Suns News: The Offseason (2016)

[Ring_Wanted]

Via Gerald Bourguet:

Ryan McDonough said the #Suns won’t tear it down and build around youth, nor would they trade all the youngsters for more veteran talent.

Ryan McDonough says PHX is going to continue to try and do both RE: winning now and getting back to the playoffs vs. developing the young guys.

[ Image ]

I think this strategy makes perfect sense.

I could buy it these past two offseasons, but not now. Big time FAs have shown they have no interest in PHX and some winning is not going to change that, assuming we actually win and make the playoffs. Besides, many other teams will have cap space as well and our meta is terrible compared to most.

There is no strategy to take with Bledsoe other than try to win with him

Bledsoe is not Steve Nash, Dirk or Paul Pierce. You don't determine the general strategy of your franchise based on such player. If you can't get enough via trade, so be it. The market speaks. You cut your loses and move on. You don't juggle around for the benefit of ugly and dumb. I don't keep myself from drafting say Dunn if I deem him BPA because I have Bledsoe, the same way I don't stay away from Hield because of Knight.

The only real decisions to make are (1) what do you about the starting PF position; (2) what do you about Tyson/Len? (in my mind, we only need one); (3) how do you get rid of Knight, or can you make him ok with coming off the bench?

1.- PF is only a problem if you need to win. If you just keep rebuilding, having such hole on your roster actually helps matters. Anyway, I of course try to trade one of the guards for a PF with a plausible future on the team. Call Utah and see if they take any for Lyles as the core of a deal, for instance.

2.- I make Tyson available, but I am not in a hurry to dump him. Len's health is not reliable, and I like having a two towers setup as a resource. Len himself is not untouchable either.

3.- At any cost. Sunk cost be damned. Not even interested in 6th man role anymore. We have picks, Bogdanovic and of course the SG of the future in place.

[EDC]

The problem is they haven't shown any desire to get rid of Knight. I think most people agree that Booker has to start and that just leaves the bench for Knight. He has already said he expect to start. It seems pretty obvious they have to move him before the season starts otherwise their will be another mid season trade because of guard drama.

The problem is the front office is saying the same things they have in the past. They have already started hyping the three guard lineup. We thought it was a smoke screen in the past but it wasn't. Hard to assume they are going to move Knight. If they don't we are in for another rocky season with a lot of drama.

On the other hand they may just start Knight and bench Booker. Bledsoe/Knight with 32 each and then Booker with 20 and of course they can't leave out Price so he gets 12. I know that sounds like a joke but man it wouldn't shock me if it happened.

[Indy]

There is no strategy to take with Bledsoe other than try to win with him - it's not like we can deal him, given his injuries.

By definition, does that not mean it is a bad contract? Nobody else is willing to give him what we are?

And ditto to what Ring said. You don't build a strategy around a flawed piece because you can't get equal value for him in a trade. You take the hit in a trade, or you limit his play time to fit your direction as a franchise.

(2) what do you about Tyson/Len? (in my mind, we only need one)

Why would we only have 1 center on the team? That seems like a recipe for disaster, again.

(3) how do you get rid of Knight, or can you make him ok with coming off the bench?

So another poor personnel decision that we have to plan around. After what he said in his exit interview, our path should be clear. Obviously we didn't learn from Detroit or the Bucks, so we paid a flawed guy $70M and now don't think he fits in his current role....

I guess what I am saying is that I agree with you here. We need to get rid of him, even if we don't get back equal(ly flawed) talent. Just don't give up a pick to dump him.

[Indy]

....... I'm sorry, I was talking basketball instead of grousing. Get with the times, OE! Flames and flaming everywhere!

Talking basketball is good. I would really love it if our FO would do that instead of talking about fantasies.

And do you really think we will be significantly better next year than we were this year before Bledsoe went down?

If we keep our current roster intact, add our two 1st round picks, and replace Mirza with a less-talented player when he leaves for something closer to what he is worth to a contender, how many games do you think we will win? Are you in line with Ryan in that we will be close to 42 wins and fight to lose to GSW or SAS in the first round?

[OE32]

....... I'm sorry, I was talking basketball instead of grousing. Get with the times, OE! Flames and flaming everywhere!

Talking basketball is good. I would really love it if our FO would do that instead of talking about fantasies.

And do you really think we will be significantly better next year than we were this year before Bledsoe went down?

If we keep our current roster intact, add our two 1st round picks, and replace Mirza with a less-talented player when he leaves for something closer to what he is worth to a contender, how many games do you think we will win? Are you in line with Ryan in that we will be close to 42 wins and fight to lose to GSW or SAS in the first round?

Now is the time to start moving up the rankings, not down. We've made our draft selections, now we build. Alex hits RFA next year, then TJ, then Booker. We've got to put a team together, or we waste the talent we have.

My biggest complaint this year was the ball hogging by our back court and the consequent lack of shots for TJ, who, in my mind, is an elite scorer waiting to break out. I would like to see he and Booker starting this season. I don't mind Bled getting plenty of shots, but I do mind Knight taking too many. The problem is, TJ and Devin pass the ball, and Knight takes that as a signal that it's up to him to chuck. NO, that's a signal for you to share as well.

Do I think we'll be better with Bled and Warren back in the line-up? Of course. That doesn't seem to me to be a strange thing to believe. But it does seem to me that the fanbase is in favor of tanking when it makes little sense. It made sense in 2011-12, IMO, as well as 2012-13 and 2013-14. I was on the fence in 2014-15, but I thought we ultimately made the right decision to roll those players into more future picks. I just can't understand the rationale for tanking at THIS point. What's done is done; we've bottomed out. You don't hang out at the bottom - you grab your talent and move forward.

And let's be real - if we bottomed out next year, you'd flame the FO. If we try and fail to make the playoffs, you'll flame the FO. If we make it but only end up with the seventh seed, apparently, you'll still flame the FO. Even if we ended up with home court advantage, my feeling is, you'll still flame the FO, saying they got lucky, stumbled into this and that, saying it will all come crumbling down. I'm just getting tired of all this. I guess if my work were more enjoyable, I wouldn't keep responding.

[Indy]

And let's be real - if we bottomed out next year, you'd flame the FO. If we try and fail to make the playoffs, you'll flame the FO. If we make it but only end up with the seventh seed, apparently, you'll still flame the FO. Even if we ended up with home court advantage, my feeling is, you'll still flame the FO, saying they got lucky, stumbled into this and that, saying it will all come crumbling down.

I have been on here talking Suns basketball for nearly 15 years. I am certainly in Camp Realist versus Camp Positivity or Camp Negativity. I am surprised you think I have been flaming the FO forever, or will continue to do so forever. I complaint about missteps when I see them being made, but I also have supported quite a few recent moves when they happened (although many of the ones I even supported have come back to bite us lately).

I am the one encouraging the front office to fully rebuild and give Watson time to grow a team. Why would I be upset if they did that? They clearly didn't go after a top-tier coach, so why not give the new guy the time he needs to build?

I am upset that they keep taking half measures, which never fixes the problem.

It made sense in 2011-12, IMO, as well as 2012-13 and 2013-14. I was on the fence in 2014-15, but I thought we ultimately made the right decision to roll those players into more future picks

Do you think we have been tanking since 2011? We didn't tank any of those years, and this year we didn't start tanking this year until right before the all-star break. Just because we are not good doesn't mean we are tanking. And honestly, if we have been tanking for several years, we must not be good at that either. Because for all of our tanking, we got two #5 picks over that time. Not a #1, or a #2, or even a couple #3s.

Our plan seems to be, keep going after big FAs, and keep promising playoffs. But we continually fall short on both. That puts us in the lower end of the mediocrity bucket.

But this FO has been excellent...

To me, there is a spectrum between Excellence and Futility for a front office. For the last 8 years or so, I would rate us a just below mediocrity, with most of the last several years being much closer to futile. I truly am astonished that anyone would look at our performance and call it excellent.

If this is Excellence for you, I don't want to know what Average looks like.

[Indy]

I guess both of our jobs are boring today, OE. Despite my strongest disagreements with you over our strategy and performance, I am glad you are here being vocal about your opinions. No progress comes from perpetual agreement.

[OE32]

And let's be real - if we bottomed out next year, you'd flame the FO. If we try and fail to make the playoffs, you'll flame the FO. If we make it but only end up with the seventh seed, apparently, you'll still flame the FO. Even if we ended up with home court advantage, my feeling is, you'll still flame the FO, saying they got lucky, stumbled into this and that, saying it will all come crumbling down.

I have been on here talking Suns basketball for nearly 15 years. I am certainly in Camp Realist versus Camp Positivity or Camp Negativity. I am surprised you think I have been flaming the FO forever, or will continue to do so forever. I complaint about missteps when I see them being made, but I also have supported quite a few recent moves when they happened (although many of the ones I even supported have come back to bite us lately).

I am the one encouraging the front office to fully rebuild and give Watson time to grow a team. Why would I be upset if they did that? They clearly didn't go after a top-tier coach, so why not give the new guy the time he needs to build?

I am upset that they keep taking half measures, which never fixes the problem.

It made sense in 2011-12, IMO, as well as 2012-13 and 2013-14. I was on the fence in 2014-15, but I thought we ultimately made the right decision to roll those players into more future picks

Do you think we have been tanking since 2011? We didn't tank any of those years, and this year we didn't start tanking this year until right before the all-star break. Just because we are not good doesn't mean we are tanking. And honestly, if we have been tanking for several years, we must not be good at that either. Because for all of our tanking, we got two #5 picks over that time. Not a #1, or a #2, or even a couple #3s.

Our plan seems to be, keep going after big FAs, and keep promising playoffs. But we continually fall short on both. That puts us in the lower end of the mediocrity bucket.

But this FO has been excellent...

To me, there is a spectrum between Excellence and Futility for a front office. For the last 8 years or so, I would rate us a just below mediocrity, with most of the last several years being much closer to futile. I truly am astonished that anyone would look at our performance and call it excellent.

If this is Excellence for you, I don't want to know what Average looks like.

I am not saying that you have always flamed the FO. It's a recent development, but it's the whole board, and it doesn't seem to matter what they do at this point. I don't think we tanked in 2011-12 or 2012-13, when I advocated for it. I strongly disliked Babby, but I hated, HATED Lance Blanks. Those FOs were something to ridicule.

People are pissed at Sarver. I get that, but the reasons to be pissed off, in my view, have to do with selling draft picks during D'Antoni's tenure, replacing Amare with ass contracts, and hiring Babby and Blanks, who were awful. But since we've had McD, I've had very few complaints. So when you criticize this FO, I take it as a criticism of McD, whom I'm desperate to keep, mostly because I fear we'll replace him with more stupidity in the front office. Frankly, McD's the only good hire Sarver has made. So when people criticize him ad nauseum, I'm terrified that Sarver will take this as a reason to replace him - and I have zero confidence in Sarver's ability to pick a quality successor. McD's not been perfect, but he's put this team in a tremendous position going forward. I want to keep it up.

I hope this clarifies my position and some of the reasons I've been so defensive of McD. You can't replace the owner, but as long as McD calls the shots, I have no problem with Sarver. But if you call for McD's head, be careful what you wish for. Do you really trust Sarver to name a better GM? I think most GMs in this league are worse. And I wouldn't expect average. So I'm very, VERY happy with what we have.

[OE32]

I guess both of our jobs are boring today, OE. Despite my strongest disagreements with you over our strategy and performance, I am glad you are here being vocal about your opinions. No progress comes from perpetual agreement.

Don't mistake our constant bickering for dislike. You're my favorite poster, dude. Good luck with your move.

[JCSunsfan]

And let's be real - if we bottomed out next year, you'd flame the FO. If we try and fail to make the playoffs, you'll flame the FO. If we make it but only end up with the seventh seed, apparently, you'll still flame the FO. Even if we ended up with home court advantage, my feeling is, you'll still flame the FO, saying they got lucky, stumbled into this and that, saying it will all come crumbling down.

I have been on here talking Suns basketball for nearly 15 years. I am certainly in Camp Realist versus Camp Positivity or Camp Negativity. I am surprised you think I have been flaming the FO forever, or will continue to do so forever. I complaint about missteps when I see them being made, but I also have supported quite a few recent moves when they happened (although many of the ones I even supported have come back to bite us lately).

I am the one encouraging the front office to fully rebuild and give Watson time to grow a team. Why would I be upset if they did that? They clearly didn't go after a top-tier coach, so why not give the new guy the time he needs to build?

I am upset that they keep taking half measures, which never fixes the problem.

It made sense in 2011-12, IMO, as well as 2012-13 and 2013-14. I was on the fence in 2014-15, but I thought we ultimately made the right decision to roll those players into more future picks

Do you think we have been tanking since 2011? We didn't tank any of those years, and this year we didn't start tanking this year until right before the all-star break. Just because we are not good doesn't mean we are tanking. And honestly, if we have been tanking for several years, we must not be good at that either. Because for all of our tanking, we got two #5 picks over that time. Not a #1, or a #2, or even a couple #3s.

Our plan seems to be, keep going after big FAs, and keep promising playoffs. But we continually fall short on both. That puts us in the lower end of the mediocrity bucket.

But this FO has been excellent...

To me, there is a spectrum between Excellence and Futility for a front office. For the last 8 years or so, I would rate us a just below mediocrity, with most of the last several years being much closer to futile. I truly am astonished that anyone would look at our performance and call it excellent.

If this is Excellence for you, I don't want to know what Average looks like.

I am not saying that you have always flamed the FO. It's a recent development, but it's the whole board, and it doesn't seem to matter what they do at this point. I don't think we tanked in 2011-12 or 2012-13, when I advocated for it. I strongly disliked Babby, but I hated, HATED Lance Blanks. Those FOs were something to ridicule.

People are pissed at Sarver. I get that, but the reasons to be pissed off, in my view, have to do with selling draft picks during McD's tenure, replacing Amare with ass contracts, and hiring Babby and Blanks, who were awful. But since we've had McD, I've had very few complaints. So when you criticize this FO, I take it as a criticism of McD, whom I'm desperate to keep, mostly because I fear we'll replace him with more stupidity in the front office. Frankly, McD's the only good hire Sarver has made. So when people criticize him ad nauseum, I'm terrified that Sarver will take this as a reason to replace him - and I have zero confidence in Sarver's ability to pick a quality successor. McD's not been perfect, but he's put this team in a tremendous position going forward. I want to keep it up.

I hope this clarifies my position and some of the reasons I've been so defensive of McD. You can't replace the owner, but as long as McD calls the shots, I have no problem with Sarver. But if you call for McD's head, be careful what you wish for. Do you really trust Sarver to name a better GM? I think most GMs in this league are worse. And I wouldn't expect average. So I'm very, VERY happy with what we have.

OE, I am exactly where you are. I don't get the McD criticism. He is not perfect, but oh, it could be so much worse. I hated Lance Blanks.

And as far you Indy, I have always enjoyed your posts. I guess right now I feel bad for you. You seem to be so miserable about the Suns, and I see alot of good things ahead. Wish I could cheer you up somehow without starting an argument.

[Indy]

Wish I could cheer you up somehow without starting an argument.

Shut up, JC! Stop arguing with me!

[Indy]

Guys, I am most pissed about the unwillingness of our organization to call out what is wrong and take steps to fix it.

That said, I guess I am much more upset with Sarver than anything. I think it would be hard to find 3 other owners that have been as bad as him during the last 10-12 years. His decision are just so short sighted. And he calls the shots, He gives McD his marching orders. That worries me. So to be fair, I can't just much of what happens in the FO without the Sarver cloud over it. So maybe these bad decisions from Ryan are really just him abiding by the mandates he has been given. But I don't know. Is it working out better than Banks/Babby? Sure. Chernobyl looks quite pleasant today compared to 30 years ago too. But that doesn't mean it is good.

Maybe that helps explain my stance a bit better.

Also, I will say this: I really hope that Watson can turn into the best coach we have ever had. And that Booker turns into the best player we have ever had. And Len becomes the best Center.

I also hope that Sarver sells the team to me (and that something miraculous happens so that I could afford that--as my current 401k won't cover it).

[Indy]

I guess both of our jobs are boring today, OE. Despite my strongest disagreements with you over our strategy and performance, I am glad you are here being vocal about your opinions. No progress comes from perpetual agreement.

Don't mistake our constant bickering for dislike. You're my favorite poster, dude. Good luck with your move.

Thanks! I am going to need it!

[Mori Chu]

[Superbone]

I don't care what Knight thinks. Make him 6th man anyway. I don't see him as the type to make a lot of noise on the bench. If he does, trade him. Again. Maybe he'll start to see the light.

[Superbone]

The problem is, TJ and Devin pass the ball, and Knight takes that as a signal that it's up to him to chuck. NO, that's a signal for you to share as well.

It is imperative that Coach makes Knight accountable next year. He's got to move the ball. It can't stick with him.

[ShelC]

I don't see him as the type to make a lot of noise on the bench.

Doesn't seem that way from his quotes. Do we really want another guy causing issues? Have we not learned out lesson?

[Superbone]

I don't see him as the type to make a lot of noise on the bench.

Doesn't seem that way from his quotes. Do we really want another guy causing issues? Have we not learned out lesson?

Well, if there is any inkling that he's a troublemaker, ship him! Unfortunately, I get the feeling that McD doesn't share my opinion.

[Indy]

I don't see him as the type to make a lot of noise on the bench.

Doesn't seem that way from his quotes. Do we really want another guy causing issues? Have we not learned out lesson?

Well, if there is any inkling that he's a troublemaker, ship him! Unfortunately, I get the feeling that McD doesn't share my opinion.

If you wait until he is making trouble, it just devalues him more (see Dragic, Keef).

[Superbone]

I don't see him as the type to make a lot of noise on the bench.

Doesn't seem that way from his quotes. Do we really want another guy causing issues? Have we not learned out lesson?

Well, if there is any inkling that he's a troublemaker, ship him! Unfortunately, I get the feeling that McD doesn't share my opinion.

If you wait until he is making trouble, it just devalues him more (see Dragic, Keef).

Hey, I don't mind shipping him already. We NEED to feature Booker. However, I still contend that he won't be a trouble maker and I think Watson can keep him reigned in.