Phx-Suns.Net

Ring_Wanted wrote: ↑

Sun May 20, 2018 2:37 pm

You guys should have watched the Euroleague final game. Doncic has showed a lot of good things but he is not the total package some people are thinking about...

Yikes, your whole post is based on just one game?

Superbone wrote: ↑

Sun May 20, 2018 2:56 pm

I just have to trust McDonough and crew that they come to the best choice possible for the Suns on June 21st.

Split T wrote: ↑

Mon May 21, 2018 1:14 pm

I like Khyri better than holiday. Khyri looks like an elite defender that can shoot. Holiday is a better bet to be a creator off the dribble, but I don't think either will be great off the dribble.

Holiday is really good off the dribble.

Khyri has a great shot, defends, is athletic, but he isn't a point guard. Khyri would be great in concert with picking Doncic. But if you go with Ayton, I think you have to go with a real point guard with the other pick, if you intend to address the point guard position with the other pick.

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Mon May 21, 2018 10:36 pm

Ring_Wanted wrote: ↑

Sun May 20, 2018 2:37 pm

You guys should have watched the Euroleague final game. Doncic has showed a lot of good things but he is not the total package some people are thinking about...

Yikes, your whole post is based on just one game?

Nah. No way. I've watched him many times (you know, being from Spain and a fan of Ream Madrid) and there's no denying that the things he has done at his age are unheard of in Europe since Petrovic. But the EL final is a significant example given the stakes if one looks at more than numbers. You see people throwing around names like Harden, Bird or Manu... Granted, Ayton is probably not going to be Robinson, Ewing or Hakeem, but in his case, the athleticism is obviously there and he doesn't lack skill either. Are his alleged mental blocks true? Does he have the desire to become trascendent? Luka certainly does, but he also comes with legitimate shortcomings as a prospect if you are expecting NBA superstardom from your #1 pick.

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Mon May 21, 2018 10:37 pm

Superbone wrote: ↑

Sun May 20, 2018 2:56 pm

I just have to trust McDonough and crew that they come to the best choice possible for the Suns on June 21st.

It's funny because it's true. Hey, even you said you were encouraged by what McD said at the combine. I'll tell you right now that I'm not looking forward to draft day and seeing your big red F.

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Mon May 21, 2018 10:41 pm

Split T wrote: ↑

Mon May 21, 2018 1:14 pm

I like Khyri better than holiday. Khyri looks like an elite defender that can shoot. Holiday is a better bet to be a creator off the dribble, but I don't think either will be great off the dribble.

Holiday is really good off the dribble.

Khyri has a great shot, defends, is athletic, but he isn't a point guard. Khyri would be great in concert with picking Doncic. But if you go with Ayton, I think you have to go with a real point guard with the other pick, if you intend to address the point guard position with the other pick.

What real PGs do you think will be available at 16?

Superbone wrote: ↑

Tue May 22, 2018 1:02 am

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Mon May 21, 2018 10:41 pm

Split T wrote: ↑

Mon May 21, 2018 1:14 pm

I like Khyri better than holiday. Khyri looks like an elite defender that can shoot. Holiday is a better bet to be a creator off the dribble, but I don't think either will be great off the dribble.

Holiday is really good off the dribble.

Khyri has a great shot, defends, is athletic, but he isn't a point guard. Khyri would be great in concert with picking Doncic. But if you go with Ayton, I think you have to go with a real point guard with the other pick, if you intend to address the point guard position with the other pick.

What real PGs do you think will be available at 16?

So look back at that draft. Have any of the players we took fulfilled their promise/done what Ryan suggested? We are two full seasons into their careers. Even the once-loved Ulis has fallen out of favor. None of those prospects turned out (so far), but look how well Bogdan is doing.

Indy wrote: ↑

Tue May 22, 2018 6:11 am

Superbone wrote: ↑

Tue May 22, 2018 1:02 am

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Mon May 21, 2018 10:41 pm

Split T wrote: ↑

Mon May 21, 2018 1:14 pm

I like Khyri better than holiday. Khyri looks like an elite defender that can shoot. Holiday is a better bet to be a creator off the dribble, but I don't think either will be great off the dribble.

Holiday is really good off the dribble.

Khyri has a great shot, defends, is athletic, but he isn't a point guard. Khyri would be great in concert with picking Doncic. But if you go with Ayton, I think you have to go with a real point guard with the other pick, if you intend to address the point guard position with the other pick.

What real PGs do you think will be available at 16?

So look back at that draft. Have any of the players we took fulfilled their promise/done what Ryan suggested? We are two full seasons into their careers. Even the once-loved Ulis has fallen out of favor. None of those prospects turned out (so far), but look how well Bogdan is doing.

Isn't the draft ultimately a crapshoot--especially if you put a premium on potential, rather than past performance? Both Bender and Chriss were known to be unfinished products, whereas we owned the rights to Bogdan for roughly 15 years before he came over.

I keep settling on Ayton. It would be nice just to fill a need for once and not have to sit through another season of roster imbalance. Folks keep saying wing depth is key but I imagine someone gets pissy if they aren't getting enough minutes. If you can't play Luka at pf or Pg a ton then this is an issue. We alreasy have a potential issue with tj expecting to start and the emergence of Jackson.

A bunch of media like Evan Sidery keep going on about wings - the league is trending that way etc but fails to point out that most successful tems in that position have all NBA talent at those positions. What's the point in being a diet GS Warriors. We would just be like the nuggets and warriors were to us back in the. Ssol hey day.

There are a bunch of young bigs coming In the league like Davis embiid etc. Many of them have been on imbalanced teams (Davis ) or young teams. I worry that when one of them breaks through to a conference final then the media may change the narrative. For those who say traditional bigs won't succeed as a counter to what I'm saying, the elite ones these days can play inside and out.
A big part of me hopes we turn the #1 into KAT

I guess I keep hoping that Ayton hits his ceiling and is a player that won't shoot the 3 quite as well as KAT, but still be a legitimate threat. The defensive concerns at Arizona were just a scheme and coaching issue. That he punishes opposing teams inside, getting their guys into foul trouble and hitting freethrows. He sets hard screens on PNR and enjoys resetting the same screen over and over just to hit guards again and again like some sadistic a-hole that likes to see his opponents bleed. He uses his body and 260+ lbs without slamming his arms down in a way that he gets a dirty tech, but makes them feel it every now and then for driving to the hole. He makes them pay when they double and he opens up the perimeter shooters as teams are hyper aware of him in the post. Can pop out and hit all the way out to the 3 pt line, or take the defender off the dribble to throw it down and destroy the rim. On defense, he can switch 1-5 smoothly and even hold his own on the perimeter and shut down the opposing big on the inside. If he's pulled out by the opposing big off the ball, he can recover and protect the rim. In essence, he intimidates and scares opposing players with his shear physicality and athleticism. Like a 7'1" LeBron in the post.

Chances of ALL that coming to fruition, imo..."So you're saying there's a chance!"

Hoping for Doncic's ceiling is a guy that gets back to P3 and alleviates all concerns about his athleticism and learns how to take care of his body. He is able to switch on players 1-4 and uses his intelligence to hinder 5s if he is forced to switch on to them. He becomes a much better shooter in the NBA and brings that "FU, I refuse to lose" chip on the shoulder type attitude to every workout, every practice, and every game. This attitude just filters down and infects every player on the team. His BBallIQ is also contagious and passing for the best shot becomes the mantra. Going all out, grabbing rebounds and sprinting the floor becomes a joy to the rest of the team. The confidence of getting a perfect pass to a shooters pocket in stride creates a rhythm to become one of the best shooting team in the NBA. He plays perfectly off of Booker and Jackson elevating their game as they do the same for him. He draws so much pressure that Booker forgets that the opposition hasn't even dared to double him. He plays perfectly off of both Booker and Jackson making the game a pure joy, while talking mad trash in multiple languages with a smile on his face that makes his team laugh and infuriates opposing players to lose their composure. He miraculously pushes Bender and Chriss to find their potential ceilings, turns Warren and Knight into great 3 pt shooters and All-Stars along with everyone else that he plays with, like Nash did.

Indy wrote: ↑

Tue May 22, 2018 6:11 am

Superbone wrote: ↑

Tue May 22, 2018 1:02 am

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Mon May 21, 2018 10:41 pm

Split T wrote: ↑

Mon May 21, 2018 1:14 pm

I like Khyri better than holiday. Khyri looks like an elite defender that can shoot. Holiday is a better bet to be a creator off the dribble, but I don't think either will be great off the dribble.

Holiday is really good off the dribble.

Khyri has a great shot, defends, is athletic, but he isn't a point guard. Khyri would be great in concert with picking Doncic. But if you go with Ayton, I think you have to go with a real point guard with the other pick, if you intend to address the point guard position with the other pick.

What real PGs do you think will be available at 16?

So look back at that draft. Have any of the players we took fulfilled their promise/done what Ryan suggested? We are two full seasons into their careers. Even the once-loved Ulis has fallen out of favor. None of those prospects turned out (so far), but look how well Bogdan is doing.

Huh? You lost me. Look back at what draft? We're talking about the upcoming draft next month.

Superbone wrote: ↑

Tue May 22, 2018 8:42 am

Indy wrote: ↑

Tue May 22, 2018 6:11 am

Superbone wrote: ↑

Tue May 22, 2018 1:02 am

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Mon May 21, 2018 10:41 pm

Split T wrote: ↑

Mon May 21, 2018 1:14 pm

I like Khyri better than holiday. Khyri looks like an elite defender that can shoot. Holiday is a better bet to be a creator off the dribble, but I don't think either will be great off the dribble.

Holiday is really good off the dribble.

Khyri has a great shot, defends, is athletic, but he isn't a point guard. Khyri would be great in concert with picking Doncic. But if you go with Ayton, I think you have to go with a real point guard with the other pick, if you intend to address the point guard position with the other pick.

What real PGs do you think will be available at 16?

So look back at that draft. Have any of the players we took fulfilled their promise/done what Ryan suggested? We are two full seasons into their careers. Even the once-loved Ulis has fallen out of favor. None of those prospects turned out (so far), but look how well Bogdan is doing.

Huh? You lost me. Look back at what draft? We're talking about the upcoming draft next month.

The draft he gave a big red F to and everyone said what an idiot he was.

Those are big hopes, In2, but that about sums up the two camps.

I'm on record as a Doncic guy, but it's just about which hope I think is more likely. He just has to keep getting better at things he is already doing very well. Ayton has to do some things I haven't seen from him. Of course, he has the body to play almost any way he wants.

Truth be told, I don't think either ends up as the best player in the draft. I don't know who the best is going to be, but in a draft with this much talent, and this many questions about the top prospects, I think it's very likely that someone else turns out to have that transcendent combo of athleticism and skill.

Indy wrote: ↑

Tue May 22, 2018 8:56 am

Superbone wrote: ↑

Tue May 22, 2018 8:42 am

Indy wrote: ↑

Tue May 22, 2018 6:11 am

Superbone wrote: ↑

Tue May 22, 2018 1:02 am

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Mon May 21, 2018 10:41 pm

Holiday is really good off the dribble.

Khyri has a great shot, defends, is athletic, but he isn't a point guard. Khyri would be great in concert with picking Doncic. But if you go with Ayton, I think you have to go with a real point guard with the other pick, if you intend to address the point guard position with the other pick.

What real PGs do you think will be available at 16?

So look back at that draft. Have any of the players we took fulfilled their promise/done what Ryan suggested? We are two full seasons into their careers. Even the once-loved Ulis has fallen out of favor. None of those prospects turned out (so far), but look how well Bogdan is doing.

Huh? You lost me. Look back at what draft? We're talking about the upcoming draft next month.

The draft he gave a big red F to and everyone said what an idiot he was.

I think you are responding to something different that what you quoted.

Indy wrote: ↑

Tue May 22, 2018 8:56 am

Superbone wrote: ↑

Tue May 22, 2018 8:42 am

Indy wrote: ↑

Tue May 22, 2018 6:11 am

Superbone wrote: ↑

Tue May 22, 2018 1:02 am

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Mon May 21, 2018 10:41 pm

Holiday is really good off the dribble.

Khyri has a great shot, defends, is athletic, but he isn't a point guard. Khyri would be great in concert with picking Doncic. But if you go with Ayton, I think you have to go with a real point guard with the other pick, if you intend to address the point guard position with the other pick.

What real PGs do you think will be available at 16?

So look back at that draft. Have any of the players we took fulfilled their promise/done what Ryan suggested? We are two full seasons into their careers. Even the once-loved Ulis has fallen out of favor. None of those prospects turned out (so far), but look how well Bogdan is doing.

Huh? You lost me. Look back at what draft? We're talking about the upcoming draft next month.

The draft he gave a big red F to and everyone said what an idiot he was.

Ah, you quoted the wrong post then. And for the record, I don't recall anybody calling him an idiot.

Superbone wrote: ↑

Tue May 22, 2018 9:08 am

Indy wrote: ↑

Tue May 22, 2018 8:56 am

Superbone wrote: ↑

Tue May 22, 2018 8:42 am

Indy wrote: ↑

Tue May 22, 2018 6:11 am

Superbone wrote: ↑

Tue May 22, 2018 1:02 am

What real PGs do you think will be available at 16?

So look back at that draft. Have any of the players we took fulfilled their promise/done what Ryan suggested? We are two full seasons into their careers. Even the once-loved Ulis has fallen out of favor. None of those prospects turned out (so far), but look how well Bogdan is doing.

Huh? You lost me. Look back at what draft? We're talking about the upcoming draft next month.

The draft he gave a big red F to and everyone said what an idiot he was.

Ah, you quoted the wrong post then. And for the record, I don't recall anybody calling him an idiot.

It might have been implied.

https://twitter.com/Mike_Schmitz/status/998958162907574272

I too think that during the euroleague final-four Doncic was really out of shape and this ultimately affected his play. Hence the question regarding his athleticism arouse. Once he gets the right stamina, muscle-fat ratio, etc. we will see a more nimble version of him.

I totally quoted the wrong post! I will blame it on the new look of the board.

And I am not going to take the time to search for "idiot" in responses to INF, but it was totally implied. Everyone was saying what a great draft it was. I am thinking a B- was the lowest anyone was willing to give it outside of INF. But looking back, even only 2 years later, how many other players would help us instead of Bender and what we traded to get Chriss?

Superbone wrote: ↑

Tue May 22, 2018 1:01 am

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Mon May 21, 2018 10:37 pm

Superbone wrote: ↑

Sun May 20, 2018 2:56 pm

I just have to trust McDonough and crew that they come to the best choice possible for the Suns on June 21st.

It's funny because it's true. Hey, even you said you were encouraged by what McD said at the combine. I'll tell you right now that I'm not looking forward to draft day and seeing your big red F.

This is the one I meant to quote.