Phx-Suns.Net

O_Gardino wrote: ↑

Sat May 26, 2018 7:15 am

Harden has not been good under pressure so far in his career. Paul has been carrying the team in the payoffs. I'm very curious to see if the beard can step up.

Yep, he's known as a choker. And he's done nothing to dispel that the last two fourth quarters. It was Paul who stepped up.

Superbone wrote: ↑

Sat May 26, 2018 10:55 am

O_Gardino wrote: ↑

Sat May 26, 2018 7:15 am

Harden has not been good under pressure so far in his career. Paul has been carrying the team in the payoffs. I'm very curious to see if the beard can step up.

Yep, he's known as a choker. And he's done nothing to dispel that the last two fourth quarters. It was Paul who stepped up.

I know his shot is not falling but didn't he have several clutch steals in the last two games that led to his layup/dunk?

Hermen wrote: ↑

Sat May 26, 2018 2:18 pm

Superbone wrote: ↑

Sat May 26, 2018 10:55 am

O_Gardino wrote: ↑

Sat May 26, 2018 7:15 am

Harden has not been good under pressure so far in his career. Paul has been carrying the team in the payoffs. I'm very curious to see if the beard can step up.

Yep, he's known as a choker. And he's done nothing to dispel that the last two fourth quarters. It was Paul who stepped up.

I know his shot is not falling but didn't he have several clutch steals in the last two games that led to his layup/dunk?

Jokes and simplifications aside, his defense has been better than his offense the last three games. He has been really active. But when he has the ball in his hands, you can just see that he knows he is going to miss the shot.

Hermen wrote: ↑

Sat May 26, 2018 2:18 pm

Superbone wrote: ↑

Sat May 26, 2018 10:55 am

O_Gardino wrote: ↑

Sat May 26, 2018 7:15 am

Harden has not been good under pressure so far in his career. Paul has been carrying the team in the payoffs. I'm very curious to see if the beard can step up.

Yep, he's known as a choker. And he's done nothing to dispel that the last two fourth quarters. It was Paul who stepped up.

I know his shot is not falling but didn't he have several clutch steals in the last two games that led to his layup/dunk?

Yes. I really like that he finds other ways to contribute when his shot isn't falling in tight games. Especially when it is on the defensive side of the ball, where he is (rightfully) usually critiqued.

Indy wrote: ↑

Sat May 26, 2018 7:54 am

AmareIsGod wrote: ↑

Sat May 26, 2018 7:34 am

LeBron anyone?...

Those two dagger three's back to back late were money!

That guy is amazing. I used to really hate him. Now I am just in awe when I watch him. He is playing +40 minutes a game, and has a PER over 30 the last 3 years in the playoffs. Jordan never had a 3 year stretch where he was that effective, despite have a better team against worse competition.

That’s probably why. He wasn’t asked to do so much, with Pippen and later Kukoc taking some of the burden, and no need to put the pedal to the metal against lesser teams. This year Lebron has willed the Cavs to this point almost by himself and the inconsistency among his teammates all this past season had force him to stay on a higher gear or surrender the night’s game. I also used to hate him, taking the easy road to win in Miami after keep coming short and empty handed, but his second tour in Cleveland have really been about redemption, and he has delivered. Still dislike him to the gut when he starts parading as King, but no doubt he is the best today.

No Love for game 7. Nance filled in well but he obviously doesn't give the Cavs the 3 point shooting that Love did.

Boston hasn't lost at home this postseason, but they'll have to survive the inevitable 45/15/12 game that's coming from LeBron. If someone, Jeff green? George Hill? Decides to show up, I think the Cavs can win.

I also used to be very much a LeBron hater. I always appreciated his greatness, but I liked to see him lose. I don't find any joy in him losing anymore and actually find myself rooting for him to make the finals again.

I was too young during most of Jordan's prime to give a true first hand opinion of who is better, but it's hard for me to imagine Jordan being better than LeBron. They clearly both reached the elite of the elite level of play and you could make an argument either way on who is truly the GOAT. I lean LeBron because I witnessed his entire career and we've never seen someone be so dominant for so long without a break. He has always been relied upon to do more for his teams than Jordan ever did.

Jordan has the 6 titles and the almost magical aura that he couldn't lose. I think Jordan benefited from having better teams (coaching, quality of teammates) and playing lesser teams (Curry warriors, KG Celtics, Duncan Spurs vs Barkley Suns, Payton Sonics, Malone/Stockton jazz) LeBron lost one title that he had no business losing(the 2011 title to the Mavs), that's his only real misstep in his career. Unless you count getting his friends big contracts that prevent his gm from building a sustainable roster around him.

Harden made a 3! Houston without Paul is back to jacking threes early and often.

I really don't think you can claim LeBron is playing against better competition than Jordan. The East has been garbage for probably 10 years running now. And LeBron is currently struggling to get past a Celtics team that is missing two All-Stars.

Harden devolved into bad Harden in the second half. Too much dribbling, sloppy play, and poor decision-making. Houston's defense also fell apart tonight. Too many open looks for the Splash Brothers.

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Sat May 26, 2018 9:43 am

He is the GOAT.

I probably will never agree with that.

Joe Johnson looks so out of shape.

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Sat May 26, 2018 8:35 pm

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Sat May 26, 2018 9:43 am

He is the GOAT.

I probably will never agree with that.

Nope, me either. Those of us that were old enough to appreciate Jordan's entire run never will. In the end, LeBron will play longer and have more records but Jordan will always be the GOAT.

Superbone wrote: ↑

Sat May 26, 2018 8:42 pm

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Sat May 26, 2018 8:35 pm

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Sat May 26, 2018 9:43 am

He is the GOAT.

I probably will never agree with that.

Nope, me either. Those of us that were old enough to appreciate Jordan's entire run never will. In the end, LeBron will play longer and have more records but Jordan will always be the GOAT.

I'm old enough to enjoy his entire run and I think LeBron is the GOAT. He just does more for his team and has carried much lesser teams than MJ, and I was a huge Jordan fan. Usually, when talking to unwavering MJ fans, you can ask them what LeBron has to do to surpass him, but it's just not possible in their eyes. He could move to Phx and win the next 10 championships and it still won't be enough. Not saying you guys are like that, but what does he need to do?

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Sat May 26, 2018 8:30 pm

I really don't think you can claim LeBron is playing against better competition than Jordan. The East has been garbage for probably 10 years running now. And LeBron is currently struggling to get past a Celtics team that is missing two All-Stars.

Did Jordan ever beat anyone as good as the Curry Warriors? Do you really think Jordan would be doing better than LeBron with Larry Nance, George Hill, and Jeff green as his best teammates. I don't know who's actually better, I don't think that is a question that can be answered. But LeBron is good enough to be in the discussion.

Superbone wrote: ↑

Sat May 26, 2018 8:42 pm

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Sat May 26, 2018 8:35 pm

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Sat May 26, 2018 9:43 am

He is the GOAT.

I probably will never agree with that.

Nope, me either. Those of us that were old enough to appreciate Jordan's entire run never will. In the end, LeBron will play longer and have more records but Jordan will always be the GOAT.

You guys are old and senile obviously!

I'm firmly in the MJ-as-GOAT camp. I think a big factor people forget are the rule changes, the hand-checking ban and the defensive changes and other things. Back when MJ played you could grab and push and touch a guy when defending him. Teams had their hands all over MJ. The Bad Boy Pistons particularly tried to rough up Jordan, a set of physical edicts passed down by coach Chuck Daly that he called The Jordan Rules.

I think MJ in today's game would be like a kid in a candy store. He would love the way that teams can't touch him, push him, handcheck him. He could be an absolute monster, averaging 35-40 ppg if he wanted. I really think he'd have just as much success if not more in today's NBA.

The one thing Lebron has done many times that MJ never did is choke in big games. MJ lost in the playoffs early in his career, but once he had grown and got his supporting cast, he was nearly unstoppable. He never ever wilted from big games. He didn't fade under pressure. If anything he thrived on it, often putting up his very best and most memorable games when things were on the line. Lebron has definitely done SOME of that, but I have so many memories of pouting Lebron face as his team is getting upset in a game or series or Finals.

I think INF said it best. The stats will look very kindly on Lebron once he's done; he'll have more games, more minutes, more stats, many nice all-time records, that sort of thing. But his Finals resume is going to be something like 3-for-8 or somesuch. MJ absolutely, positively would not allow that to happen to him. MJ would have won 6-7 of those 8 titles, guaranteed. He would have willed it to happen; he would have lifted his game and put his team on his back and gone for the jugular of his opponent's team. That's why in my mind Lebron can never eclipse MJ given the failures he's already had in the Finals and Playoffs, even if Lebron retires #1/2 in scoring or goes to 9 Finals or whatever else he'll have done by then.

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote: ↑

Sat May 26, 2018 11:30 pm

I'm firmly in the MJ-as-GOAT camp. I think a big factor people forget are the rule changes, the hand-checking ban and the defensive changes and other things. Back when MJ played you could grab and push and touch a guy when defending him. Teams had their hands all over MJ. The Bad Boy Pistons particularly tried to rough up Jordan, a set of physical edicts passed down by coach Chuck Daly that he called The Jordan Rules.

I've seen this argument before and it's a bit of a fallacy. I've heard former players that were on the Ben Wallace Pistons team, where Bill Laimbeer was a coach, and the KG Celtics team. He said they did everything they could where they would hit him everytime he went through the lane, they would yell stuff at him that would turn your hair gray and they couldn't rattle him at all. Also, rule changes work both ways. Would you say that LeBron could have used those hand checking rules and backdown rules to his advantage? I mean, he's just as athletic as MJ, but way stronger and bigger than Malone was. He could easily switch from Malone to Stockton and shut them down. Laimbeer was a bit bigger than MJ and was able to bully him, but LeBron is just as big but way stronger and more athletic. He wouldn't have liked how that went. MJ was able to bully other guards, because he was on the forefront of weight lifting in basketball. Do you really think MJ would have a physical advantage on him?

LeBron James is the best all around basketball player I've ever seen. Period. I don't care if he's rated higher or lower than Jordan when it's all said and done. The whole MJ won more and that makes him better is silly to me, its a team game. Paxson/Kerr gotta makes shots or MJ doesn't win and get all the credit. I don't buy the era thing in either case because, both would be successful in either era, one thing I'm fairly confident in is that Jordan and the Bulls probably don't win 6 titles in 8 years in this era with the West being the dominant conference and the advances in coaching, athletes and analytics.

I think the pro MJ crowd will always find a way to discredit how good LeBron is, which is fine, to each their own.

Eh... You youngon's will never understand.