Phx-Suns.Net

The lack of defense is the most alarming part seeing how that's supposed to be Vogels strength. Book is doing well individually at PG but it's not translating into success.

The bench has been very bad.

SunsSince92 wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 15, 2023 10:52 pm

Superbone wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 15, 2023 10:49 pm

Superbone wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 15, 2023 10:42 pm

Wally_West wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 15, 2023 10:35 pm

Will Vogel make it the whole season?

Coach can’t make them give a shit. They’re all cool as f$%k.

On the other hand, he said before the season that we need to outwork the other teams and he has not gotten that message through even a little bit so maybe it is on him to tighten the screws.

Yep, he said we'd be 'scrappy as hell' but we've been the total opposite. You can't blame a lack of fight within the team on Beal being out. If anything that should make them fight harder.

I think you misheard. He said “crappy as hell” and he has delivered in bunches

Sad they picked the night honouring one of the highest motor suns ever to take a giant dump on the court. The only good news in the short term is betting agencies haven’t caught on yet that the suns stink. Good hedging odds.

My buddies were at the game and said it was sad…. The arena barely had anyone there to watch Marion’s ROH ceremony. Not sure why they chose to do it this way but common sense says doing it after a game is never going to work. Supposed to be an honor not an afterthought.

Postgame Quotes and Videos

Go DBacks!

No excuses. Vogel was hired because of his championship pedigree (let's face it, that was all LeBron and a superstar team) and defense. He's missing the mark, big time. This staff is a disappointment. Beal hasn't been the missing piece. Team lacks ZERO identity other than an emotionless blob of collective meh.

AmareIsGod wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 16, 2023 7:27 am

Go DBacks!

No excuses. Vogel was hired because of his championship pedigree (let's face it, that was all LeBron and a superstar team) and defense. He's missing the mark, big time. This staff is a disappointment. Beal hasn't been the missing piece. Team lacks ZERO identity other than an emotionless blob of collective meh.

100%…. I’m trying to be patient and realize Rome wasn’t built in a day but it’s or get off the pot. For all the statistical upgrades our bench was supposed to be, it’s been massively disappointing. Our defense is atrocious and couldn’t fight its way out of a wet paper bag. I miss our fun, youthful side that played the whole 48 minutes.

At least the Stock Market is having a good fourth quarter...

This a loose assemblage of random players, instead of a cohesive team.

Brunson is good, but 17-23 from the field? Who was guarding him -- Stevie Wonder?

Second unit plays like a bunch of guys wandering onto an outdoor court for a pickup game.

Still not hitting the panic button but this was a bad loss. The Knicks are good and are kind of built similarly to us, have also been up and down but I thought they were fading recently and we might be able to catch them at the start of a long road trip. Brunson carried them, RJ had a strong game, Randle was Randle and we had them until we didn't. I thought early in the game we had some good looks that just didn't go down and then we just let go of the rope again in the 4th.

Bottom line is we gave up 140 to the Knicks. Is it the personnel or the coaching/strategies? Beal's injury felt like it shook up the team for a bit but we settled in afterwards and looked OK. Something's not working with the defense tho when you're giving up 50 to someone and 140 to a team.

And while PointBook may look OK on the stat sheet, I think we may need a more traditional lineup with Goodwin running offense part-time and defending point guards full time. It's only temporary until Beal comes back anyway, but we have to try and make things easier on Book early in games and then maybe run PointBook late in games.

Maybe we should just lean in on defense for now, start Goodwin and Little/Okogie, and let KD and Book just work the offense? Maybe a lesser talented, scrappier starting lineup would work better for Vogel?

I think this is kind of what happens when you trade / turn over almost your entire team. You get a bunch of guys who are better on paper than the guys you had last year, but they aren't really Suns in their heart, and they don't really truly give a shit about the team or each other. You get a bunch of guys who just kind of go out there and play pickup ball, shooting when they get the ball. No real offensive flow, big lapses on defense.

And as much as KD has been great for us, I think the general strategy of betting a decade's worth of assets on a single year's team is basically insane. If this team doesn't end up contending, we are going to be bad for a really, really, really long time.

I'm still 100% happy with the Ayton/Nurk+Little swap. But outside of that I kind of just wish we had our old team back with CP3, Mikal, CamJ, Payne, and the rest. That team was flawed but they were a band of brothers, and often the result was bigger than the sum of the parts.

Wally_West wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 15, 2023 10:41 pm

TOO wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 15, 2023 10:38 pm

Frank Vogel is garbage, these dudes play softer than baby shit.

Unless things turnaround real fucking fast, I think he’s gone by all-star break

Lol. You have to give a coach at least a full season. But it’s Ishbia we’re talking about, so I suppose you could be right.

Superbone wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 15, 2023 10:46 pm

Wally_West wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 15, 2023 10:39 pm

Superbone wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 15, 2023 10:35 pm

Sorry guys but this Suns team sucks. No heart. Thibs said it in the huddle, “You’ve got to want it more than them.” And they did (Knicks). Suns just going through the motions.

Trying to be positive but this is the first time I’m feeling like this is just a wasted season. Get rid Jones, get rid of Vogel. Hire Bob Myers. Fingers crossed for next season.


I’ll probably feel better after nights sleep

I sure hope I do. I’m pissed off at this team right now. I want a do over and go back to last year’s roster before Durant.

Thank you. Most frustrating part is that roster was just starting to really click also, right at the trade deadline.

AmareIsGod wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 16, 2023 7:27 am

Go DBacks!

No excuses. Vogel was hired because of his championship pedigree (let's face it, that was all LeBron and a superstar team) and defense. He's missing the mark, big time. This staff is a disappointment. Beal hasn't been the missing piece. Team lacks ZERO identity other than an emotionless blob of collective meh.

Vogel has a very long track record of having great defensive teams. But we traded away all of our defensive players so it’s kind of hard to expect a great defensive team.

Can we all agree now that not having a point guard on the roster was a mistake?

A pg doesn’t help our defense…that’s our biggest problem.

Mori Chu wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 16, 2023 8:49 am

I think this is kind of what happens when you trade / turn over almost your entire team. You get a bunch of guys who are better on paper than the guys you had last year, but they aren't really Suns in their heart, and they don't really truly give a shit about the team or each other. You get a bunch of guys who just kind of go out there and play pickup ball, shooting when they get the ball. No real offensive flow, big lapses on defense.

And as much as KD has been great for us, I think the general strategy of betting a decade's worth of assets on a single year's team is basically insane. If this team doesn't end up contending, we are going to be bad for a really, really, really long time.

I'm still 100% happy with the Ayton/Nurk+Little swap. But outside of that I kind of just wish we had our old team back with CP3, Mikal, CamJ, Payne, and the rest. That team was flawed but they were a band of brothers, and often the result was bigger than the sum of the parts.

I agree with a lot of what you've said, but with regards to your last paragraph, whilst I'd like Paul back to man the point and free up Book and KD, he and the players you've mentioned were part of one of the most humiliating collapses in a game 7 that we've ever witnessed. It's easy to look back with rose tinted spectacles but we collapsed in the playoffs two years in a row and changes needed to be made in an effort to get over the hump.

Hopefully this group will figure things out or we will be really bad for a long time, as you said.

Split T wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 16, 2023 10:28 am

A pg doesn’t help our defense…that’s our biggest problem.

True, but it would free up our offense which would help to offset some of our defensive deficiencies. At the moment we're not great on either end of the floor.

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 16, 2023 9:39 am

AmareIsGod wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 16, 2023 7:27 am

Go DBacks!

No excuses. Vogel was hired because of his championship pedigree (let's face it, that was all LeBron and a superstar team) and defense. He's missing the mark, big time. This staff is a disappointment. Beal hasn't been the missing piece. Team lacks ZERO identity other than an emotionless blob of collective meh.

Vogel has a very long track record of having great defensive teams. But we traded away all of our defensive players so it’s kind of hard to expect a great defensive team.

Agreed - it's like giving D'antoni a bunch of defenders and asking him to make them a great offensive team. Yes improvements could be made but the personnel aren't there for this to be a good defensive team.

SunsSince92 wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 16, 2023 10:45 am

whilst I'd like Paul back to man the point and free up Book and KD, he and the players you've mentioned were part of one of the most humiliating collapses in a game 7 that we've ever witnessed. It's easy to look back with rose tinted spectacles but we collapsed in the playoffs two years in a row...

This. How quickly folks forget.

SunsSince92 wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 16, 2023 10:45 am

Mori Chu wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 16, 2023 8:49 am

I think this is kind of what happens when you trade / turn over almost your entire team. You get a bunch of guys who are better on paper than the guys you had last year, but they aren't really Suns in their heart, and they don't really truly give a shit about the team or each other. You get a bunch of guys who just kind of go out there and play pickup ball, shooting when they get the ball. No real offensive flow, big lapses on defense.

And as much as KD has been great for us, I think the general strategy of betting a decade's worth of assets on a single year's team is basically insane. If this team doesn't end up contending, we are going to be bad for a really, really, really long time.

I'm still 100% happy with the Ayton/Nurk+Little swap. But outside of that I kind of just wish we had our old team back with CP3, Mikal, CamJ, Payne, and the rest. That team was flawed but they were a band of brothers, and often the result was bigger than the sum of the parts.

I agree with a lot of what you've said, but with regards to your last paragraph, whilst I'd like Paul back to man the point and free up Book and KD, he and the players you've mentioned were part of one of the most humiliating collapses in a game 7 that we've ever witnessed. It's easy to look back with rose tinted spectacles but we collapsed in the playoffs two years in a row and changes needed to be made in an effort to get over the hump.

Hopefully this group will figure things out or we will be really bad for a long time, as you said.

Yea the pre-KD team was topped out talent-wise and overmatched physically and athletically. I might've kept Monty and made the DA trade but CP had to go and we would've needed some heavy reinforcements. I miss those guys and miss watching those teams, but when you can get KD and Beal, you get them. It's still a talent league.