Who would you pick if we (OGW-willing) landed #1?

[Ring_Wanted]

So that sounds like they are picking Ayton and Gambo is just selling the fans on him before he is drafted on behalf of the Suns.

If its a PR move, why not wait until closer to the actual draft. Most fans will have forgotten about this by then.

Because Doncic is getting an insane amount of hype. Most that any other international prospect ever.

This draft has only two guys in real contention for #1 and I don't find hard to believe at all that an organization has his mind made up at the time of the lotto, after a whole year of scourting. I'd obviously do my due diligence with Doncic and other prospects (and would even explore a bluff with SAC for their #2+ if they want to dance), but what is Doncic going to show you in workouts or interviews that we don't know already, with all the exposure he's gotten in the ACB and Euroleague plus the insight from Kokoskov? Even Booker and Jackson have showed their desire to play with Ayton.

[Split T]

People may call me crazy but I think a lot of what we can get out of Doncic we can get out of Tyreke Evans.

You're crazy. Evans has had a few quality years in his 8 year NBA career and has not been able to stay healthy the last THREE years. I'm not passing on Doncic to place my hopes in Tyreke Evans.

You're right, his health is a big issue but if he can stay healthy, his play on the court has become really good. He was a 19/5/5 guy last year and shot 40% from 3.

I don't think Tyreke is better than Doncic, I'd definitely take Doncic over him but I think Ayton/Tyreke is better than say Doncic/Dedmon.

[Mori Chu]

I think it is going to be very hard for a post up center to make a team match up with him. I think any NBA team would love for a center to set up in the post, hold the ball, back his way down, and shoot 8-12 feet jumpers all game long. That means the team isn't moving the ball and isn't making a bunch of threes. Then, on the other end, the opponent will move the ball so well, have so much speed and athleticism on the floor, that it makes the big man a liability unless he is a defensive dynamo.

I think this comment is spot on. Ayton says he wants to play from the inside out. Well, great. That's not how you play winning basketball any more. As INF says, that style reduces ball movement and focuses on mid-range-ish 2-point shots when the other team is getting layups and 3s. And then on the other end, Ayton is either mediocre or bad depending on which scout you ask; he certainly is not a plus defender, and you really want your big man to be a great defender if you are going to play a somewhat "traditional" big. Capela is a great example. If Capela were a bit better at posting up but were not a good defender, would he be getting minutes in this Houston/GSW series?

I don't know how people are saying Ayton is a "can't miss" prospect. He absolutely can miss. He might end up being a rich man's Al Jefferson, a guy who can make buckets and score 18-20+ ppg but ultimately is not helpful for your offense, and who doesn't do his share on D, and therefore is not enough of a net positive.

And then you have Doncic, who arguably already has shown that he is a "did not miss" prospect. He is playing, as a pro, and he is dominating! And he is 19 years old. People think he won't get any better? Low ceiling? He. is. 19. He plays the game exactly the way the game is going, and he gives us exactly what we need. Ball movement, push the pace, good shooter, solid defender. Perfect to run our offense and be a gigantic PG that teams will hate matching up with. A starting lineup with Doncic-Booker-Jackson as our 1-2-3 will be a nightmare for the opposing team. Find a 3-and-D PF (hopefully Bender) and a D-and-rebounding center (maybe sign Capela as FA or trade for DeAndre Jordan) and that's a mean starting lineup.

As another way of thinking about it: If you could add one of the following players to this team, which one do you take? Entire-career Steve Nash, or entire-career Amare Stoudemire? As awesome as Amare was, you go Nash 10 times out of 10. The 2006 team showed that what really made us special was our ball movement, passing, 3-point shooting, and having a good mix of guys around Nash as the leader. That 2006 team on steroids is what we can be if we draft Doncic. He is not quite the same type of player as Nash (nor is Ayton quite like Amare), but having a great PG is every bit as important in 2018-19's NBA as a dominant big man.

[Mori Chu]

The evidence is happening right in front of our eyes. Look at this playoffs. No team left has anything approaching a traditional "dominant" big man. None of these teams play inside-out or like to post up. The nerds and stat-heads have figured out that is not the way to win. All of the teams left have amazing guard/swing play and 2-3 big stars who can shoot, pass, and defend.

Warriors:
Curry - excellent shooter, good passer, average defender
Durant - excellent shooter, ok passer, good defender
Thompson - excellent shooter, average passer, good defender
Green - ok shooter, good passer, good defender
(just a sick top-4)
(no dominant traditional big; KD is a 7'0 SF)

Rockets:
Paul - good shooter, excellent passer, good defender
Harden - great shooter, great passer, poor defender
Capela - ok shooter, ok passer, great defender
(role-playing defensive big)

Celtics:
Kyrie - great shooter, good passer, mediocre defender
Horford - good shooter, good passer, great defender
Tatum - good shooter, good passer, ok defender
Brown - mediocre shooter, good passer, great defender
(no traditional big man)

Cavs:
Lebron - good shooter, great passer, great defender
Love - good shooter, good passer, mediocre defender
Thompson(?) - poor shooter, ok passer, good defender
Smith(?) - good shooter, bad passer, bad defender
Korver(?) - great shooter, ok passer, bad defender
(god what a drop-off after the top 2)
(never should have traded Kyrie)

None of these teams play traditional bigs. And they're the best teams in the league. It should tell you something.

[Ring_Wanted]

At some point, the other team needs to worry about not allowing one easy bucket under the basket after another.

If you try to defend Ayton with a PF, you should get punished hard, especially since you also have to pay attention to this Devin Booker guy we have. If Ayton imposes his will, the other team will have to put more size on the court.

What you really need is a defensive system that guards the 3pt line, but that's a must regardless of who you pick and actually becomes harder to achieve if you have Doncic and Booker together.

If you go with Ayton, your work is cut for you: go add a 3D point guard and a 3D PF.

[Ring_Wanted]

The evidence is happening right in front of our eyes. Look at this playoffs. No team left has anything approaching a traditional "dominant" big man.

Hate this argument. The Warriors' only weak point is precisely not having anything inside, but like with everything else, freaking KD mitigates it a ton. Boston suffers this too, but Horford has been inmense. Now imagine the destruction LeBron or Harden would cause with Ayton on their team, or a pair of Horford (outside) and Ayton plus the C's depth. Or KD-Ayton. Or Curry-Ayton. How do you guard that?

If you add Ayton, the key is to have shooters and defenders on your roster and to focus on not allowing easy 3pts. Also, Ayton runs the fastbreak and I believe he will develop a respectable 3pt shot.

[The Bobster]

The secret is having really, really good players that fit together well.

[In2ition]

There isn't any great teams with a center now because there wasn't a great center for a whole generation, imo. They had fatal flaws. Who is the best 30ish center? Chandler? Jordan? Howard? Whiteside? Gasol? Gortat?

The good ones are all 25ish and under, imo. (AD, Jokic, KAT, Capela, Adams, Gobert & Embiid) I felt the Suns had the worst frontcourt situation in the NBA last year. Constantly got beat by opposing centers or really big pfs(Aldridge, Love, Cousins)

The best teams either had great guard play, but poor inside game or good inside game although young and poor guard play. I can't think of any teams at the moment that had a very good center, but were trash, besides Memphis.

[In2ition]

That being said, the other gaping hole on a team with multiple holes was ability to space the floor and ball movement. It wasn't pleasing to the eyes how this team played. Several factors attributed to it, including youth, bad mismatched personal, no offensive system and coaching stability, but also no real pg that could pass and was a threat to shoot. Payton and Ulis could pass, but were no real threat to shoot. Ulis was easily bullied on the other end too. It didn't help that almost no one outside of Booker could consistently shoot at the 3pt line. Doncic fixes many of these issues with his unreal feel for the game, size for his position, and skills shooting and creating for others. I think he will make everyone better around him.

The Suns accomplished 2 things so far. They picked what I think is going to be a very good coach who instills a system that works with the personal, that will use movement with the ball and off the ball. The other thing they accomplished was out of their control and that was winning the lottery. At least a frontcourt deficiency is addressed or a backcourt deficiency is solved.

[O_Gardino]

I think it is going to be very hard for a post up center to make a team match up with him. I think any NBA team would love for a center to set up in the post, hold the ball, back his way down, and shoot 8-12 feet jumpers all game long. That means the team isn't moving the ball and isn't making a bunch of threes. Then, on the other end, the opponent will move the ball so well, have so much speed and athleticism on the floor, that it makes the big man a liability unless he is a defensive dynamo.

Reminded me of this:

[youtube][/youtube]

[Split T]

The evidence is happening right in front of our eyes. Look at this playoffs. No team left has anything approaching a traditional "dominant" big man. None of these teams play inside-out or like to post up. The nerds and stat-heads have figured out that is not the way to win. All of the teams left have amazing guard/swing play and 2-3 big stars who can shoot, pass, and defend.

Warriors:
Curry - excellent shooter, good passer, average defender
Durant - excellent shooter, ok passer, good defender
Thompson - excellent shooter, average passer, good defender
Green - ok shooter, good passer, good defender
(just a sick top-4)
(no dominant traditional big; KD is a 7'0 SF)

Rockets:
Paul - good shooter, excellent passer, good defender
Harden - great shooter, great passer, poor defender
Capela - ok shooter, ok passer, great defender
(role-playing defensive big)

Celtics:
Kyrie - great shooter, good passer, mediocre defender
Horford - good shooter, good passer, great defender
Tatum - good shooter, good passer, ok defender
Brown - mediocre shooter, good passer, great defender
(no traditional big man)

Cavs:
Lebron - good shooter, great passer, great defender
Love - good shooter, good passer, mediocre defender
Thompson(?) - poor shooter, ok passer, good defender
Smith(?) - good shooter, bad passer, bad defender
Korver(?) - great shooter, ok passer, bad defender
(god what a drop-off after the top 2)
(never should have traded Kyrie)

None of these teams play traditional bigs. And they're the best teams in the league. It should tell you something.

What's untraditional about Thompson and Capela?

Again, why do you want to imitate Golden State? We're not going to beat them playing their game, we don't have Curry and Durant.

Do you think a team could win in today's NBA with prime Shaq?

Philly is an up and comer and plays Embiid, should they trade him?

Should Utah trade Gobert? He couldn't get them past Houston

I'm also not sure why people think we're just gonna start throwing the ball into Ayton down low and stand around and watch him go to work. Ayton isn't Shaq. He has a pretty well developed jump shot already. We didn't get to see much of him creating from the perimeter in Arizona, but that area of his game could be developed.

Igor uses a lot of ball movement, with multiple screens on and off the ball. Ayton can screen and roll, screen and pop. He can pass out of the short roll, pass out of a double. He's not horford and probably won't ever be the ball handler/passer that horford is but he's also not Alex Len or Greg Monroe or Al Jefferson. Ayton is mobile and more skilled.

Those "traditional" bigs can't stay on the court because they can't guard anyone. Ayton has a lot to work to do on the defensive side of the ball, but he's got all the tools to be able to defend in this modern NBA. And he just might be good enough to force the Aron Baynes and Javale McGee to be put on the court.

[Superbone]

Keep fighting the good fight, Split! People lack imagination. They can only see what is in front of them at the moment.

[O_Gardino]

Guys, there was a change in NBA rules a while ago. The game is a lot less physical than it was. Speed is more important than strength now.
You can no longer push a guy to get post position the way you used to. You've got to establish position by getting to the spot first.
If you hit a guy while making your move it is now an offensive foul. You have to make your move around the defender with agility, not through him with strength.

There has also been a change in player talent. Guys are quicker, more agile, and better shooters.
In the old days, team's only had one or 2 guys on the floor who could shoot. You HAD to shoot it close because those were the only shots players could make. Now, teams routinely put 4 shooters on the court.
In the old days, teams only had 1 or 2 guys who were a threat to dribble. Now, teams routinely put 5 guys on the court who can drive to the basket.

IMO: a post up game is still a useful skill, but it will never again be a primary skill. It's a secondary skill. You let perimeter movement create mismatches, and the player is quick enough to dive and smart crafty enough to get a good shot before the defense can react. You cannot play inside-out, because the good coaches aren't dumb enough to double team a player in the post.

[Split T]

Guys, there was a change in NBA rules a while ago. The game is a lot less physical than it was. Speed is more important than strength now.
You can no longer push a guy to get post position the way you used to. You've got to establish position by getting to the spot first.
If you hit a guy while making your move it is now an offensive foul. You have to make your move around the defender with agility, not through him with strength.

There has also been a change in player talent. Guys are quicker, more agile, and better shooters.
In the old days, team's only had one or 2 guys on the floor who could shoot. You HAD to shoot it close because those were the only shots players could make. Now, teams routinely put 4 shooters on the court.
In the old days, teams only had 1 or 2 guys who were a threat to dribble. Now, teams routinely put 5 guys on the court who can drive to the basket.

IMO: a post up game is still a useful skill, but it will never again be a primary skill. It's a secondary skill. You let perimeter movement create mismatches, and the player is quick enough to dive and smart crafty enough to get a good shot before the defense can react. You cannot play inside-out, because the good coaches aren't dumb enough to double team a player in the post.

Have you watched Ayton? He's not bulldozing people like Shaq. He's very quick, agile, and athletic in the post.

[Cap]

Guys, there was a change in NBA rules a while ago. The game is a lot less physical than it was. Speed is more important than strength now.
You can no longer push a guy to get post position the way you used to. You've got to establish position by getting to the spot first.
If you hit a guy while making your move it is now an offensive foul. You have to make your move around the defender with agility, not through him with strength.

There has also been a change in player talent. Guys are quicker, more agile, and better shooters.
In the old days, team's only had one or 2 guys on the floor who could shoot. You HAD to shoot it close because those were the only shots players could make. Now, teams routinely put 4 shooters on the court.
In the old days, teams only had 1 or 2 guys who were a threat to dribble. Now, teams routinely put 5 guys on the court who can drive to the basket.

IMO: a post up game is still a useful skill, but it will never again be a primary skill. It's a secondary skill. You let perimeter movement create mismatches, and the player is quick enough to dive and smart crafty enough to get a good shot before the defense can react. You cannot play inside-out, because the good coaches aren't dumb enough to double team a player in the post.

Have you watched Ayton? He's not bulldozing people like Shaq. He's very quick, agile, and athletic in the post.

I think it’s still possible for a great big (if that’s what Ayton turns out being) to use post ups efficiently, as long as he’s not overly reliant on them. His ability to pass, move and shoot means you can’t take them away by putting a moose on him. (Well, you can, but he’ll punish you in other ways if you do.) If he only posts up as circumstances dictate, rather than forcing the post ups, I think he can be efficient with them. And if that’s true, he may be one of the few remaining players in the league who can.

[Wormwood]

Luka Doncic scouting report
— Dominated at age 18

— Has done things in Europe that no one has done before at his age

— European league not as good as it used to be – competition is weaker. Only about 8-10 good teams now

— Might have reached his peak

— Could struggle in more physical NBA

— Non-athletic

— Talent through the roof

— Tremendously skilled – can shoot, dribble, pass

— Very immature

— Not mentally or emotionally prepared to play in NBA right now​

— Entitled

— Full of himself

— Not liked by teammates

— Is not a point guard at next level … is a wing playmaker who can play the 2-3 but can at times guard 4 different positions

— Should absolutely be in consideration for No. 1 pick because of his overall talent

Deandre Ayton scouting report
– NBA body

– Better than Patrick Ewing and Hakeem Olajuwon were at the same age

– Dominant rebounder

– Great scoring instincts around the rim

– Not a shot blocker

– Handcuffed at Arizona by playing without a true point guard and with another big

– Arizona didn’t know how to use him properly

– Very skilled, very mobile

– Uses both hands extremely well

– Can’t-fail prospect

– Needs better spatial awareness

– Needs to work on moving his feet defensively on switches

[Cap]

Luka Doncic scouting report

— Very immature

— Entitled

— Full of himself

— Not liked by teammates

Sounds like somebody’s trying to sell him as the next Kobe or LeBron.

[Split T]

Guys, there was a change in NBA rules a while ago. The game is a lot less physical than it was. Speed is more important than strength now.
You can no longer push a guy to get post position the way you used to. You've got to establish position by getting to the spot first.
If you hit a guy while making your move it is now an offensive foul. You have to make your move around the defender with agility, not through him with strength.

There has also been a change in player talent. Guys are quicker, more agile, and better shooters.
In the old days, team's only had one or 2 guys on the floor who could shoot. You HAD to shoot it close because those were the only shots players could make. Now, teams routinely put 4 shooters on the court.
In the old days, teams only had 1 or 2 guys who were a threat to dribble. Now, teams routinely put 5 guys on the court who can drive to the basket.

IMO: a post up game is still a useful skill, but it will never again be a primary skill. It's a secondary skill. You let perimeter movement create mismatches, and the player is quick enough to dive and smart crafty enough to get a good shot before the defense can react. You cannot play inside-out, because the good coaches aren't dumb enough to double team a player in the post.

Have you watched Ayton? He's not bulldozing people like Shaq. He's very quick, agile, and athletic in the post.

I think it’s still possible for a great big (if that’s what Ayton turns out being) to use post ups efficiently, as long as he’s not overly reliant on them. His ability to pass, move and shoot means you can’t take them away by putting a moose on him. (Well, you can, but he’ll punish you in other ways if you do.) If he only posts up as circumstances dictate, rather than forcing the post ups, I think he can be efficient with them. And if that’s true, he may be one of the few remaining players in the league who can.

That's how I view him. I don't think posting up Ayton is going to be a go to move. It'll be situational and used to keep teams from switching. GS wouldn't be able to switch a Booker/Ayton pick and roll because Ayton would destroy Klay in the post

[JCSunsfan]

This is the only board I know of that is so infatuated with Doncic. He is a great player, but Ayton is the choice at #1. Ayton is unstoppable on offense, an excellent passer, already a good shooter in the midrange and has a better shooting percentage than Doncic from the three right now. Now the Euro three is longer, and Doncic takes a lot more, so I am not saying that Ayton is a better shooter. Ayton has the best combination of size, strength and agility coming out since AD, maybe since Shaq. His hands are like butter. He catches everything. UofA's coaching was horrendous. Ayton spent all year guarding wings at the 3 point line. Watch the tape. He needs some defensive coaching but he has the physical tools. Doncic works hard on D and his fundamentals on D are very good, he lacks the physical tools. Which player will a coach think he can help more? Ayton's footwork is amazing. He has very fast feet and he is amazingly quick down the floor. He started out in sports playing soccer like Hakeem.

Doncic will be a great player, maybe an all-star. Ayton could be a generational big. He is stronger and faster than KAT. He is faster than Embiid and does not have the injury issues. He has way way beyond Capella or Gobert offensively.

[Split T]

Defense will be the make or break point for Ayton. He hasn't been very good but he has all the tools. If he can't be a positive contributor on that end, he's not going to be a star.

I have no doubt that Doncic is a very good player. My only question will be how he handles NBA athleticism.

I think Ayton has a higher ceiling and there is a better chance he ends up a star. While I don't think he's really a bust candidate, I also think there's a better chance he ends up just ok.

Doncic to me is safer. His peak might only be somewhere around Joe Johnson/Gordon Hayward/Manu but I feel pretty good he's at least Nic Batum.

Ayton could be Embiid/Cousins/Towns, but he could also be Drummond or athletic Kanter.

I'm not ready to write off Bagley either. I think there's almost zero chance we draft him but he's the safest player in the top to me. He's at least an athletic version of Randle with a jumpshot.