Phx-Suns.Net

specialsauce wrote:

ShelC wrote:Call me crazy, but I think a guy like Jeff Van Gundy is what we need to really turn this thing around. Pay him, let him bring in his own assistants, and establish a clear identity for the team and how we want to play. He's still a top basketball mind and knows what it takes to be successful.

I think every message board for every team has had this exact statement made at some point since he stopped coaching. I wouldn’t mind him either, but after all this time why would he pick our situation to return to?

I think he loves teaching the game, and would love to take on a young roster. But I don't think he and Sarver can coexist.

For me it has to be the clean sweep.
Bring in someone new (Fiz) and let them bring in their own team.
The focus of interviews should be about Training and teaching a young team about Individual and team D. Then the O.
Taking responsibility to develop skills and atributes that will be successful long term.
Holding team members to account and building them as men.
Change the current feel of the backroom and let them win or lose hard every night.
Sweep most of the rosta as well. I’m not worried about high turnover of players this off season as what many have brought to the table has been very sub standard.
I’d keep Booker, Jackson and the new top pick whoever that turns out to be, and trade, dump, buy out the rest. (I know that’s not actually a real possibility but boy does it need to happen!)

England Sun wrote:For me it has to be the clean sweep.
Bring in someone new (Fiz) and let them bring in their own team.
The focus of interviews should be about Training and teaching a young team about Individual and team D. Then the O.
Taking responsibility to develop skills and atributes that will be successful long term.
Holding team members to account and building them as men.
Change the current feel of the backroom and let them win or lose hard every night.
Sweep most of the rosta as well. I’m not worried about high turnover of players this off season as what many have brought to the table has been very sub standard.
I’d keep Booker, Jackson and the new top pick whoever that turns out to be, and trade, dump, buy out the rest. (I know that’s not actually a real possibility but boy does it need to happen!)

Warren is a dump?

I like the Jay Wright idea.

In2ition wrote:

England Sun wrote:For me it has to be the clean sweep.
Bring in someone new (Fiz) and let them bring in their own team.
The focus of interviews should be about Training and teaching a young team about Individual and team D. Then the O.
Taking responsibility to develop skills and atributes that will be successful long term.
Holding team members to account and building them as men.
Change the current feel of the backroom and let them win or lose hard every night.
Sweep most of the rosta as well. I’m not worried about high turnover of players this off season as what many have brought to the table has been very sub standard.
I’d keep Booker, Jackson and the new top pick whoever that turns out to be, and trade, dump, buy out the rest. (I know that’s not actually a real possibility but boy does it need to happen!)

Warren is a dump?

He’d be in the trade bracket seen as he has some value but I’m not for any player who can play almost 82 games and have almost as many assists as I have from England.
As many assists as turn overs at just over 1 a game!
A 3 who can score (and does this well at the 2 range) and rebound a bit but not hit the 3 is not someone we should have as part of our core.
I know others love him and I could marginally see a 6th man role for him, but when we are so low on the assists chart and in need of more form that position, he is a ‘trade’ for me.

England Sun wrote:

In2ition wrote:

England Sun wrote:For me it has to be the clean sweep.
Bring in someone new (Fiz) and let them bring in their own team.
The focus of interviews should be about Training and teaching a young team about Individual and team D. Then the O.
Taking responsibility to develop skills and atributes that will be successful long term.
Holding team members to account and building them as men.
Change the current feel of the backroom and let them win or lose hard every night.
Sweep most of the rosta as well. I’m not worried about high turnover of players this off season as what many have brought to the table has been very sub standard.
I’d keep Booker, Jackson and the new top pick whoever that turns out to be, and trade, dump, buy out the rest. (I know that’s not actually a real possibility but boy does it need to happen!)

Warren is a dump?

He’d be in the trade bracket seen as he has some value but I’m not for any player who can play almost 82 games and have almost as many assists as I have from England.
As many assists as turn overs at just over 1 a game!
A 3 who can score (and does this well at the 2 range) and rebound a bit but not hit the 3 is not someone we should have as part of our core.
I know others love him and I could marginally see a 6th man role for him, but when we are so low on the assists chart and in need of more form that position, he is a ‘trade’ for me.

I think he is more valuable to a team that has good shooting and good passers. Since we suck at both, he isn't as valued here. Honestly, if he was your worst 3 pt shooter on the floor, and you had a 3rd passer (in addition to a PG and Booker), he would be really valuable. I realize he doesn't get assists, but that is because he gets the ball as he is cutting to the rim and gets the shot off before anyone can block it. I don't want him passing from that position. If Bender did that, we would all be SCREAMING at him to shoot the damn ball.

I know it all depends on where our pick(s) land, but I don't think it is time to sell low on TJ.

I don't think it would be selling low on TJ. He may be more useful in another situation, but that doesn't mean he would have more trade value. What you are talking about is minimizing his role so that his weaknesses don't hurt us as much. That's not going to help his trade value.

Right now the narrative about TJ is something like, "He's an incredible efficient young 2pt scorer who is the second option on the Suns. If he grows a 3pt shot, he'll be an incredible offensive weapon."
Next year the narrative will be, "He lost his starting spot to Jackson because of his defensive shortcomings. And while he scores pretty well, he still hasn't developed a 3pt shot."

Now is the time to trade him to some club that needs scoring and still thinks he can add a 3pter.

England Sun wrote:

In2ition wrote:

England Sun wrote:For me it has to be the clean sweep.
Bring in someone new (Fiz) and let them bring in their own team.
The focus of interviews should be about Training and teaching a young team about Individual and team D. Then the O.
Taking responsibility to develop skills and atributes that will be successful long term.
Holding team members to account and building them as men.
Change the current feel of the backroom and let them win or lose hard every night.
Sweep most of the rosta as well. I’m not worried about high turnover of players this off season as what many have brought to the table has been very sub standard.
I’d keep Booker, Jackson and the new top pick whoever that turns out to be, and trade, dump, buy out the rest. (I know that’s not actually a real possibility but boy does it need to happen!)

Warren is a dump?

He’d be in the trade bracket seen as he has some value but I’m not for any player who can play almost 82 games and have almost as many assists as I have from England.
As many assists as turn overs at just over 1 a game!
A 3 who can score (and does this well at the 2 range) and rebound a bit but not hit the 3 is not someone we should have as part of our core.
I know others love him and I could marginally see a 6th man role for him, but when we are so low on the assists chart and in need of more form that position, he is a ‘trade’ for me.

I know I'm just being a jerk now, but his rebounding is pretty bad. He's ok on the offensive glass, but horrendous on the defensive glass. His DRB% is right there with Canaan, Gray, and Mike James. Bender and Danual House are 50% better defensive rebounders.

Troy Daniels is the only player to play for the Suns this season who is worse than Warren at both defensive rebounding and passing.

Indy wrote:

England Sun wrote:

In2ition wrote:

England Sun wrote:For me it has to be the clean sweep.
Bring in someone new (Fiz) and let them bring in their own team.
The focus of interviews should be about Training and teaching a young team about Individual and team D. Then the O.
Taking responsibility to develop skills and atributes that will be successful long term.
Holding team members to account and building them as men.
Change the current feel of the backroom and let them win or lose hard every night.
Sweep most of the rosta as well. I’m not worried about high turnover of players this off season as what many have brought to the table has been very sub standard.
I’d keep Booker, Jackson and the new top pick whoever that turns out to be, and trade, dump, buy out the rest. (I know that’s not actually a real possibility but boy does it need to happen!)

Warren is a dump?

He’d be in the trade bracket seen as he has some value but I’m not for any player who can play almost 82 games and have almost as many assists as I have from England.
As many assists as turn overs at just over 1 a game!
A 3 who can score (and does this well at the 2 range) and rebound a bit but not hit the 3 is not someone we should have as part of our core.
I know others love him and I could marginally see a 6th man role for him, but when we are so low on the assists chart and in need of more form that position, he is a ‘trade’ for me.

I think he is more valuable to a team that has good shooting and good passers. Since we suck at both, he isn't as valued here. Honestly, if he was your worst 3 pt shooter on the floor, and you had a 3rd passer (in addition to a PG and Booker), he would be really valuable. I realize he doesn't get assists, but that is because he gets the ball as he is cutting to the rim and gets the shot off before anyone can block it. I don't want him passing from that position. If Bender did that, we would all be SCREAMING at him to shoot the damn ball.

I know it all depends on where our pick(s) land, but I don't think it is time to sell low on TJ.

I see a little of that from 2, but I’ve managed to watch 3/4 games this year and each time I’ve taken time to watch TJ in those possible assist positions. When he is cutting I get the ‘score first’ mentality and he does that well. (Something that Bender could learn from:)
BUT, and for me it is a big BUT and that is the times that he forces those shots, drives or 1-1’s where the extra pass is on, easy and the better option and he doesn’t even look, consider or want to pass it. Black hole central.
I don’t think we will be the setting for him even after this off season unless we do the massive overhaul that puts his weakness out of the way. I wouldn’t have him in mind while doing so.

Agreed

A lot of talk here about trading Warren but I just don't see it due to McD's MO. He seems to glom on to "his" players and never let go.

Superbone wrote:A lot of talk here about trading Warren but I just don't see it due to McD's MO. He seems to glom on to "his" players and never let go.

Agreed. That is why it is hard to imagine legimate improvement with him still in the GM job.

Superbone wrote:A lot of talk here about trading Warren but I just don't see it due to McD's MO. He seems to glom on to "his" players and never let go.

He was very active trading players when he first got here, but he hasn't traded one of 'his' guys without his hand being forced.

O_Gardino wrote:

Superbone wrote:A lot of talk here about trading Warren but I just don't see it due to McD's MO. He seems to glom on to "his" players and never let go.

He was very active trading players when he first got here, but he hasn't traded one of 'his' guys without his hand being forced.

Exactly. He held onto Bledsoe waaaaaaaayyyyy too long.

Superbone wrote:

O_Gardino wrote:

Superbone wrote:A lot of talk here about trading Warren but I just don't see it due to McD's MO. He seems to glom on to "his" players and never let go.

He was very active trading players when he first got here, but he hasn't traded one of 'his' guys without his hand being forced.

Exactly. He held onto Bledsoe waaaaaaaayyyyy too long.

So many "aaaaaaaa", and still a big understatement...

The haul we got for Bledsoe was shameful. We essentially have nothing to show for that deal. And Milwaukee really wanted a veteran PG like Bledsoe. We should have been able to extract a higher price from them.

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:The haul we got for Bledsoe was shameful. We essentially have nothing to show for that deal. And Milwaukee really wanted a veteran PG like Bledsoe. We should have been able to extract a higher price from them.

We do have their first round pick this year. Not sure how you can call that essentially nothing. We very well might draft our PG of the future with that pick. Lots of guys in that range could be good. Holiday, Shake Milton. SGA probably goes too high, but you never know.

^ That's true; I am undervaluing the pick. I think it was especially crazy at the time of the deal, though, when Milwaukee looked poised to finish with one of the East's top records and therefore to have an awful pick. We are a bit fortunate that they have cooled off and are now only a fringe playoff team. That's a bit surprising given the Freak and the overall collection of talent they have on that roster.

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:^ That's true; I am undervaluing the pick. I think it was especially crazy at the time of the deal, though, when Milwaukee looked poised to finish with one of the East's top records and therefore to have an awful pick. We are a bit fortunate that they have cooled off and are now only a fringe playoff team. That's a bit surprising given the Freak and the overall collection of talent they have on that roster.

Then we wouldn't have gotten it this year. I like that at least it's protected on the other (weaker pick) side.

The haul wasn’t shameful to me. Bledsoe was and continues to be overrated. I’m happy with the deal