Suns News: 2019 Off-Season

[Indy]

I'm curious what the national "experts" said prior to the jump made by previous teams that weren't good and then all of a sudden got much better. What was their pre-season prediction of those teams? Unless a team adds a superstar(s), I am fairly confident that they rarely see the improvement coming so fast and the record changing so drastically.

Do you mean going from one of the worst 3-4 teams in the league to being one of the bottom 7-8? Or bottom 10? I think at that point it is pretty meaningless and I wouldn't see that as a miss on the analysts.

If you mean going from bottom half to top quarter, that would be a big miss. Not sure how many times that has happened without signing a superstar. You could count when we brought in Nash. People didn't question how good he was, just that he wouldn't last through his contract. But nobody expected he would be an MVP. What other examples of that type of turn around are there without bringing in a superstar?

[In2ition]

I'm curious what the national "experts" said prior to the jump made by previous teams that weren't good and then all of a sudden got much better. What was their pre-season prediction of those teams? Unless a team adds a superstar(s), I am fairly confident that they rarely see the improvement coming so fast and the record changing so drastically.

Do you mean going from one of the worst 3-4 teams in the league to being one of the bottom 7-8? Or bottom 10? I think at that point it is pretty meaningless and I wouldn't see that as a miss on the analysts.

If you mean going from bottom half to top quarter, that would be a big miss. Not sure how many times that has happened without signing a superstar. You could count when we brought in Nash. People didn't question how good he was, just that he wouldn't last through his contract. But nobody expected he would be an MVP. What other examples of that type of turn around are there without bringing in a superstar?

Of course I didn't mean one of the worst 3-4 teams to being one of the bottom 7-8. I agree, I wouldn't consider that a miss.

How about teams that made a big jump like Milwaukee and Denver last year? Or GSW when they went from 23 Ws in 2011-12 to 47 Ws in 2012-13? Or OKC when they went from 23 Ws in 2008-09 to 50 wins in 2009-10? I don't remember them adding a superstar to their teams, but made smart moves to solidify their roster, along with maturity of their players.

[Cap]

I'm curious what the national "experts" said prior to the jump made by previous teams that weren't good and then all of a sudden got much better. What was their pre-season prediction of those teams? Unless a team adds a superstar(s), I am fairly confident that they rarely see the improvement coming so fast and the record changing so drastically.

Do you mean going from one of the worst 3-4 teams in the league to being one of the bottom 7-8? Or bottom 10? I think at that point it is pretty meaningless and I wouldn't see that as a miss on the analysts.

If you mean going from bottom half to top quarter, that would be a big miss. Not sure how many times that has happened without signing a superstar. You could count when we brought in Nash. People didn't question how good he was, just that he wouldn't last through his contract. But nobody expected he would be an MVP. What other examples of that type of turn around are there without bringing in a superstar?

Atlanta Hawks. Went 38-44 in 2013-14, then went 60-22 the following season with pretty much the same roster.

[Indy]

I'm curious what the national "experts" said prior to the jump made by previous teams that weren't good and then all of a sudden got much better. What was their pre-season prediction of those teams? Unless a team adds a superstar(s), I am fairly confident that they rarely see the improvement coming so fast and the record changing so drastically.

Do you mean going from one of the worst 3-4 teams in the league to being one of the bottom 7-8? Or bottom 10? I think at that point it is pretty meaningless and I wouldn't see that as a miss on the analysts.

If you mean going from bottom half to top quarter, that would be a big miss. Not sure how many times that has happened without signing a superstar. You could count when we brought in Nash. People didn't question how good he was, just that he wouldn't last through his contract. But nobody expected he would be an MVP. What other examples of that type of turn around are there without bringing in a superstar?

Atlanta Hawks. Went 38-44 in 2013-14, then went 60-22 the following season with pretty much the same roster.

that is a good one. Even kept the same coach. I assume this happens for 1-2 teams every few years. Let's hope it happens this year for the Suns.

[ShelC]

Article of Saric from a Sixers fan perspective:

https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2019 ... ixers-fans

[In2ition]

GSW 2011 season preview from Bleacher Report :

With the NBA season kicking off on Christmas Day, the Golden State Warriors, like almost all other teams, have only a few days left to finalize their roster before opening their 2011-12 campaign at home against the Los Angeles Clippers.

The Dubs currently hold 16 players on their training camp roster, but only 15 spots are available once the NBA season commences. The Warriors will decide the fate of that final roster spot very shortly; but, of course, the last cut is the most painful. Who will it be?

A closer look at the Warriors’ roster shows a who’s who of who-are-yous? Behind the familiar starting lineup is a supporting cast of newbies and new blood—the entire bench save for one player, Ekpe Udoh, was not with Golden State last season. As such, first-time head coach Mark Jackson will be relying heavily on the starters throughout the season.

Fortunately for Warriors fans, the starters are recognizable, and all five of them return from last season’s squad: point guard Stephen Curry, shooting guard Monta Ellis, small forward Dorell Wright, power forward David Lee and center Andris Biedrins.

Though the starting five have combined for 28 total seasons in the NBA, none of them are older than 28 years old. It’s would be nice for Jackson to lean on some deeper experience during this strike-shortened season.

After all, the Warriors’ bench depth is going to be a concern. Golden State made tiny ripples in the free agency pool during the abbreviated offseason, signing veterans Kwame Brown, Dominic McGuire and Brandon Rush.

Who?

The remainder of the roster is completely raw. In fact, the combined number of NBA seasons for the 11 current bench players is 19 seasons. They include six rookies or players with no NBA experience whatsoever and two second-year pros. That greenness will play a factor in the compressed stretches of the season. Golden State’s bench unfortunately does not provide the leadership or sage experience that a young team needs.

The Warriors were (un)fortunate to select three players from the 2011 NBA draft—Klay Thompson, Jeremy Tyler and Charles Jenkins. All three rookies are locks for the opening day roster. But behind them are Tommie Mitchell, Ish Smith, Edwin Ubiles and Chris Wright.

Who?

It seems that no matter who inches ahead and snatches the last roster spot, the Warriors will be babysitting a very inexperienced unfledged group of youngsters. And with the most experienced player being Brown, the Dubs will have even further lack of guidance among the second string.

To be sure, the Warriors will have to depend heavily on their starters to get them through the season, especially with Coach Jackson’s new mantra of instilling a defensive presence. The lack of a true preseason, along with the shuffling of players through the small free agency window, will make it difficult to gel on the defensive side of the ball.

Yes, Thompson is seen as being thoroughly ready to contribute to the team, but defensively, he’ll have to learn the nuances of a tough, fast and dynamic NBA.

After all, defense requires more repetition than does offense, where natural skill and instinct take over during new partnerships and team acquisitions. That is why Jackson will lean on his veteran starters tremendously if they are to see their postseason dream ripen to fruition. Thompson and the rookie class may look nice in relief roles on offense, but during the key stretches of games—of the season—Golden State will have to depend on the starters.

And that’s why it’s going to be a long and difficult shortened season for the Golden State Whos.

[In2ition]

https://akennedy13.wordpress.com/2011/1 ... n-preview/

Didn't even have GSW in his top 8 in the Western Conference.


https://hoopsthereitis.wordpress.com/ca ... 2011-2012/

Fighting for right to be this year’s Memphis Grizzlies

9. Golden State Warriors
No, I’m not a fan of Mark Jackson. But it’s hard not to be a fan of Stephen Curry and Monta Ellis. This is one of the best backcourts in the league and will get better. But it really comes down to a couple of draft picks that will solidify the bench. Last year’s top pick PF Epke Udoh will come in healthy and this year’s pick SG Klay Thompson will be factors. They won’t make the playoffs, but they’ll keep it interesting long enough.

[In2ition]

https://www.thesportskave.com/nba-preview-2012/

Pacific:

1. Los Angeles Lakers (3)

2. Los Angeles Clippers (6)

3. Sacramento Kings

4. Golden State Warriors

5. Phoenix Suns

The Warriors will debut Mark Jackson as head coach. It will be interesting to see if he can get his offensive minded team to play defense. He will start the season with a hobbled Stephan Curry who hurt his ankle in the pre-season. Monte Ellis is returning and so is Dorell Wright, who had a breakout season last year, but I don’t see this team doing more than upsetting a few teams here and there.



https://sportsbyblayze.blogspot.com/201 ... stern.html

9. Golden St. Warriors

Projected Rotation

C - Andris Biedrins
PF - David Lee
SF - Dorell Wright
SG - Monta Ellis
PG - Stephen Curry

PF, C Kwame Brown
PF, C Ekpe Udoh
SG, SF Klay Thompson
SG, SF Brandon Rush
PG Ishmael Smith
SG, SF Dominic McGuire

Mark Jackson is now the man who will try to turn around the down trodden Warriors. This team has the offensive talent to make a playoff push. Monta Ellis, David Lee, Stephen Curry and Dorrell Wright can all give you 20 points on any given night. The key to the Warriors will be, as always, if they can play any defense whatsoever. The back court will most likely be abused on a daily basis once again. The team at least attempted to shore up some front court defense by signing Kwame Brown to an outrageous 7 million dollars for one year. If Ekpe Udoh can continue to develop those two guys will at least be able to protect the rim. And maybe, just maybe, Andris Biedrins can stop his baffling decline in play. Golden St. has the young legs to keep up pace during the shortened season, and that could help them grab that wide open eighth seed.

[In2ition]

https://hardwoodcourtroom.blogspot.com/ ... stern.html

GOLDEN STATE WARRIORS

Offseason Recap: Let’s start with the most noteworthy signing… Head Coach Mark Jackson! When hiring an ABC analyst who’s never coached at any level is your team’s high-point of the summer, that’s never a good thing. When it comes to clever catch phrases (“Momma there goes that man!” “3-ball corner pocket!”), Mark’s in a league of his own. Unfortunately, I think that’s the league he was best suited for. Even if I’m wrong, there’s still little to get excited about from the Warriors’ offseason. They signed Kwame Brown to an absurd $7-million contract, did nothing to address the awkward Steph Curry-Monta Ellis pairing, and look poised to continue their streak of awful lottery selections (minus Curry) with overrated guard Klay Thompson next in line.

Offseason Grade: C- Projected 2011-12 Record: 29-37 (10th in West)


https://www.welcometoloudcity.com/2011/ ... am-preview

2011-2012 Golden State Warriors Team Preview
1
By Marina Mangiaracina@MarinaWTLC Nov 11, 2011, 2:42pm CST
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Hello Thunder fans. No, you haven't accidentally clicked on a link to Golden State of Mind. Rather, I was enlisted by Jeff Clark of CelticsBlog to do the Warriors preview for the 2011-2012 set of NBA Blogger previews, as it seems no one from GSoM had the time. I was more than happy to oblige, so without further ado, here's my preview for the 2011-2012 Golden State Warriors!

Team Name: The Golden State Warriors

Last Year's Record: 36-46

Key Free Agents: Reggie Williams, Al Thornton, Vladimir Radmanovic

1. What are your team's biggest needs this offseason?

The Warriors are a team that lacks, and has always lacked a true center. Andris Biedrins was a average to cood center a few years ago, but now he's all but ignored offensively. And aside from him, there really isn't anybody. Louis Amundson is an alright power forward, but lacks the necessary size to be a center. Ekpe Udoh is young and shows promise, but he struggled to find minutes last season under the irrational coaching of Keith Smart. Last season they dipped into free agency in order to sign NBA Journeyman Dan Gadzuric, but he was traded late in the season for Troy Murphy's contract. There's nobody esepcially tantaliying in the free agency pool, so it's looking like the Warriors will have to either continue going small, stick some really average guy there, or continue experiencing growing pains with Ekpe Udoh and possibly Jeremy Tyler.

Aside from that, they could use some good regular rotation players. Last season, the Warriors had a really solid core of Ellis, Curry, Lee, and Wright. And a few times, Reggie Williams played on their level. But outside of those 5, the rotation was really waggly. Nobody really had a defined role, and players would often look useless on the floor. Watching Acie Law pound the ball into the floor a thousand times was especially painful. Part of it was injuries, to be sure, but getting a couple of guys in key positions who could help off of the bench would be a huge boost.

Below: Strengths and Weaknesses, How the Team is Set up for 2012, Changing the CBA, Getting Out of the Playoff Dungeon, and a Record Prediction!


2. What are the team's biggest strengths & weaknesses?

Their biggest strength is one of the most powerfual guard duos in the NBA, functioning almost as Yin and Yang. Monta Ellis is the headstrong scoring guard who gradually learned to love the pass. He plays within his means, and knows when his opponent can't. His tattoos are questionable at best, but Warrior fans love him all the same. Stephen Curry is the main passer though, and he's one of the best shooters in the league.

The downside to having an excellent scoring duo is that if one has an off-night, it's really hard to make up for it. The Warriors were 13-23 when Stephen Curry scored less than 20, and an amazingly bad 3-20 when Monta Ellis scored less than 20. Being hot and cold is natural for a player, but you've got to have some sort of backup for your main guys, and outside of three-happy Dorrell Wright, the Warriors don't have that.

Another strength is the team's quickness. In this sense, it is still very much Don Nelson's team. The Warriors are second in the NBA in steals, helped by their ability to lure opposing teams into their fast paced style. By doing this, other teams are more prone to make bad long range passes. But this isn't to take away from the defensive ability of the Warriors on the perimeter, which is spot on.

Another downside of the team is their over-reliance on David Lee's post scoring and rebounds. When David Lee was out with a "zombie bite" for a stretch of 8 games in November of 2011, the Warriors failed to hit 100 points four times, and lost all of the games save for a matchup against lowly Detroit. It put the Warriors in a huge hole they were never able to get out of, and emphasized their almost complete reliance on David Lee scoring in the post. Of course, the 7 game losing streak in December wasn't pretty, either. But that was against some really tough opponents. Lee isn't hot and cold as much as Ellis or Curry might be, but when he's out, it can be devastating.

Something that can be both a strength and a weakness for the Warriors is their hot and cold streaks during a game. Obviously, it's not as bad as it was during the We Believe era, where players emotions seemed to go up and down faster than a teenage girl's. But the sentiment still remains with this team. At times, the Warriors look like they could cruise to an NBA Finals victory, and there's time that it looks like any local high school team could beat them. It depends on how you look at it, and at what time it happens, but it's definitely something to keep a watch on.

3. If there is no season in 2011-12, how is your team set up for 2012?

Well, there are good things to be considered. The Warriors still hold their draft pick, which is important since they'll probably still be considered a lottery team. But, most importantly, David Lee, Monta Ellis, Stephen Curry, and Dorell Wright will all still be on the books. They'll shed the useless 4 million dollar contract of Charlie Bell, and they shouldn't have a big problem re-signing Louis Amundson or fan-favourite Jeremy Lin to small contracts. Klay Thompson, who is sure to add a scoring punch to n already high-octane offense, will have another year to develop. Heck, even Andris Biedrins, who has been a ball and chain of a contract, will have some trade value as a expiring deal.

But there are potential downsides. We lose prime years in the careers of Monta Ellis, Dorrell Wright, and David Lee. The players will go an entire year without so much as seeing their coach, Mark Jackson. And Joe Lacob and Peter Guber lose money, giving them reason to raise the already absurd concession stand prices. But, all in all, there aren't any huge losses for the Warriors if we lose the season. Any foreseeable losses, anyway.

4. If you could make one change the NBA's new CBA, what would it be?

This might be a bit obvious for long-time Warriors fans, but the one thing the Warriors could use is an amnesty clause. That is, an contract out if a player is not performing up to standards. I can't tell you how many times Warrior fans have lamented over contracts given to guys like Mike Dunleavy, Troy Murphy, Derek Fisher, and Adonal Foyle (sorry man, I had to say it). Obviously, the contracts they have right now aren't as bad, but with the Warriors' injury luck, I wouldn't be surprised to see a situation like this arise again.

5. Will the Warriors ever get out of the non-playoff dungeon?

It's a really tough question to answer. It could be argued that if David Lee and Stephen Curry weren't injured last year, the Warriors might have finished at .500. But in recent years, .500 isn't even close to what you need for a playoff run in the West. Unless Klay Thompson, a Free Agency signing, or a really good trade happens to reverse our fortunes, it really depends on what other teams do. Obviously new coach Mark Jackson is a factor, but I don't see him being too much better than Keith Smart, who's main flaw was his terrible lineup management. More appropriate questions for Warriors fans might be: Does Denver keep their ship of good but not great players together? Do the Jazz find a way to succeed without Jerry Sloan? Does Chris Paul keep the Hornets going strong? Does Houston finally break up the post-Yao ship in search of another face to their franchise? The questions could go on and on.

Predicted Record: 38-44

Be sure to head over to Golden State of Mind for the best Warriors community on the net!

[In2ition]

Now for the 2012 season previews of GSW

https://www.opposingviews.com/sports/20 ... l-30-teams

11. GOLDEN STATE WARRIORS: I just wanna see Andrew Bogut be completely healthy.

Otherwise, in the world of these Warriors, we don't know what day it is over there.


https://www.footbasket.com/2012/09/2012 ... w-all.html

19. With recent additions in Andrew Bogut, Jarrett Jack, a solid draft class and two almost new ankles for Stephen Curry, are the Golden State Warriors a playoff team this year? Or is this another case of "high hopes" for befuddled Warriors fans?


https://www.channelguidemag.com/tv-news ... w-2012-13/

No mention of the GSW.


https://www.si.com/nba/2013/12/13/nba-p ... ystal-ball

Golliver
Also known as "Whoever finishes ninth in the Western Conference," this one will come down to Dallas, Golden State and Minnesota. Assuming Dirk Nowitzki is back quickly as expected, look for the Mavericks to squeeze into the playoffs, leaving the Warriors and Timberwolves on the outside looking in. Both teams have injury problems to key players, but Golden State can find success playing small if center Andrew Bogut can't get right and it did well to hedge against point guard Stephen Curry's ankle drama by picking up Jarrett Jack. The Timberwolves will have to reintegrate Ricky Rubio midseason, play the constant "What will we get from him?" game with Brandon Roy and make do early in the season without their franchise player, Kevin Love.


https://sircharlesincharge.com/2012/10/ ... cted-wins/

Over 35.5 – Golden State Warriors
I normally do not place any weight on the NBA preseason. The Lakers record (0-8) is not indicative of how good they are, nor the Bobcats record (1-7)…..actually, never mind. The Warriors, however, had the best record in the West (6-2), while missing Andrew Bogut and Stephen Curry for majority of the preseason. Take these preseason stats with a grain of salt: David Lee led the NBA in scoring and was 3rd in Player Efficiency; Carl Landry ranked 11th in FG%; Klay Thompson ranked 4th in NBA.com’s Fantasy Player Rater; and Curry ranked 9th in 3pt FG%. After the All-Star break last season, Lee ranked 11th in Player Efficiency and PAR (Points + Assists + Rebounds) leaders, ahead of LaMarcus Aldridge, Kevin Garnett, and Dirk Nowitzki, to name a few PFs. As for Klay Thompson, I mentioned in my Western Conference preview the following stats: as a rookie, Klay had higher averages than Monta Ellis in FG%, 3pt FG%, FT%, and points per shot, all while playing 8 more games and 12 fewer minutes per game. They’re 2-deep in every position with Curry, Jarrett Jack, Thompson, Brandon Rush, Harrison Barnes, Richard Jefferson, Lee, Landry, Bogut, and Andris Biedrins. Even with their history of health woes, Mark Jackson has a good squad that will be gunning for the playoffs and should finish really close with 40 wins.


https://www.foxsports.com/ohio/story/nb ... med-100512

NBA Preview: Aw, shoot. Warriors seem armed
foxsports
Oct 5, 2012 at 7:43p ET
Shoot first, second and third, and don’t bother asking questions later. Just keep shooting.

That seems to be the philosophy of the perimeter-proficient Golden State Warriors entering their second season under coach Mark Jackson.

Of course, unlike predecessor Don Nelson, Jackson’s teams at least try in other areas of the game. But when you have the bullets, you may as well put them in the pistol and fire away.

From Stephen Curry to Klay Thompson to Harrison Barnes to Brandon Rush, the Warriors are one of the few teams that can give their guys the green light without concern. Each has zip code range, too.

What makes these Warriors different than in years past is, again, they now have interior guys willing to take a stab at defense, rebounding, and real-life moves in the post.

Also, Curry is an underrated passer who distributes graciously — perhaps an easier task with Monta Ellis no longer on the team. Nowadays, Curry actually may get the ball back.

So while the Warriors may not possess a super-duper star (or even All-Star), they do seem to have enough of just about everything. Occasionally, that counts for something.

Last season: 23-43, did not make playoffs.

Coach: Mark Jackson (23-43, 2nd year).

Top returnees: PG Stephen Curry, PF David Lee, C Andrew Bogut.

Key additions: SF Harrison Barnes, PG Jarrett Jack, PF Carl Landry.

X-Factor: Curry and Bogut. Two big names and everyone loves their games. What’s not so great is their injury history. If either makes his annual pilgrimage from the court to the sidelines for an extended stay, the Warriors can forget visions of the playoffs. Each is just too valuable to be wearing street clothes on gameday. On the other hand, if both can pull off the practically unthinkable and suit up the majority of the time, who knows? The Warriors may have something here.

Strengths: Curry can shoot well from anywhere. Thompson began to do the same toward the end of last season. Barnes arrives with a similar reputation. Throw in Bogut, Lee, Jack and a still-productive Jefferson, and the Warriors shouldn’t have a problem scoring. That’s true if even one or more have an off night. Along with that, Bogut, Lee and Landry are capable of grabbing any misses — and either following them up or kicking it back out for another try.

Weaknesses: Well, let’s just say nobody on the roster is likely to make a strong case for the league’s all-defensive team. The Warriors aren’t wretched, but they’re pretty darn close. Rebounding shouldn’t be an issue, but other important subtleties, such a chasing down loose balls, seem to be lacking. Offensively, Curry won’t be breaking any ankles. He’s more of a shooter than a traditional drive-and-dish point guard. Sometimes, that can lead to a lot of standing around.

Outlook: This brand of Warriors is fairly new, and is destined to need time to get acquainted. The result could be a slow start. They also seem primed to take the thrill ride that relying heavily on outside shooting typically offers. But with good health, improved defense and steady play from the frontcourt, a run to the postseason wouldn’t be inconceivable.

Prediction: 38-44.

2012-13 schedule: Link

FOX Sports: Warriors home

Follow Sam Amico on Twitter @SamAmicoFSO


https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/ ... on-preview

3 in Pacific Golden State Warriors

Last season, once again, the Golden State Warriors were the most fun bad team in basketball. The Warriors played their heavy-offense/little-defense/erratic-fundamentals game for most of the season, although they were less fun when they traded away the endearingly frustrating Monta Ellis towards the end of the season. In return for Ellis, the Warriors received Andrew Bogut, who may or may not be healed in time for the Mayan Apocalypse, and they still have Stephen Curry likewise. In a best-case scenario health-wise, they will just barely miss the playoffs, but they will miss them in a really fun manner. Like always.

They also have Klay Thompson, who recently was the first-place vote getter in a GM survey about which player was most likely to have a breakout season. I sorta think those dudes know what they're talking about. It's obvious by now that these previews are a tad bit "glass half-full" aren't they?


https://www.theroar.com.au/2012/10/18/2 ... n-preview/

Not predicted in the top 2 of the Pacific, so no mention of them.


https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/10/31 ... edictions/

Does not predict the Warriors to make the playoffs, but has the Suns as the #8 seed...silly guy.


https://www.ocregister.com/2012/10/30/n ... n-preview/
https://www.ocregister.com/2012/10/29/n ... -a-glance/

11. GOLDEN STATE WARRIORS

2011-12 record: 23-43

Coach: Mark Jackson, 2nd season with Golden State (23-43), 2nd overall (23-43)

Key Additions: F Harrison Barnes (Draft), G Jarrett Jack (Trade from New Orleans), F Carl Landry (FA from New Orleans)

Key Subtractions: F Dorrell Wright (Trade to Philadelphia), C Kwame Brown (FA to Philadelphia), G Nate Robinson (FA to Chicago)

Outlook: The Warriors made their big roster move at the trade deadline last season, acquiring Andrew Bogut from Milwaukee for big-time scorer Monta Ellis. Bogut still is recovering from a fractured foot, and his health remains a major question mark.

Top Players:

C Andrew Bogut

F Harrison Barnes

F David Lee

G/F Richard Jefferson

G Stephen Curry

G Klay Thompson


https://tsminteractive.com/2012-13-nba-season-preview/

Andrew Bogut and David Lee lead the Golden State Warriors, who will need Brandon Rush or Stephen Curry to elevate their games if they want to avoid the lottery.

[Split T]

Offseason report card:

Phoenix Suns: C

Notable Additions: Aron Baynes; Cameron Johnson; Cheick Diallo; Dario Saric; Frank Kaminsky; Jared Harper; Jalen Lecque; Jevon Carter; Ricky Rubio; Ty Jerome

Notable Exits: De'Anthony Melton; Dragan Bender; Jamal Crawford; Jimmer Fredette; Josh Jackson; Kyle Korver; Ray Spalding; Richaun Holmes; TJ Warren; Troy Daniels

Notable Re-signings: Kelly Oubre Jr.

Phoenix is having two different offseasons depending on who you ask.

Offseason A: The Suns are better! They finally have a point guard who can alleviate Devin Booker's on-ball workload! And more than 1.5 above-average shooters! The Kelly Oubre Jr. deal (two-year, $30 million) is a win for both sides!

Did you know that Dario Saric does more than knock down standalone jumpers?!?! That he dribbles and can pull up and passes more than TJ Warren and everything?!?! Aron Baynes is going to give Deandre Ayton a mean streak! Ty Jerome would've been the Suns' best point guard last season! And they did all of this without overspending or surrendering anything or anyone more valuable than Milwaukee's 2020 first-round pick (top-seven protection)!

Offseason B: Er, did the Suns really cough up too many assets, mismanage their cap and overpay Ricky Rubio just to belch out another sub-25-win season? Why would they opt for the older-than-Devin Cameron Johnson and about-to-get paid Saric over Jarrett Culver?

Did they actually need to give up an asset (No. 32) to get off Warren? Is it possible they should've whipped out a calculator so they didn't have to use De'Anthony Melton and two second-rounders to clear off Josh Jackson and open the space necessary to overpay Rubio and carry Oubre's cap hold?

Both versions of the Suns' offseason have their merits. Others will be harsher in their assessments.

Failing Phoenix because its summer didn't fit the idealistic mold is unfair. The Josh Jackson dump is the only move impossibly hard to defend, and it doesn't break the Suns' future.

They are a better team than they were last year, and it isn't close. They pass—not with flying colors, but they pass all the same.

this is a pretty fair assessment.

Are the better? Well, it would be a historic achievement if they finished consecutive seasons below 20 wins. Did they do a good job of managing their current and future assets? Of course not. It's like the Facts of Life theme song.

Ya, pretty good write up. The only thing I disagree about is the Josh Jackson stuff. Of all the asset mismanagement that we did this off season, that was the one I cared least about. We essentially gave up a future 2nd to get rid of him. I like Melton better than Carter, but they’re still both defensive minded pg’s with poor offensive skills. Pretty similar. One 2nd only transfers of we pick 31-35. I’d guess that won’t happen.

So we could have stretched Jackson and spent 2.3 million a year for 3 years, we chose to send a 2nd rounder to save 3.5 million this year and have no future costs. 3.5 million is more than the going rate for a high second round pick, so we could literally buy that pick back if we want.

So we downgraded from Melton to Carter and have a small chance of losing an additional 2nd rounder. I’m cool with that to move on from Jackson. Giving up 32 to move Warren is worse to me. So is taking Cam at 11. The miscalculation in value is bigger in those situations.

[Indy]

Offseason report card:

Phoenix Suns: C

Notable Additions: Aron Baynes; Cameron Johnson; Cheick Diallo; Dario Saric; Frank Kaminsky; Jared Harper; Jalen Lecque; Jevon Carter; Ricky Rubio; Ty Jerome

Notable Exits: De'Anthony Melton; Dragan Bender; Jamal Crawford; Jimmer Fredette; Josh Jackson; Kyle Korver; Ray Spalding; Richaun Holmes; TJ Warren; Troy Daniels

Notable Re-signings: Kelly Oubre Jr.

Phoenix is having two different offseasons depending on who you ask.

Offseason A: The Suns are better! They finally have a point guard who can alleviate Devin Booker's on-ball workload! And more than 1.5 above-average shooters! The Kelly Oubre Jr. deal (two-year, $30 million) is a win for both sides!

Did you know that Dario Saric does more than knock down standalone jumpers?!?! That he dribbles and can pull up and passes more than TJ Warren and everything?!?! Aron Baynes is going to give Deandre Ayton a mean streak! Ty Jerome would've been the Suns' best point guard last season! And they did all of this without overspending or surrendering anything or anyone more valuable than Milwaukee's 2020 first-round pick (top-seven protection)!

Offseason B: Er, did the Suns really cough up too many assets, mismanage their cap and overpay Ricky Rubio just to belch out another sub-25-win season? Why would they opt for the older-than-Devin Cameron Johnson and about-to-get paid Saric over Jarrett Culver?

Did they actually need to give up an asset (No. 32) to get off Warren? Is it possible they should've whipped out a calculator so they didn't have to use De'Anthony Melton and two second-rounders to clear off Josh Jackson and open the space necessary to overpay Rubio and carry Oubre's cap hold?

Both versions of the Suns' offseason have their merits. Others will be harsher in their assessments.

Failing Phoenix because its summer didn't fit the idealistic mold is unfair. The Josh Jackson dump is the only move impossibly hard to defend, and it doesn't break the Suns' future.

They are a better team than they were last year, and it isn't close. They pass—not with flying colors, but they pass all the same.

this is a pretty fair assessment.

Are the better? Well, it would be a historic achievement if they finished consecutive seasons below 20 wins. Did they do a good job of managing their current and future assets? Of course not. It's like the Facts of Life theme song.

Ya, pretty good write up. The only thing I disagree about is the Josh Jackson stuff. Of all the asset mismanagement that we did this off season, that was the one I cared least about. We essentially gave up a future 2nd to get rid of him. I like Melton better than Carter, but they’re still both defensive minded pg’s with poor offensive skills. Pretty similar. One 2nd only transfers of we pick 31-35. I’d guess that won’t happen.

So we could have stretched Jackson and spent 2.3 million a year for 3 years, we chose to send a 2nd rounder to save 3.5 million this year and have no future costs. 3.5 million is more than the going rate for a high second round pick, so we could literally buy that pick back if we want.

So we downgraded from Melton to Carter and have a small chance of losing an additional 2nd rounder. I’m cool with that to move on from Jackson. Giving up 32 to move Warren is worse to me. So is taking Cam at 11. The miscalculation in value is bigger in those situations.

All 3 are pretty shitty moves from a value perspective. Maybe not as bad as taking Dragan @ #4, or trading future assets to also take Chriss at 8 the same draft. But pretty bad.

[Aztec Sunsfan]

My toughts exactly. Balanced take, but dumping Jackson was perhaps the only transaction close to market rates.

[virtual9mm]

Stumbled upon this blast from the past...just 10 years ago, the Suns were perceived as having a "brain trust" and Amare was #2 in trade value to Tim Duncan. This was right before the beginning of the end.

https://grantland.com/features/sports-g ... alue-2005/

[3rdside]

My toughts exactly. Balanced take, but dumping Jackson was perhaps the only transaction close to market rates.

I don't get the Warren dislike so much - yet, anyway - he hasn't played close to a full season ever, he really didn't fit the direction this team was going with his black hole tendencies and other teams made trades similar or worse than us suggesting a cap space premium.

If he plays a full season and maintains his 3pt% then we lost out, but sacrificing guys who don't fit a team's direction is par for the course. And that, to me, was the FO's approach going into the off season - they didn't need warren and they did need cap space flexibility for contingency planning, so he *had* to go, hence the apparent one sided nature of this trade.

[Aztec Sunsfan]

My toughts exactly. Balanced take, but dumping Jackson was perhaps the only transaction close to market rates.

I don't get the Warren dislike so much - yet, anyway - he hasn't played close to a full season ever, he really didn't fit the direction this team was going with his black hole tendencies and other teams made trades similar or worse than us suggesting a cap space premium.

If he plays a full season and maintains his 3pt% then we lost out, but sacrificing guys who don't fit a team's direction is par for the course. And that, to me, was the FO's approach going into the off season - they didn't need warren and they did need cap space flexibility for contingency planning, so he *had* to go, hence the apparent one sided nature of this trade.

I think that Warren was one of the main victims of our PG-less teams, the guy is really good at cutting and finding backdoors positioning, and needed just a little bit of advantage from the passer to take a and convert almost any kind of shot. Rubio would have done wonders with him. Year in an year out, he kept producing without no one looking out for him. No wonder he passed so little, besides not being his forte, he also knew the ball was not coming back.

I actually liked the guy, but the multiple and misterious health issues make him undependable, as well as Bridges and Oubre emerging, so I wonder the FO decided it was time to let go. But paying for it it? Perhaps the timing wasn’t right, but he was on a great contract and not a perceived cancer, so giving away the 32 felt like desperation, not like a meditated move. I don’t care as much if he does well away, I actually wish him well, my main metric will be is Saric and Rubio make it worthy. In that case, by december no one will be talking about him and 32th.

[SDC]

how was he a victim? he created his own shot easily and efficiently

[SDC]

https://www.nba.com/suns/features/cam-j ... raft-class

his free throw shooting is pedestrian though.

[3rdside]

Keep in mind I'm a Suns apologist so my ability to be impartial is compromised, but breaking it down a bit further:

1. TJ's last season shooting % is really good but general jumps in shooting % across the NBA aren't particularly unusual - there's a good chance his improved % remains, in other words (but hopefully not his 0.428 3pt%, which is a disaster for us if it does).

2. Using BballRef:

"For combined seasons, played in the NBA/BAA, in the regular season, from 1946-47 to 2018-19, from 1st to 5th season, requiring Games <= 300 and Points Per Game >= 12.00"

Using this as a proxy for "good players who were injury prone"...returned questionable results so I've emailed BballRef for clarity.

But assuming most of the data is correct, TJ Warren is and will almost certainly continue to be injury prone, so his value as a player needs to be considered in view of this.

And if he closes his seasons on the injury list, like he's done 3 out of 5 times with us, he's no good to Indiana in the Playoffs.

[3rdside]

Of course it's totally plausible TJ mailed it in the end of last season so he could address his ongoing injury problems at a deeper level, so 3 out of 5 seasons becomes only 2 out of 5 (60% to 40% probability), and if he's fixed his problems and he stays hot...