Phx-Suns.Net

So reed plays great against the hornets and is rewarded with a few pointless garbage minutes tonight in a blow out loss?

djy2j wrote:Warren needs to add another dimension to his game this summer or else. He's below average at everything other than 2 point scoring. That is well above average and maybe even elite. But if he doesn't add anything else there is not enough to justify him as being a piece to build around.

I would sell high on Warren this summer.

Shaq looked good in his limited minutes. He was scoring at the basket at will.

I had this game on for a few minutes, but I bailed. It looked like the main drama was whether Lebron would get a triple-double, which he did and then promptly subbed himself out. That's okay; I wish we could have kept it closer, but even with their current drama, the Cavs are still led by the best player of this generation, and they're a lot better than we are. On to the next one.

O_Gardino wrote:

djy2j wrote:Warren needs to add another dimension to his game this summer or else. He's below average at everything other than 2 point scoring. That is well above average and maybe even elite. But if he doesn't add anything else there is not enough to justify him as being a piece to build around.

I would sell high on Warren this summer.

Agreed.

I’d like to see Bender, Chriss, Warren, Chandler and Daniels all gone in trades.

Let Len and Payton go.

Hang on to the rest, retool and start over.

I'd let Bender stick around. Warren I like but he's a luxury we really don't need so long as Jackson keeps progressing.

I'm cool with trading anyone not named Booker, Jackson or "unprotected Miami 1st round draft pick." I do like Bender but he just isn't getting it mentally and that's worrisome because he has a ton of talent. It's very hard to change a player's mentality. I see it all the time in youth sports. Those mental midgets that fall apart at the first sign of adversity generally stay that way. To compete you have to be a rabid dog out there (a bit of hyperbole on my part but my point stands.)

carey wrote:I'm cool with trading anyone not named Booker, Jackson or "unprotected Miami 1st round draft pick." I do like Bender but he just isn't getting it mentally and that's worrisome because he has a ton of talent. It's very hard to change a player's mentality. I see it all the time in youth sports. Those mental midgets that fall apart at the first sign of adversity generally stay that way. To compete you have to be a rabid dog out there (a bit of hyperbole on my part but my point stands.)

^^^ this regarding Bender.


Also, I just flat out do not like Chriss as a person on the basketball court. I do not like his game. I hate his temper. I hate his sense of entitlement. I hate him mentally struggling because he was benched. He's weak with a bad attitude about it.

I am going to keep repeating this.

If you want to trash Bender, or any other young player on the roster, you need to look at their age and experience.

Bender is 20 years old. 20. He was born in 1997. He was 2 weeks old when the movie "Titanic" came out in theaters. He came to the NBA with minimal pro hoops experience. He's really young, is my point.

If you give up on him now, you are giving up very early.

I like Bender, and would keep him unless a great deal comes my way. But right now, I don't think he has any value around the league. Who wants him, and what would they give? I think he has improved a lot in his 2 years, and I think he'll continue to grow. Even if he's never a true starter, I think he'll be better and more valuable next year than he is this summer.

I think Warren has peaked. Jackson will be eating into his minutes soon. 20pt scorer on a reasonable contract? Maybe someone wants him. We can't hold on too long to the guys who aren't a perfect fit on the team.

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:I am going to keep repeating this.

If you want to trash Bender, or any other young player on the roster, you need to look at their age and experience.

Bender is 20 years old. 20. He was born in 1997. He was 2 weeks old when the movie "Titanic" came out in theaters. He came to the NBA with minimal pro hoops experience. He's really young, is my point.

If you give up on him now, you are giving up very early.

Well, Carey just said that he's already given up on the kids in youth sports.

I think the case for trading Warren has to do with his redundant weaknesses with Jackson. If neither becomes a plus 3 point shooter, that severely limits the amount of time they can spend on the floor together, unless we upgrade the shooting around them.

And I'm Team Bender. For as frustrating as he often is, there's a lot to like there. His mentality has improved a lot since the beginning of the season.

I think he tops out as a really good role player. Not ideal for a 4th pick, but something that every good team needs. A big man who can hit 40% of his 3s, initiate the offense from the high post and credibly defend the perimeter (and hopefully the interior in time) is very rare.

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:I am going to keep repeating this.

If you want to trash Bender, or any other young player on the roster, you need to look at their age and experience.

Bender is 20 years old. 20. He was born in 1997. He was 2 weeks old when the movie "Titanic" came out in theaters. He came to the NBA with minimal pro hoops experience. He's really young, is my point.

If you give up on him now, you are giving up very early.

+1

We love to talk using hindsight about Robin Lopez, Joe Johnson, Alex Len, among many, as missed opportunities, heck someone even throwed recently that we used to have on the team three of the current top coaches in the league, but at the same time, we are very quickly to sharp the axes as soon as some player struggle.

They are not engines needing some mileage to reach peak efficiency, they are people, very young people needing development and guidance On and Off the court. We knew we were getting PROJECTS, and therefore the returns were unlikely to be seen early, many disagreed with it, and was ok then, but keeping on wishing something different is beyond possibilities, it’s DONE. And wishing them to fail or asking for their heads just to probe the point, it’s not fair, to the players, the team, not even our fellow fans.

Not easy to say it, but a project like Bender, would take maybe all four years in it’s rookie contract to find out what we have. Look at Alex Len per example. And in both cases, Watson’s time counts in opposite direction, (Undeveloping ?) so how much real development Bender truly have?

O_Gardino wrote:

Well, Carey just said that he's already given up on the kids in youth sports.

Lol. All I meant was that the mentality rarely ever changes.

Yea regarding our shooting it was indeed embarrassing to watch LeBron basically loathing on D
Just staying one foot outside the paint and only really defending on drives to the basket because he wasn't worried about going out to Payton n Josh and when switched on to TJ

I can’t wait for 5 years from now when finally age can’t be used as an excuse for why these nutless guys remain nutless.

You don’t hear a whisper around here about Archie any more, who many had a hard on for

Archie isn't a good comparison. He was a late 1st who couldn't shoot and never figured out how. And I don't remember any big supporters claiming he was a future star. There is a difference between thinking we should play our young guys to see what they are and thinking we should play our young guys because we think they are the future. If you want to give up on bender, that's fine, but it seems pointless. I can't imagine his value is very high at all and it doesn't hurt us to keep him on the roster. His salary is low and he's signed for 3 more years.

What's the best case scenario in giving up on Bender? Someone gives us a 2nd rounder and we get lucky and draft a steal while Bender never amounts to anything.

Worst case scenario: We decline the option years on benders rookie contract, we get nothing, he signs with a contender and plays a significant role on a title contender.

Compare that with the best and worst case scenarios if we keep him and it makes no sense. I'm willing to wait it out and see if he turns into a decent role player over picking up another 2nd round pick or late 1st. If he doesn't amount to anything in 2 years, just let him walk.

specialsauce wrote:I can’t wait for 5 years from now when finally age can’t be used as an excuse for why these nutless guys remain nutless.

You don’t hear a whisper around here about Archie any more, who many had a hard on for

No doubt the team is lucky to have fans like you, wishing them the best...

Really? Are you going to wait that long angling for some bogus bragging rights?

This is a HUGE off-season for the Suns and McDonough. He needs to drastically improve the talent level and competitiveness of this team or find himself lucky to be in the league.