Phx-Suns.Net

Uncle Cliffy wasn't really a strong rebounder, but none of these guys are perfect players - they all have holes in their game somewhere.

Yea rebounding and rim protection were never his calling cards.

Who would be considered 2 way players today? Kawhi? LeBron? Anthony Davis? KAT? Draymond? Marc Gasol? Chris Paul? Giannis?

3rdside wrote:

ShelC wrote:What defines a 2-way player? Would Raja have qualified? He was more of a 3 and D type. JJ had the offensive game, but I don't remember him being a staunch defender.

Cliff Robinson? Solid post defender, could do just about everything offensively.

I looked up uncle spliffy's stats in all of this - for a guy who's 6'10" with long arms and playing 35 mins ... damn.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... ncl02.html

Not sure if that disqualifies him? Does that make rebounding a third way?


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http://bkref.com/tiny/E6c8i

Of 94 players 6-10 or taller with at leas 19000 minutes played, Cliffy ranks dead last in rebounds per minute.

Is it just coincidence that the bottom three players on the list, and five of the bottom eight, are former Suns? And IINM, Chandler and Shaq are the only current or former Suns in the top 50.

Manning, Chambers & James Edwards are all pretty prominent on that list as well.

ShelC wrote:Yea rebounding and rim protection were never his calling cards.

Who would be considered 2 way players today? Kawhi? LeBron? Anthony Davis? KAT? Draymond? Marc Gasol? Chris Paul? Giannis?

KD, Klay, Butler, Paul George, Khris Middleton, John Wall, Paul Millsap, Horford, Conley, ibaka, lowry,

The Bobster wrote:Manning, Chambers & James Edwards are all pretty prominent on that list as well.

Yup, Edwards makes it 6 Suns in the bottom 10. And 2 in the top 54. Wow.

I don't really like the premise of this thread. IMO it suffers from No True Scotsman syndrome, where every time we come up with a two-way player, somebody comes up with a reason why they don't really "count." Truth is that the Suns have had plenty of two-way players, as many here have posted. But if you want a truly great one, well, franchises don't have a ton of great players. That isn't specific to the Suns. How many great "two-way players" have the Warriors had? The Bulls? The Hawks?

I figured it would make for some good discussion, simply that.

The Bobster wrote:And Boris Diaw would be without question be on this list if he played every game like the 2006 playoffs.

And if we are limiting it just to their time on the Suns, I think he might be #1 on that list.

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:I don't really like the premise of this thread. IMO it suffers from No True Scotsman syndrome, where every time we come up with a two-way player, somebody comes up with a reason why they don't really "count." Truth is that the Suns have had plenty of two-way players, as many here have posted. But if you want a truly great one, well, franchises don't have a ton of great players. That isn't specific to the Suns. How many great "two-way players" have the Warriors had? The Bulls? The Hawks?

I don't see that happening here. What I see is old guys sharing about what old time players were good at.

"Older"

Big shaq

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O_Gardino wrote:

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:I don't really like the premise of this thread. IMO it suffers from No True Scotsman syndrome, where every time we come up with a two-way player, somebody comes up with a reason why they don't really "count." Truth is that the Suns have had plenty of two-way players, as many here have posted. But if you want a truly great one, well, franchises don't have a ton of great players. That isn't specific to the Suns. How many great "two-way players" have the Warriors had? The Bulls? The Hawks?

I don't see that happening here. What I see is old guys sharing about what old time players were good at.

Harrumph!

My bad. "Exceptionally Annuated." And I include myself in that category.

BlaCkAdDa wrote:Big shaq

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Was better when he was slightly smaller Shaq though.

He wasn't very mobile defensively by the time we got him here.

Michael Finley ?? He developed into a 2-way player after getting traded from Phoenix.

About Uncle Cliffy, he did average a block a game in a Suns uni. His rebounding was just so-so.

I'd say Marion, Diaw, Hill, Kidd, Majerle, Cliff, McDyess.

Actually, Uncle Cliff was a two time all nba second team. Rebounding aside, he'd be perfect for today's game.

Shaq's only defensive 'skill' by the time he got here was his size and intimidation from a slightly thug attitude. Remember how he would barely move laterally? I gotta tell you though, he seemed much more motivated than I expected, and retrospectively, his personal production was not bad during his tenure. Fit and style, on the other hand...

I remember cliff doing a pretty good job defending KG

Sorry if you think this is a hijack, but talking about players who used to be here made me wonder: Why did Amare "have" to have microfracture surgery? There were a few in a short time in the NBA that I can recall, but I haven't heard of any in a few years. Was that an experimental procedure and they have moved away from it? What are they doing in its place now? That surgery absolutely ruined his career.

This article spells it out pretty clearly:

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2014/03/21/ama ... at-it-was/

And this one from a couple years ago makes it seem like it's an outdated practice and there are better alternatives:

http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/news/gr ... 3m8bgvdv2q

I also don't think microfracture "ruined" Amare's career. He came back strong and had several good years after it. Zach Randolph had it when he was young (in 2005) and he's still playing. KMart had it while he was with the Nuggets in 2006 and had some good years afterwards. Each situation is different and it seems like the older the player, the less likely they are to recover - Penny, CWeb, Allan Houston, Mashburn, TMac never really made it back but were older or had knee issues prior and it was done as a last resort. Jason Kidd may be the most successful story; he had surgery in July 2004 when he was 31, returned that December and didn't miss a beat. Played another 8 seasons, averaging about 80 games for 7 of them.