why is he not held accountable. Why should he be allowed to hire Triano's replacement? Why should he be allowed to replace the crappy players he acquired?
Where is the hell are all these assets he has accumulated?

That is what makes no sense.

Split T wrote:Warren, Chriss and Mia/Mil picks for a star or as a package to move up in the draft is what I'd look at.

This is the most logical package from our standpoint, but if you look at it from the other team's perspective you are not interested unless something else was added.

And by something else I mean Jackson or a real pick in '19+ (Miami's unprotected or our own with little to no protection).

Otherwise you know the drill: you are giving me just a bust, a couple of mediocre picks and a nice scorer who doesn't do much else. Not worth a star or a premium pick in a top heavy draft.

JustWinBaby wrote: I Don't disagree with your thinking but to keep it real.

Warren, Chriss, Daniels, Chandler and Dudley are going nowhere in trade. The only way that they will not be on the roster come November is if we cut them/buy them out.

Come on now. And you probably can just give away Chriss and Daniels for a second round pick. Chandler, Knight and Dudley obviously are not movable without paying.

JustWinBaby wrote:

Split T wrote:Right now I'm thinking:

Let Payton walk
Let Len walk
Cut ulis
Trade Warren
Trade Chriss
Trade Daniels
Hope Chandler/Dudley retire or try and trade

PG Brandon Knight, Shaq Harrison
SG Devin Booker, Davon Reed
SF Josh Jackson
PF Dragan Bender
C Alan Williams

That's not a starting lineup, just the players I'd keep. Although I assume Chandler and Dudley will be on the roster.

Then fill the roster with new players. I'm hoping for 4 new starters next to Booker next year, with Jackson being 1 of them.

I Don't disagree with your thinking but to keep it real.

Warren, Chriss, Daniels, Chandler and Dudley are going nowhere in trade. The only way that they will not be on the roster come November is if we cut them/buy them out. I see no market for any of them and anyone we would get in return for any of them could be worse than what we already have. You can add Knight to that list as well.

I agree about Chandler and Dudley, but I think there is a market for Chriss, Warren, and Daniels. I think we can trade them fairly easy. Won't get much for Chriss and probably nothing for Daniels, but they can be moved.

I just don't think we can bring back mostly the same team. We're an embarrassment right now. Big changes need to be made.

Booker, Jackson, our 3 1sts, and maybe Bender. That's our team in my opinion.

Warren is a nice player, but I just don't ever see him fitting that well with Booker/Jackson. I'd trade him for a better fitting piece. If that player is a star/potential star I'd gladly add the mid 1st, Bender, Chriss.

Reed and Shaq are potential bench role players. I'd keep them.

Ring_Wanted wrote:

Split T wrote:Warren, Chriss and Mia/Mil picks for a star or as a package to move up in the draft is what I'd look at.

This is the most logical package from our standpoint, but if you look at it from the other team's perspective you are not interested unless something else was added.

And by something else I mean Jackson or a real pick in '19+ (Miami's unprotected or our own with little to no protection).

Otherwise you know the drill: you are giving me just a bust, a couple of mediocre picks and a nice scorer who doesn't do much else. Not worth a star or a premium pick in a top heavy draft.

You might be right, it's hard to know how other teams will value our assets. Last year Portland used #20/#15 to move up to #10. Could #16/#15 get inside the top 10? I'm not expecting to get another top 5, but if we could get 8 or 9 and snag a top 7 guy that slips a spot or two, I'd be happy.

We also need a new coach. I don't want triano back. I want a completely new staff. I'd take a new gm and new owner too while we're at it. I don't know enough about potential coaches, but Jay Wright at Nova seems like a guy we should consider.

Split T wrote:Right now I'm thinking:

Let Payton walk
Let Len walk
Cut ulis
Trade Warren
Trade Chriss
Trade Daniels
Hope Chandler/Dudley retire or try and trade

PG Brandon Knight, Shaq Harrison
SG Devin Booker, Davon Reed
SF Josh Jackson
PF Dragan Bender
C Alan Williams

That's not a starting lineup, just the players I'd keep. Although I assume Chandler and Dudley will be on the roster.

Then fill the roster with new players. I'm hoping for 4 new starters next to Booker next year, with Jackson being 1 of them.

It is arguable that all the players you want to "let walk" or trade should not be part of the Suns' future. But the amount of roster turnover you suggest is probably too much change for one franchise to bear in a single offseason. I'd prioritize which guys absolutely have to go (maybe Len, Chriss, Chandler) and accept that some of these imperfect other guys like Warren and Daniels are still going to be here. If they truly don't mesh with the direction we want to take the team, we can trade them before next trade deadline or reduce their minutes.

I also want to see how some of these guys fare under a new coach. Suppose we get Fizdale. I want to see how the various players perform under his system. Maybe some guys are used better and their production goes up.

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:

Split T wrote:Right now I'm thinking:

Let Payton walk
Let Len walk
Cut ulis
Trade Warren
Trade Chriss
Trade Daniels
Hope Chandler/Dudley retire or try and trade

PG Brandon Knight, Shaq Harrison
SG Devin Booker, Davon Reed
SF Josh Jackson
PF Dragan Bender
C Alan Williams

That's not a starting lineup, just the players I'd keep. Although I assume Chandler and Dudley will be on the roster.

Then fill the roster with new players. I'm hoping for 4 new starters next to Booker next year, with Jackson being 1 of them.

It is arguable that all the players you want to "let walk" or trade should not be part of the Suns' future. But the amount of roster turnover you suggest is probably too much change for one franchise to bear in a single offseason. I'd prioritize which guys absolutely have to go (maybe Len, Chriss, Chandler) and accept that some of these imperfect other guys like Warren and Daniels are still going to be here. If they truly don't mesh with the direction we want to take the team, we can trade them before next trade deadline or reduce their minutes.

I also want to see how some of these guys fare under a new coach. Suppose we get Fizdale. I want to see how the various players perform under his system. Maybe some guys are used better and their production goes up.

What would be the downside of too much turnover?

I just think this team is an embarrassment and don't see how we could actually be worse next year. Although to think we'll actually have that much turnover is another thing. I'm sure we won't turnover half the team, so prioritizing who to dump is probably smart.

There's not really anyone I'd be upset to still have on the team next year. I'd just be upset if we bring essentially the same team back plus a couple rookies.

Chriss - Not sure he'll ever figure it out, but I'm fine letting another team figure that out.

Len - I actually might be upset if we use our cap space to sign him

Chandler - I don't really have a problem with him. If we can get out of his salary and use that to add to the team, I'd be happy. I wouldn't hate having him finish out his last year here.

Dudley - Same as above

Daniels - I'm fine with him too, but we know what he is. 11/12th man who you dust off when you need a shooter. Just think Reed potentially offers more.

Ulis: I just like Shaq better

Payton: He's ok, just would rather spend the money he'd demand on a player who fits better with Booker/Jackson

Warren: he's a nice player, definitely the best on this list, I just think we could get a player of similar value that fits with Booker/Jackson better.

Who would be the ideal PG for Booker and/or Jackson? What qualities are we looking for? Shooting and defense? Pass-first? If Booker's the # 1 option and also doing some ballhandling and distributing along with Jackson, do we need a ball dominant PG to get us 8+ assists? Do we go with more of a role player who can play off the ball while Booker and Jackson run point?

I think someone like Chauncey Billups would be ideal. Needs to have basic shooting/defense/shot creation/playmaking.

I'd rank defense and shooting as the two attributes I find most important. I'd want anyone next to Booker to be a plus in both those areas. Also needs to be able to let Booker play off the ball and be a big enough threat to score that he opens up scoring opportunities for Booker.

Split T wrote:
I just don't think we can bring back mostly the same team. We're an embarrassment right now. Big changes need to be made.

Booker, Jackson, our 3 1sts, and maybe Bender. That's our team in my opinion.

+ the trade value of the other guys (whatever that is).

I agree that the locker room HAS to be very different when training camp comes. I don't trust our front office to make that many changes, though.

O_Gardino wrote:

Split T wrote:
I just don't think we can bring back mostly the same team. We're an embarrassment right now. Big changes need to be made.

Booker, Jackson, our 3 1sts, and maybe Bender. That's our team in my opinion.

+ the trade value of the other guys (whatever that is).

I agree that the locker room HAS to be very different when training camp comes. I don't trust our front office to make that many changes, though.

Yes, definitely. Warren specifically should be able to bring back a decent player.

Say Memphis drafts Ayton at 1 and we land Doncic, Bagley, or Porter. Would you consider putting a package together for Gasol/Conley?

That's a ton of salary to take on and it's aging salary, but we could field a very competitive roster next year. Assuming Booker/Jackson/our 1st are not apart of the trade.

What would that trade look like?

Expiring contracts of Dudley and Chandler, plus Warren/Chriss and two 1st rounders?

I probably wouldn't do it because Conley and Gasol have some health concerns and won't be playing at an elite level much longer. They may already be declining. Still, a Conley/Booker/Jackson/Bagley/Gasol lineup next year would be pretty refreshing to watch after the last few years.

Split T wrote:I think someone like Chauncey Billups would be ideal. Needs to have basic shooting/defense/shot creation/playmaking.

I'd rank defense and shooting as the two attributes I find most important. I'd want anyone next to Booker to be a plus in both those areas. Also needs to be able to let Booker play off the ball and be a big enough threat to score that he opens up scoring opportunities for Booker.

A 3-and-D point guard next to Booker might lead to a team that has trouble distributing the ball and running the offense. Who's going to get the assists and set up the plays?

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:

Split T wrote:I think someone like Chauncey Billups would be ideal. Needs to have basic shooting/defense/shot creation/playmaking.

I'd rank defense and shooting as the two attributes I find most important. I'd want anyone next to Booker to be a plus in both those areas. Also needs to be able to let Booker play off the ball and be a big enough threat to score that he opens up scoring opportunities for Booker.

A 3-and-D point guard next to Booker might lead to a team that has trouble distributing the ball and running the offense. Who's going to get the assists and set up the plays?

Jackson, and possibly Bender, and possibly our draft pick.