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Re: Suns News: Week 18 2/11-2/17
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:57 am
by ShelC
I'd honestly be more OK with Oubre at 12mil a year than TJ at 12mil a year. I just like Oubre's skillset better, all things being equal.
Re: Suns News: Week 18 2/11-2/17
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:42 am
by Indy
ShelC wrote: ↑Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:57 am
I'd honestly be more OK with Oubre at 12mil a year than TJ at 12mil a year. I just like Oubre's skillset better, all things being equal.
What can you say Kelly does definitively better than TJ? The only think I can come up with is dunk.
Code: Select all
Player Season Age G MP FGA FG% 3PA 3P% eFG% FT% TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
Kelly Oubre 2018-19 23 57 27.0 11.4 .438 4.8 .314 .504 .781 4.5 1.1 1.0 0.8 1.3 2.6 14.1
T.J. Warren 2018-19 25 43 31.6 14.2 .486 4.2 .428 .549 .815 4.0 1.5 1.2 0.7 1.2 2.8 18.0
Provided by
Basketball-Reference.com:
View Original Table
Generated 2/21/2019.
Re: Suns News: Week 18 2/11-2/17
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:52 am
by ShelC
His splits after the trade are a bit higher, but I like his ball handling, slashing, defense, rebounding, athleticism. Like I said, I just like his skillset better. It's an eye-test kind of thing for me.
Re: Suns News: Week 18 2/11-2/17
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:58 am
by Split T
Oubre is a much better defender and rebounder than warren. He’s the only guy that kinda plays the 4 ok for us.
Re: Suns News: Week 18 2/11-2/17
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:20 pm
by Superbone
Oubre is a high energy difference maker. When he's on the court, things happen.
Re: Suns News: Week 18 2/11-2/17
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:40 pm
by The Bobster
Indy wrote: ↑Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:42 am
ShelC wrote: ↑Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:57 am
I'd honestly be more OK with Oubre at 12mil a year than TJ at 12mil a year. I just like Oubre's skillset better, all things being equal.
What can you say Kelly does definitively better than TJ? The only think I can come up with is dunk.
Code: Select all
Player Season Age G MP FGA FG% 3PA 3P% eFG% FT% TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
Kelly Oubre 2018-19 23 57 27.0 11.4 .438 4.8 .314 .504 .781 4.5 1.1 1.0 0.8 1.3 2.6 14.1
T.J. Warren 2018-19 25 43 31.6 14.2 .486 4.2 .428 .549 .815 4.0 1.5 1.2 0.7 1.2 2.8 18.0
Provided by
Basketball-Reference.com:
View Original Table
Generated 2/21/2019.
His defense, and he gets to the line more often because he drives a lot more, but that's really about it
Re: Suns News: Week 18 2/11-2/17
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 1:56 pm
by carey
The Bobster wrote:
His defense, and he gets to the line more often because he drives a lot more, but that's really about it
TJ drives plenty only he flips that shot up before contact 90% of the time.
But yeah, when talking about Oubre defense is his 1a.
Re: Suns News: Week 18 2/11-2/17
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 2:35 pm
by Indy
He certainly shows more energy on defense, but his Defensive Win Shares are the exact same, and their Defensive Ratings are 116 vs 114. So TJ gives up 2 more points per 100 possessions than Kelly. Not much difference. I guess it is just an eye tests, because basic and advanced stats say there isn't much difference there.
Re: Suns News: Week 18 2/11-2/17
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 2:45 pm
by ShelC
I used to say all the time, there's a difference between 8 assists a game from Steve Nash and 8 assists a game from Steph Marbury.
Re: Suns News: Week 18 2/11-2/17
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 3:28 pm
by rhylek
Oubre shows fire, we need that.
And he seems happy to be here, Warren not so.
Re: Suns News: Week 18 2/11-2/17
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 3:42 pm
by Split T
Oubre actually protects the rim a little bit...not so much with warren.
Re: Suns News: Week 18 2/11-2/17
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 3:46 pm
by Split T
Indy wrote: ↑Thu Feb 21, 2019 2:35 pm
He certainly shows more energy on defense, but his Defensive Win Shares are the exact same, and their Defensive Ratings are 116 vs 114. So TJ gives up 2 more points per 100 possessions than Kelly. Not much difference. I guess it is just an eye tests, because basic and advanced stats say there isn't much difference there.
I don’t really trust advanced stats on defense. Even still, they have the same defensive win shares, but Warren has played twice the minutes. Add Oubre’s time in Washington and he has twice the win shares as Warren
Re: Suns News: Week 18 2/11-2/17
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 3:58 pm
by AmareIsGod
Indy wrote: ↑Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:42 am
ShelC wrote: ↑Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:57 am
I'd honestly be more OK with Oubre at 12mil a year than TJ at 12mil a year. I just like Oubre's skillset better, all things being equal.
What can you say Kelly does definitively better than TJ? The only think I can come up with is dunk.
Code: Select all
Player Season Age G MP FGA FG% 3PA 3P% eFG% FT% TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
Kelly Oubre 2018-19 23 57 27.0 11.4 .438 4.8 .314 .504 .781 4.5 1.1 1.0 0.8 1.3 2.6 14.1
T.J. Warren 2018-19 25 43 31.6 14.2 .486 4.2 .428 .549 .815 4.0 1.5 1.2 0.7 1.2 2.8 18.0
Provided by
Basketball-Reference.com:
View Original Table
Generated 2/21/2019.
He's available. He plays. He's active on the roster. How hard is that to comprehend? It's the same thing I've felt as a Diamondbacks fan. AJ Pollock puts up All Star numbers but misses 50 or so games a season. I wasn't upset at all when he signed elsewhere this off-season. I don't want a guy that puts up great numbers but always misses a sizable chunk of games. What good does that do you as a team?
Re: Suns News: Week 18 2/11-2/17
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:49 pm
by Bucktastic365
ShelC wrote: ↑Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:52 am
His splits after the trade are a bit higher, but I like his ball handling, slashing, defense, rebounding, athleticism. Like I said, I just like his skillset better. It's an eye-test kind of thing for me.
Agree.
I'd love a trifecta of Bridges, Oubre, and Jackson.
Re: Suns News: Week 18 2/11-2/17
Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:50 am
by Indy
Split T wrote: ↑Thu Feb 21, 2019 3:46 pm
Indy wrote: ↑Thu Feb 21, 2019 2:35 pm
He certainly shows more energy on defense, but his Defensive Win Shares are the exact same, and their Defensive Ratings are 116 vs 114. So TJ gives up 2 more points per 100 possessions than Kelly. Not much difference. I guess it is just an eye tests, because basic and advanced stats say there isn't much difference there.
I don’t really trust advanced stats on defense. Even still, they have the same defensive win shares, but Warren has played twice the minutes. Add Oubre’s time in Washington and he has twice the win shares as Warren
That is a good point. And I do like his activity and fire. I hope that is not just his contract year activity and fire.
Re: Suns News: Week 18 2/11-2/17
Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:05 pm
by Ring_Wanted
For the life of me I can't believe some people are actually in favor of trading Warren and keeping Jackson. One is proven as a scorer and actually has improved as a shooter. Sure has limitations, but at least is a positive on one end of the floor.
The other is one of the worst offensive players in the whole NBA and doesn't bring anything relevant elsewhere, including defense. If Jackson was not a #4 pick nobody would want him to play more than 15mpg, and that's being generous.
Please take a look at this graph (via Reddit) showing the best and worst offensive players in the league:
And that's far from stat noise. When you watch Jackson play, most times all you see is a weak guy with some handles but who is just a TO waiting to happen, who can't make shots and who goes hard against a wall of defenders and launches a brick towards the rim. When was the last time he locked anyone down on defense?
He gives me the same vibes Brandon Knight did.
Re: Suns News: Week 18 2/11-2/17
Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:12 pm
by Indy
Ring_Wanted wrote: ↑Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:05 pm
For the life of me I can't believe some people are actually in favor of trading Warren and keeping Jackson. One is proven as a scorer and actually has improved as a shooter. Sure has limitations, but at least is a positive on one end of the floor.
The other is one of the worst offensive players in the whole NBA and doesn't bring anything relevant elsewhere, including defense. If Jackson was not a #4 pick nobody would want him to play more than 15mpg, and that's being generous.
Please take a look at this graph (via Reddit) showing the best and worst offensive players in the league:
And that's far from stat noise. When you watch Jackson play, most times all you see is a weak guy with some handles but who is just a TO waiting to happen, who can't make shots and who goes hard against a wall of defenders and launches a brick towards the rim. When was the last time he locked anyone down on defense?
He gives me the same vibes Brandon Knight did.
But TJ misses so many games... and doesn't rebound... and doesn't pass.
Re: Suns News: Week 18 2/11-2/17
Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:18 pm
by Ring_Wanted
Yeah, and Ayton doesn't protect the rim. And Booker doesn't defend either, and can't carry a whole NBA franchise on his shoulders. And Bridges can't do anything with the ball on his hands other than shoot when wide open. And Oubre is average at everything and good at nothing. And the coach has no idea how to use his big man and shows no fire when teams and refs abuse him. And the rest of this franchise is not worthy of any further comment.
Just contract the league and get rid of the team then.
Re: Suns News: Week 18 2/11-2/17
Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:22 pm
by Shabazz
Ring_Wanted wrote: ↑Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:18 pm
Just contract the league and get rid of the team then.
They’d be doing us all a favor. At least I wouldn’t have to self-flagellate 3-4 nights a week.
Re: Suns News: Week 18 2/11-2/17
Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:23 pm
by ShelC
Serious question...do you watch the games?