I think the concerns around him are legitimate. There are a number of players drafted over the last few years who have so much to offer, but busted jumpers. And the line of thinking is always "let's draft him and if/when we fix his jumper, he'll be a star." And then it just doesn't happen. Think MKG, Winslow, etc. Those guys are topping out as solid role players, but they were both stud defenders from day 1. Jackson hasn't yet showed the 1-on-1 defense that those guys did early on.
I'm thinking Chriss, Bender, Jackson, TJ, Ulis, Len... why haven't we invested in a good shooting coach yet, I don't understand. If any one of these players upped their 3p% to 36% they'd suddenly become either rotational players in the NBA or borderline stars. A man can dream...
I don't know that I'd describe his jumper as broken. He's not a good shooter right now, but he's shown that he can hit shots when in rhythm. I don't know that he'll ever be a good shooter, but if he can just figure out what shots are good shots for him and be more consistent with his form, I think he can be respectable. If he's 33-34% as a spot up shooter from 3 and can pull up from the 15 foot range with some consistency, I'll be happy. He's got the ball handling, finishing, and passing to be a real threat at the rim without being elite, or even good as a shooter.
Bingo. Spot up more of an issue right now. But overall he needs to be tamed and learn shot selection. He can create off the dribble, but needs to be under control.
Also, his defense is overrated in my opinion, as he doesn't seem to react quickly to first steps and doesn't use his body enough before the the opponent's motion starts.
Overall I have a hard time figuring out where he fits if this team wants to start winning. He looks better suited for a team in the beginning of a rebuild (although he is not that young as a prospect).
I acknowledge his potential but I believe we would be wise to listen to what other teams would be willing to give up for him.
Agree with the assessment on Jackson, but disagree on the fact that he doesn't suit us. I'm not sure what the difference is between the beginning of a rebuild and an end of a rebuild, but we are not challenging for a playoff spot for 2 years, realistically speaking, and we still must focus on player development. As for the "not that young as a prospect" stuff I also respectfully disagree. He was 20 when he was a rookie, not 19 or 18... but he is still just 21 years old, barely able to drink. If he can't figure it out by time he's 23 or 24, then I'd be really worried. As far as I'm concerned last year was a lost year. if he really can play under control and figure out his strengths and focus on D, I still have hopes that he'll be an important rotational piece on a championship contender in 3 years. A #4 pick that turns out to be the #3 guy in a real contender is not bad. As a Suns fan, I'll take that all day.
Re: Ryan out as GM
Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:23 pm
by TOO
Keep trying to convince yourself Jackson will ever shoot it well. I fully expect him to do what Marcus Smart does, make you wish he could shoot, but be the heart and soul of the team defensively. Rarely do who can't shoot FT start doing it well, rarer is that just guys with ugly bad jumpers start doing it well.
I think the concerns around him are legitimate. There are a number of players drafted over the last few years who have so much to offer, but busted jumpers. And the line of thinking is always "let's draft him and if/when we fix his jumper, he'll be a star." And then it just doesn't happen. Think MKG, Winslow, etc. Those guys are topping out as solid role players, but they were both stud defenders from day 1. Jackson hasn't yet showed the 1-on-1 defense that those guys did early on.
I'm thinking Chriss, Bender, Jackson, TJ, Ulis, Len... why haven't we invested in a good shooting coach yet, I don't understand. If any one of these players upped their 3p% to 36% they'd suddenly become either rotational players in the NBA or borderline stars. A man can dream...
Right!? I've wondering that for years. One of the reasons SA is so good all the time at developing players is Chip.
Keep trying to convince yourself Jackson will ever shoot it well. I fully expect him to do what Marcus Smart does, make you wish he could shoot, but be the heart and soul of the team defensively. Rarely do who can't shoot FT start doing it well, rarer is that just guys with ugly bad jumpers start doing it well.
Some other guys whose rookie FT woes were as bad as JJ’s or worse: Blake Griffin, James Worthy, Tom Chambers, Quentin Richardson, Karl Malone, Scottie Pippen.
Keep trying to convince yourself Jackson will ever shoot it well. I fully expect him to do what Marcus Smart does, make you wish he could shoot, but be the heart and soul of the team defensively. Rarely do who can't shoot FT start doing it well, rarer is that just guys with ugly bad jumpers start doing it well.
Some other guys whose rookie FT woes were as bad as JJ’s or worse: Blake Griffin, James Worthy, Tom Chambers, Quentin Richardson, Karl Malone, Scottie Pippen.
It ain’t the end of the world.
That doesn't mean people can't act like it. Don't you dare take away their fun!
Keep trying to convince yourself Jackson will ever shoot it well. I fully expect him to do what Marcus Smart does, make you wish he could shoot, but be the heart and soul of the team defensively. Rarely do who can't shoot FT start doing it well, rarer is that just guys with ugly bad jumpers start doing it well.
Some other guys whose rookie FT woes were as bad as JJ’s or worse: Blake Griffin, James Worthy, Tom Chambers, Quentin Richardson, Karl Malone, Scottie Pippen.
It ain’t the end of the world.
That doesn't mean people can't act like it. Don't you dare take away their fun!
The list of rookies with WS as bad as JJ’s, on the other hand, is less encouraging. http://bkref.com/tiny/duCPd
Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf and Allan Houston look like the best of the bunch. Most of those guys never amounted to anything.
Re: Ryan out as GM
Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:45 pm
by SDC
in college, josh jackson made 56.6% of his FT. In his first year in the nba, he made 63.4% FT.
He should get a Pop a Shot machine and practice muscle memory.
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Re: Ryan out as GM
Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:49 pm
by SDC
Hassan Whiteside is now making 70% of his FT. it can be done.
I think the concerns around him are legitimate. There are a number of players drafted over the last few years who have so much to offer, but busted jumpers. And the line of thinking is always "let's draft him and if/when we fix his jumper, he'll be a star." And then it just doesn't happen. Think MKG, Winslow, etc. Those guys are topping out as solid role players, but they were both stud defenders from day 1. Jackson hasn't yet showed the 1-on-1 defense that those guys did early on.
I'm thinking Chriss, Bender, Jackson, TJ, Ulis, Len... why haven't we invested in a good shooting coach yet, I don't understand. If any one of these players upped their 3p% to 36% they'd suddenly become either rotational players in the NBA or borderline stars. A man can dream...
Our couch is supposed to be one of the best shooting coaches around.
Keep trying to convince yourself Jackson will ever shoot it well. I fully expect him to do what Marcus Smart does, make you wish he could shoot, but be the heart and soul of the team defensively. Rarely do who can't shoot FT start doing it well, rarer is that just guys with ugly bad jumpers start doing it well.
Some other guys whose rookie FT woes were as bad as JJ’s or worse: Blake Griffin, James Worthy, Tom Chambers, Quentin Richardson, Karl Malone, Scottie Pippen.
It ain’t the end of the world.
There are many, many, many more who didnt get better. You can use outliers for pretty much every sport as an example, but the majority of the time, things do not change.
Keep trying to convince yourself Jackson will ever shoot it well. I fully expect him to do what Marcus Smart does, make you wish he could shoot, but be the heart and soul of the team defensively. Rarely do who can't shoot FT start doing it well, rarer is that just guys with ugly bad jumpers start doing it well.
Some other guys whose rookie FT woes were as bad as JJ’s or worse: Blake Griffin, James Worthy, Tom Chambers, Quentin Richardson, Karl Malone, Scottie Pippen.
It ain’t the end of the world.
That doesn't mean people can't act like it. Don't you dare take away their fun!
I dont think JJ will ever be a decent shooter, big deal.
Exclamation point!
Re: Ryan out as GM
Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:06 am
by pickle
Also I meant to respond to another point but didn't want to post 3 times in a row... If Ryan really didn't talk to Booker before letting Ulis go, then something's really really wrong with his interpersonal skills. In this day and age it's hard for me to imagine that that could've really happened...
Re: Ryan out as GM
Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:44 am
by Flagrant Fowl
I think it's pretty clear that McDo lacked player relationship skills. Combined with Sarver's reputation around the league, it's not much of a mystery why high caliber free agents haven't had a serious interest in playing in Phoenix.
Re: Ryan out as GM
Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:52 am
by gosuns
Mc D deserved to be fired. In this Thread alone there are about 10 reasons why that is. This beeing said, if I was the new GM this would be my priorities.
Find playmakers. Right now we only have Booker and Jackson who can break down defenses and create space for our shooters. I think that is the reason our shooting sucked in preseason. We have enough shooters, we need more open shots. Also IMO a reason why Jackson struggled in preseason is that he was forced to do too much. When Booker returns to action our offense and Jackson should improve dramatically.
Fix Communication with Fans, Media and Players. Take the Colangelo SUNS and 7 seconds or less SUNS as a Model for this. (It is tougher now with social media...) Make Phoenix the Place to be for Free Agents and stop the drama. Tell Sarver to lean back and trust me.
Team Defense. We often rotate late which leeds to lay ups and dunks for opponents. (I noticed Troy Daniels and our young players often do this) Players inexplicably go under screens against shooters leading opponents to open outside shoots. (Our current guards do that a lot, i think thats what Igor meant regarding effort)
Fixing this takes time and teaching. Let Coach Igor work on this and see if we improve. If he tells me someone doesn’t get it, release or trade him.
Then after a couple of months sit down with coach and see where we stand and get a long term strategy in place.
Re: Ryan out as GM
Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:10 pm
by pickle
Sorry but you lost me at "tell Sarver to lean back and trust me"...
SAD! Trust me, everybody says that Sarver is a micro manager and control freak, but believe me, I heard somewhere that this is all false.
I don't intend to take it far down this path, but when I heard McHale's name brought up recently I immediately guessed that he and Sarver have MAGA connections. It would make too much sense.