Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season
Posted: Thu May 09, 2019 7:02 pm
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I mean, he’s created a lot of those gimmies for himself, but I’m cool just agreeing to disagree.specialsauce wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 7:02 pmHe does but it is all put backs and gimmes down low. That’s not a max player IMO. We’ll just agree to disagree.
That's very impractical and a bad strategy in the playoffs when you must play your best players.Split T wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 6:54 pmIt makes plenty sense. You never have a minute on the court without one of your best players.specialsauce wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 6:41 pmYou’re talking about having to stagger your best players because they don’t fit together. That doesn’t make any sense.Split T wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 6:18 pmUse him as the screener...don’t iso booker with Simmons on the floor. You’d have to get a little creative with both Ayton and Simmons, but I think Ayton will definitely be able to stretch to the corner soon. You can also stagger the minutes so Simmons and Ayton don’t spend a lot of time together on the floor. If they both play 36 minutes, stagger them so they play 24 together and 24 apart.Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 5:38 pmThe problem with Simmons is, what can you do with him when he doesn't have the ball in his hands? If Booker is doing his Harden thing and both Ayton and Simmons are on the floor, at least one of them needs to stretch to the corner. It's basically the same problem Philly is having with Embiid and Simmons right now. They both occupy the same space on offense without the ball.
You can still easily play both of them...Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 7:39 pmThat's very impractical and a bad strategy in the playoffs when you must play your best players.Split T wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 6:54 pmIt makes plenty sense. You never have a minute on the court without one of your best players.specialsauce wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 6:41 pmYou’re talking about having to stagger your best players because they don’t fit together. That doesn’t make any sense.Split T wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 6:18 pmUse him as the screener...don’t iso booker with Simmons on the floor. You’d have to get a little creative with both Ayton and Simmons, but I think Ayton will definitely be able to stretch to the corner soon. You can also stagger the minutes so Simmons and Ayton don’t spend a lot of time together on the floor. If they both play 36 minutes, stagger them so they play 24 together and 24 apart.Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 5:38 pmThe problem with Simmons is, what can you do with him when he doesn't have the ball in his hands? If Booker is doing his Harden thing and both Ayton and Simmons are on the floor, at least one of them needs to stretch to the corner. It's basically the same problem Philly is having with Embiid and Simmons right now. They both occupy the same space on offense without the ball.
The bottom line for me is that he's not worth the headache if he's not willing to take and make a jumpshot. I honestly can't believe how anyone would really disagree with that.
I'm not saying you can't play them together, just that it's a misuse of cap space and not ideal roster construction.Split T wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 8:30 pmYou can still easily play both of them...
Bottom line for me is he’s a 22 year old 16/8/8 guy who plays elite defense at 6’10 240, why would you not want that?
Plenty of guys couldn’t shoot at the beginning of their career(Kidd, Rondo)
Just think of him as a 6’10 rondo...he was the pg for a championship team.
My point wasn’t necessarily the championship that rondo won, but that he was a very effective pg without a jumpshot. Simmons has had some troubles in the playoffs, but he’s also been very effective without a jump shot.Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 8:35 pmI'm not saying you can't play them together, just that it's a misuse of cap space and not ideal roster construction.Split T wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 8:30 pmYou can still easily play both of them...
Bottom line for me is he’s a 22 year old 16/8/8 guy who plays elite defense at 6’10 240, why would you not want that?
Plenty of guys couldn’t shoot at the beginning of their career(Kidd, Rondo)
Just think of him as a 6’10 rondo...he was the pg for a championship team.
I'm all for it if he can hit reliably hit a shot out to 20 feet, but it's been three years and he still doesn't even attempt them. I'd like to see some progression before giving him the contract he'll likely demand.
That Rondo comparison is way out of context. He was playing with three veterans who were locks for the Hall of Fame before they even won that title. It would be like if we swapped out Draymond Green for Simmons and pointed to him winning on the Warriors as evidence of his ability to succeed.
This ain’t NBA2K. You have a salary cap. No way in hell Im using my limited max dollars and giving up assets to obtain a player that will be exposed every year in the playoffs. Absolutely no way. That’s a disaster waiting to happen. If he doesn’t develop any semblance of a shot, that max deal will haunt an organization just like John Wall. Good enough to keep you stuck in mediocrity for a decade.Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 8:35 pmI'm not saying you can't play them together, just that it's a misuse of cap space and not ideal roster construction.Split T wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 8:30 pmYou can still easily play both of them...
Bottom line for me is he’s a 22 year old 16/8/8 guy who plays elite defense at 6’10 240, why would you not want that?
Plenty of guys couldn’t shoot at the beginning of their career(Kidd, Rondo)
Just think of him as a 6’10 rondo...he was the pg for a championship team.
I'm all for it if he can hit reliably hit a shot out to 20 feet, but it's been three years and he still doesn't even attempt them. I'd like to see some progression before giving him the contract he'll likely demand.
That Rondo comparison is way out of context. He was playing with three veterans who were locks for the Hall of Fame before they even won that title. It would be like if we swapped out Draymond Green for Simmons and pointed to him winning on the Warriors as evidence of his ability to succeed.
You know that's not true. It absolutely affects the cap flexibility of the entire roster.Split T wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 10:22 pmWow..a 23 year old signing for 25-30 million a year isn’t anywhere close to aging, torn Achilles, John wall at 40+ million a year.
Look, I’m fine if you don’t think Simmons is a great fit. His shot is a problem, but he’s already a very good player, and you’re way overstating how much his lack of a jumpshot hurts him.
And for the record, he’s on a rookie deal still. He’d cost about the same as Ja Morant would next year, then we could go over the cap to retain him...so it literally wouldn’t impact our cap space at all.
Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 10:26 pmYou know that's not true. It absolutely affects the cap flexibility of the entire roster.Split T wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 10:22 pmWow..a 23 year old signing for 25-30 million a year isn’t anywhere close to aging, torn Achilles, John wall at 40+ million a year.
Look, I’m fine if you don’t think Simmons is a great fit. His shot is a problem, but he’s already a very good player, and you’re way overstating how much his lack of a jumpshot hurts him.
And for the record, he’s on a rookie deal still. He’d cost about the same as Ja Morant would next year, then we could go over the cap to retain him...so it literally wouldn’t impact our cap space at all.
Yeah, I actually think it could be a good training for a GM.
I'd give up Bridges. The only guys or assets I wouldn't put in such a deal would be Booker, Ayton, or if we get the #1 pick this year (Zion).Indy wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2019 5:12 amIf you can get Simmons for people not named Ayton, Booker, and Bridges, you do it. He can play point forward. He is already bigger and a better rebounder than Philly's PF, and would be a huge upgrade for us at that spot. You then sign a veteran 3-D guy at point. It would require Ayton to become an outside shooter, though. Or at least a threat in the 33-35% range.
I agree. That's why you are not allowed to talk to a coach unless the team explicitly consents. If Philly had said no, we would not have spoken to him.JeremyG wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 2:57 pmThis does actually bring up an interesting discussion. It's always felt weird to me that a team can hire a coach who is still working for another team in the playoffs. It just seems like it has to distract their focus, and could even present a conflict of interest.