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Mori Chu wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 04, 2020 7:10 am

How many big men in the NBA would you say are clearly better than Ayton right now?

Anthony Davis
Joel Embiid
Nikola Jokic
Karl Anthony Towns?
LaMarcus Aldridge? (no)

Any others? Giannis is better, but he isn't really the same position as Ayton. So don't we basically have a top-5 big man in the NBA? Who did I miss?

I’d add Rudy and Bam

I am happy with Ayton’s progress. Can he be better? Of course.

Split T wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 04, 2020 8:23 am

Mori Chu wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 04, 2020 7:10 am

How many big men in the NBA would you say are clearly better than Ayton right now?

Anthony Davis
Joel Embiid
Nikola Jokic
Karl Anthony Towns?
LaMarcus Aldridge? (no)

Any others? Giannis is better, but he isn't really the same position as Ayton. So don't we basically have a top-5 big man in the NBA? Who did I miss?

I’d add Rudy and Bam

I wouldn't have Anthony Davis on that list; he spends too much time playing alongside Howard and McGee.

Ayton is more productive and a greater physical talent than Aldridge, but San Antonio is probably a worse team this year if you swapped the two. So that one is tricky.

I think Towns, Jokic, and Embiid are the only centers that are clearly better. I would say Bam Adebayo and Rudy Gobert are better, but it is debatable, especially since you can argue that Bam is more of a power forward.

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 04, 2020 12:35 am

People on this board don’t recognize how good he already is.

I think context gets overlooked.

Start with the Mike Schmitz tweet. He has to put the qualifier there of age. Well yeah, if you apply that qualifier, that eliminates the majority of all-time great big men because most played at a time when players liked playing in college and didn't have a problem spending 3-4 years in school. Schmitz created a premise where you can't compare Ayton to Ewing, Robinson, or Olajuwon.


Additionally, after Shaq's prime, the NBA probably went a decade without having a great player play the center position. Jamaal Magloire was making All-Star teams for crying out loud.

Most importantly, the NBA game has evolved to marginalize the value of big men. So even if you have a great player or great production at that position, it doesn't necessarily lead to team success.

Ayton made significant strides in his limited time on the court in his second season and is trending towards being a great player that hopefully effects winning.

Which of these guys are better two years after being drafted? Davis, Jokic, Towns. That's a pretty short list.

I forgot how good Towns was in his second year. Insane.

I'd like to see us start Kaminsky next to Ayton and have Saric come off the bench. I think Kaminsky's passing could really help in feeding Ayton. And I think Saric could be a better focal point in the second unit.

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:23 am

Split T wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 04, 2020 8:23 am

Mori Chu wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 04, 2020 7:10 am

How many big men in the NBA would you say are clearly better than Ayton right now?

Anthony Davis
Joel Embiid
Nikola Jokic
Karl Anthony Towns?
LaMarcus Aldridge? (no)

Any others? Giannis is better, but he isn't really the same position as Ayton. So don't we basically have a top-5 big man in the NBA? Who did I miss?

I’d add Rudy and Bam

I wouldn't have Anthony Davis on that list; he spends too much time playing alongside Howard and McGee.

Ayton is more productive and a greater physical talent than Aldridge, but San Antonio is probably a worse team this year if you swapped the two. So that one is tricky.

I think Towns, Jokic, and Embiid are the only centers that are clearly better. I would say Bam Adebayo and Rudy Gobert are better, but it is debatable, especially since you can argue that Bam is more of a power forward.

The only players of that list I’d take over Ayton are Jokic and Davis. The rest are rather inferior offensively or defensively, with more experience in the league already.

If he continues to improve at the rate he has on the defensive end, he’s going to be the best all around big man in the league in no time.

I think we all know how good Ayton is and he also showed marked improvement in year two. I think some of us just want him to play to his potential. He's not a consistently aggressive player and that may never come but I've even seen improvement in that area. Once he figures out how dominant he can be, who know, he could just take over when he wants.

I'm super impressed how he can stay with and defend little guys.

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 04, 2020 12:57 pm

I forgot how good Towns was in his second year. Insane.

I'd like to see us start Kaminsky next to Ayton and have Saric come off the bench. I think Kaminsky's passing could really help in feeding Ayton. And I think Saric could be a better focal point in the second unit.

Kaminsky's stats are better than I remember but I'd lean Bridges / Johnson starting I think. Kaminsky is slooow..

3rdside wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 05, 2020 12:11 am

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 04, 2020 12:57 pm

I forgot how good Towns was in his second year. Insane.

I'd like to see us start Kaminsky next to Ayton and have Saric come off the bench. I think Kaminsky's passing could really help in feeding Ayton. And I think Saric could be a better focal point in the second unit.

Kaminsky's stats are better than I remember but I'd lean Bridges / Johnson starting I think. Kaminsky is slooow..

Kaminski is such a bad defender. I wouldn't play him more than spot minutes.

Kaminsky does a really good job with spacing and is passable as a PF defender and rebounder in certain matchups

That is my favorite stat. The Suns of the last decade have been a one on one team that has been painful to watch. Our latest team leads the NBA in assists and that translates into much more enjoyable basketball as a fan.

Josh Jackson can't even get that right. 10 years ago they were in the Western Conference Finals. 6 years ago they won 48 games.

With a little self-examination, Jackson might come to the realization that... A) He's a dumbass (the concert arrest/fiasco is enough to prove that) and B) He's a terrible basketball player (considering the physical talent he was gifted)

Sarver is indeed a terrible owner, but that doesn't absolve any of the players from their own terrible effort or personal decisions while they were here.

Jackson is mostly wrong. But it's still bad to send players away with them hating our franchise so much. Jackson isn't the only bitter ex-Sun. We seem to tick off an inordinate number of former players.

Mori Chu wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 07, 2020 10:30 am

Jackson is mostly wrong. But it's still bad to send players away with them hating our franchise so much. Jackson isn't the only bitter ex-Sun. We seem to tick off an inordinate number of former players.

might be because we shouldn't have hired them in the first place (considering we know we don't have the right support systems in place).

Mori Chu wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 07, 2020 10:30 am

Jackson is mostly wrong. But it's still bad to send players away with them hating our franchise so much. Jackson isn't the only bitter ex-Sun. We seem to tick off an inordinate number of former players.

Only because we drafted an inordinate number of nut cases. To be fair, is true the Suns have failed managing egos, but some of those malcontent players are just kids with an inflated ego. Sad thing is that Jackson would be better serve by looking into the mirror what he could have done better. Blaming the organization won’t save his spot in the league, but as usual, placing blame in the outside environment instead of your inner self, prevents you from true growth. The team will simply pass onto the next 20 year old kid, while Josh will pack his bags out of the league maybe as soon as next year.

And the current crop of kids are doing just fine so, the timing for this shot is a bad as his shooting form on the court...

His behavior helps me appreciate that he's gone. I don't think McD did any kind of behavioral profiling.

Superbone wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 07, 2020 12:56 pm

His behavior helps me appreciate that he's gone. I don't think McD did any kind of behavioral profiling.

Not even the basic type of using common sense when evaluating prospects. I mean nearly all entitled kids make bad decisions. But there is a difference in making a bad decision where you choose the wrong agent, or let a family member run some of your business decisions, or party too much. But when there is a history of violence or poor behavior on the court/locker room, you have to question it more.