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I’ve been pretty mixed on Vogel this season and this big reason why. Just no improvement. For every 2-3 game stretch we start look like we’re turning the corner on these problems, it comes back looks like basketball hell.The Bobster wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 10:43 pm20 turnovers.
That's been a problem all year that's going to have to be addressed.
Suns quickly tied it up in the 2nd half and even went ahead and then played even the rest of the way. That’s not quitting.Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 10:45 pmI didn't see any quit in the second half.
Stupid mistakes, but not quit.
It does matter. We gave them 20 more shots in this game. It’s 48 minutes, you can’t be asleep for half of it and expect to win.Superbone wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 10:45 pmDude, first half doesn’t matter when it’s tight at the end. You don’t get penalized. The score is what it is. You officiate it correctly and play it out. Why even play the 2nd half then?Wally_West wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 10:43 pmNot a fan of the fix is in narrative in this thread. I get the refs were bad but did anyone watch the 1st half?
Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 10:45 pmI didn't see any quit in the second half.
Stupid mistakes, but not quit.
Both things can be true…we cost ourselves a lot with the turnovers and offensive boards…but that was a blatant mess-up by the refs…like inexcusable bad…it wasn’t even borderline. The ball was loose for awhile.Wally_West wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 10:49 pmIt does matter. We gave them 20 more shots in this game. It’s 48 minutes, you can’t be asleep for half of it and expect to win.Superbone wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 10:45 pmDude, first half doesn’t matter when it’s tight at the end. You don’t get penalized. The score is what it is. You officiate it correctly and play it out. Why even play the 2nd half then?Wally_West wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 10:43 pmNot a fan of the fix is in narrative in this thread. I get the refs were bad but did anyone watch the 1st half?
I agree. Why play the second half then if that's the case? Saying that is saying they are not permitted to overcome mistakes. They got the defensive stop they needed. Allen had the ball and could have gone in for a layup to tie it. But the phantom time out happens and it's a different scenario.Wally_West wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 10:49 pmIt does matter. We gave them 20 more shots in this game. It’s 48 minutes, you can’t be asleep for half of it and expect to win.Superbone wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 10:45 pmDude, first half doesn’t matter when it’s tight at the end. You don’t get penalized. The score is what it is. You officiate it correctly and play it out. Why even play the 2nd half then?Wally_West wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 10:43 pmNot a fan of the fix is in narrative in this thread. I get the refs were bad but did anyone watch the 1st half?
It is a bad call. I’m not disagreeing but it’s not the first thing I’m going to point to on why we lost. These self inflicted mistakes keep piling up, it hard for me to get too worked up on terrible call when we put ourselves in this position on the first place.Split T wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 10:54 pmBoth things can be true…we cost ourselves a lot with the turnovers and offensive boards…but that was a blatant mess-up by the refs…like inexcusable bad…it wasn’t even borderline. The ball was loose for awhile.Wally_West wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 10:49 pmIt does matter. We gave them 20 more shots in this game. It’s 48 minutes, you can’t be asleep for half of it and expect to win.Superbone wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 10:45 pmDude, first half doesn’t matter when it’s tight at the end. You don’t get penalized. The score is what it is. You officiate it correctly and play it out. Why even play the 2nd half then?Wally_West wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 10:43 pmNot a fan of the fix is in narrative in this thread. I get the refs were bad but did anyone watch the 1st half?
The foul calls can be quibbled over, but that timeout was blatantly bad. Discipline worthy for the ref in my opinion.
Fair…I think everyone is pointing to those things too. Like I said…there’s not a limit on what you can point to. We can point to bothWally_West wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 11:04 pmIt is a bad call. I’m not disagreeing but it’s not the first thing I’m going to point to on why we lost. These self inflicted mistakes keep piling up, it hard for me to get too worked up on terrible call when we put ourselves in this position on the first place.Split T wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 10:54 pmBoth things can be true…we cost ourselves a lot with the turnovers and offensive boards…but that was a blatant mess-up by the refs…like inexcusable bad…it wasn’t even borderline. The ball was loose for awhile.Wally_West wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 10:49 pmIt does matter. We gave them 20 more shots in this game. It’s 48 minutes, you can’t be asleep for half of it and expect to win.Superbone wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 10:45 pmDude, first half doesn’t matter when it’s tight at the end. You don’t get penalized. The score is what it is. You officiate it correctly and play it out. Why even play the 2nd half then?Wally_West wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 10:43 pmNot a fan of the fix is in narrative in this thread. I get the refs were bad but did anyone watch the 1st half?
The foul calls can be quibbled over, but that timeout was blatantly bad. Discipline worthy for the ref in my opinion.