Frank Vogel hired as new Coach

[Split T]

[INFORMER]

And I think that is the rub: can the Suns evolve past just having Book and Durant ISO? That was the one thing I thought Young could possibly bring to the table.

[Split T]

[Charlie Smithy!]

Ha, take that for data!!

Fizdale would also being some interesting lore with him from his past experiences. A real smorgasBorg of information.

I love Marty Stepp.

[Superbone]

Gambo saying good chance Young stays.

Sounds like the best outcome to me. We keep Young who has an offensive mind while bringing in a defensive minded head coach with championship experience. Let's go!

[ShelC]

Fizdale can stay where he is. He's a bullshit artist who got exposed in NY.

[Superbone]

I had us at 90% chance we’d move on from Ayton…this probably drops it to 80% for me. I know Vogel likes size

I think this has to go down to Book and KD and whether they believe they can play with Ayton.

It shouldn't. It should come down to what helps the Suns win. Kobe and Shaq won championships together while hating each other.

I agree. It's not up to the other players. It's up to the coach and Ayton to make it work. I just hope Ayton is willing to do what it takes as I've given up hope on him. Like they say, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

[Superbone]

I think this has to go down to Book and KD and whether they believe they can play with Ayton.

It has to come down to whether Vogel can get max-level contributions from Ayton on a consistent basis. If Ayton is going to regularly have 14/8 games where he barely even scores in the second halves of games, with mediocre defense, then the Suns aren't winning a championship. It's that simple.

And that's something that a new coach can easily fix.

TOTALLY disagree. See my previous post.

[Superbone]

I had us at 90% chance we’d move on from Ayton…this probably drops it to 80% for me. I know Vogel likes size

I think this has to go down to Book and KD and whether they believe they can play with Ayton.

It shouldn't. It should come down to what helps the Suns win. Kobe and Shaq won championships together while hating each other.

That's thing: I don't think anyone hates Ayton. I think they get along with him. It isn't personal. They just don't have confidence in him as a player; they don't trust him.

Same with most fans at this point.

[Superbone]

[ShelC]

Similarly, you can lead Ayton to the basket but you can't make him dunk.

The issue here is that if it doesn't work with Vogel "unlocking" DA, it kind of cements who and what he is. There's still an element of the unknown with DA right now where we get can value for him in a trade. If he keeps up with the "Dominayton" talk while sleepwalking into his usual 16 and 8, whatever interest there might be around the league will drop off that much more.

[Superbone]

[Superbone]

[Superbone]

[SunsSince92]

Gambo saying good chance Young stays.

Sounds like the best outcome to me. We keep Young who has an offensive mind while bringing in a defensive minded head coach with championship experience. Let's go!

Agreed. I'm relieved we've hired an experienced coach and the combination of Vogel's yin to Young's yang could be the perfect mix.

I'm intrigued to see what moves we make to fill out the roster. Of all the candidates it always felt like Vogel would require a bigger overhaul than the others to fit the way he likes to play.

[wpmiller42]

The nice thing is that we basically have 4 impactful players on the team right now: Booker, KD, Ayton, and CP3. Booker and KD are not a problem... any coach of any team is going to want those guys. Ayton and CP3 are the bigger question marks, so I think we'll get a strong sense of what Vogel wants to do with how we approach them.

[Drewsprocket]

I had us at 90% chance we’d move on from Ayton…this probably drops it to 80% for me. I know Vogel likes size

I think this has to go down to Book and KD and whether they believe they can play with Ayton.

It shouldn't. It should come down to what helps the Suns win. Kobe and Shaq won championships together while hating each other.

I agree. It's not up to the other players. It's up to the coach and Ayton to make it work. I just hope Ayton is willing to do what it takes as I've given up hope on him. Like they say, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

Book and KD have an opinion about Ayton. And while I don’t pretend to know what that is, I do believe it is a major factor moving forward- this is a players league. If Book is done with Ayton, Ayton is gone. It may be that he isn’t and it’s why we’re seeing Vogel- who knows. But seeing Monty fired: I think we’re seeing that Monty is blamed for the lack of playoff success. And after the monumental loss to Dallas, Monty didn’t rally the team together. He in fact made the team worse off. He was dismissive of Jae and withheld affection and congratulations for Ayton. Perhaps he assumed they would be traded idk. But you don’t want to do that if these are your guys you need to rely on to win games. You repair the relationship so you dont leave Book out to dry.

[Shabazz]

Split said it. Even if a new coach could re-engage Ayton, DA's contract is one of our only avenues to improve the roster.

[TOO]

Does moving Ayton improve the roster more than an engaged Ayton would? That's the question. No doubt lengthening the roster would do wonders, I love that Vogel is a defensive guy that values rim protection, where does that come from without Ayton (not that he was giving any) if they move on? I've long been in the trade Ayton camp, so I'm just wondering out loud here.

[wpmiller42]

Does moving Ayton improve the roster more than an engaged Ayton would? That's the question. No doubt lengthening the roster would do wonders, I love that Vogel is a defensive guy that values rim protection, where does that come from without Ayton (not that he was giving any) if they move on? I've long been in the trade Ayton camp, so I'm just wondering out loud here.

If Vogel thinks he can get 2021 Playoff Ayton to be the Ayton we see on a night-in night-out basis (and especially even more so in the 2024 playoffs) AND you can play him minutes commensurate with Booker, then you keep Ayton and I think we'll be fine. Otherwise, I think the first call you make is to the Pacers and see if they'd be interested in Ayton for Turner and Hield.