With the FIRST pick in the 2018 NBA draft, the Phoenix Suns select...

[In2ition]

Late to the party but I have been celebrating ever since! Can't believe we got the number 1 pick! First time I've had hope as a Suns fan in a long time. I'd prefer Doncic but I won't be upset if it's Ayton.

Doncic- I love his feel for the game and just see him as a way more athletic Nash. I like his motor and that he wins. He knows the pick and roll game already. I see his ceiling as slightly lower than Ayton but his chance of failure, I think, is much lower than Ayton. He's like a taller J-Will. Never draft for need but we NEED both a PG and a big guy so I think that is moot.

Ayton- I love his length, athleticism and potential. I think he could be a Embiid Durant hybrid, whatever that may be. I think there's alot of "If's" with him right now. I haven't seen a great motor. Almost exactly how Drummond played in college so he could turn it on at the next level. I think he has the potential to be great but there's a risk he's Anthony Bennett. He didn't dominate like I expected him to at Arizona.

Welcome back! I have no concern that Ayton turns into a Bennett. His motor is fine, but I do wish he would develop a better urgency to protect the rim at all times. He seems to keep himself out of going for blocks from the weak side, as if expecting his teammates to take care of their man. You usually see this is much more inexperienced players, believing that if I just stay with my man and he doesn't score I'm good. I think he missed the idea that it's a team game on the defensive side of the ball and the ultimate idea is to keep the entire team from scoring. That's my biggest and one of my only gripes about him.

[Indy]

Almost exactly how Drummond played in college so he could turn it on at the next level.

Am I the only one that would be extremely disappointed if we draft him and he turns in to the next Drummond?

[Split T]

No I think we'd all be dissapointed. Drummond with a mid range jumper is his floor.

[JCSunsfan]

A history of D’oh!

Top-2 picks in the draft who were immediately followed by clearly superior picks. Some of these are more egregious than others.

1984: Sam Bowie over Michael Jordan
1989: Danny Ferry over Sean Elliott
1990: Derrick Coleman over Gary Payton
1993: Shawn Bradley over Penny Hardaway
1994: Glenn Robinson over Jason Kidd
1995: Joe Smith over Antonio McDyess
1997: Keith Van Horn over Chauncey Billups
1999: Michael Olowokandi over Mike Bibby
2001: Kwame Brown over Tyson Chandler
2001: Tyson Chandler over Pau Gasol
2003: Darko Milicic over Carmelo Anthony
2006: Andrea Bargnani over LaMarcus Aldridge
2007: Greg Oden over Kevin Durant
2009: Hasheem Thabeet over James Harden
2012: Michael Kidd-Gilchrist over Bradley Beal
2013: Anthony Bennett over Victor Oladipo

There are some pretty bad examples of big over guard/wing, with Bowie-Jordan, Oden-Durant and Thabeet-Harden being the most notable. I’m not seeing a lot of examples the other way around.

Here are some things to learn from that list

1. Injury issues matter. 1984, 1993, 2007
2. You cannot draft on physical profile alone. Skills must be present. 1999, 2001, 2009.
3. Beware of unknown Europeans. (Doncic is not unknown). 2003, 2006
4. High schoolers at #1 are dangerous, especially if drafted by Michael Jordan. 2001
5. Shooting matters. 2012
6. Don't do what the Clippers do. 1999

[djy2j]

Almost exactly how Drummond played in college so he could turn it on at the next level.

Am I the only one that would be extremely disappointed if we draft him and he turns in to the next Drummond?

I'd be disappointed because Drummond 2.0 shouldn't be a number one pick. Drummond had no motor in college and I've heard similar beefs from scouts, so far, with Ayton. Again, I would be fine with Ayton. As an armchair scout, motor is higher up on my list of importance than others. I also feel Doncic is a winner. I can't say for sure about Ayton.

[In2ition]

Almost exactly how Drummond played in college so he could turn it on at the next level.

Am I the only one that would be extremely disappointed if we draft him and he turns in to the next Drummond?

I'd be disappointed because Drummond 2.0 shouldn't be a number one pick. Drummond had no motor in college and I've heard similar beefs from scouts, so far, with Ayton. Again, I would be fine with Ayton. As an armchair scout, motor is higher up on my list of importance than others. I also feel Doncic is a winner. I can't say for sure about Ayton.

Ayton has a motor, I am not worried about that. Doncic is definitely a winner.

[JCSunsfan]

Almost exactly how Drummond played in college so he could turn it on at the next level.

Am I the only one that would be extremely disappointed if we draft him and he turns in to the next Drummond?

I'd be disappointed because Drummond 2.0 shouldn't be a number one pick. Drummond had no motor in college and I've heard similar beefs from scouts, so far, with Ayton. Again, I would be fine with Ayton. As an armchair scout, motor is higher up on my list of importance than others. I also feel Doncic is a winner. I can't say for sure about Ayton.

This no motor thing with Ayton is mystifying. You watch games, full games, and you see a motor on offense, you also see a motor on defense, especially on the perimeter. The problem with Ayton is that he seems completely oblivious about help defense. He guards his own guy even when another guy is driving right by him. When he does that, he looks totally unmotivated when its just sticking with his own guy. I don't know if it is an instinct thing, or he was coached to do that.

OK. This video helps some. McCoy had a career game against Arizona and here are the reasons.

1. Ristic was guarding him a lot of the time and could not keep up.
2. Ayton tried to help more in this game, when he switched off of McCoy to help, the ball ended up in McCoy's hands and he scored.
3. Ayton attemped more help blocks in this game, but it moved him out of rebounding postion, that left McCoy to gather the offensive rebound and score.

[Superbone]

http://www.nba.com/article/2018/05/21/m ... d-aldridge

The Suns, according to a source, interviewed a player who is a projected top five pick—which made sense, considering Phoenix has the top pick in the Draft after winning the Lottery.

The player told the assembled front office and coaches, ”I’d love to play for the Phoenix Suns. I’m not just saying that because you guys have the number one pick—I really feel like I’m the best player in the Draft and the best fit for your roster. I’d be saying that even if you guys didn’t have the number one pick. I don’t care where I get picked—I just want to be in Phoenix.” It was impressive.

After a beat, Suns GM Ryan McDonough answered: ‘Great. We also have the 16th pick. Do you want to try to work something out so we can pick you at 16?’

Player: Silence. Followed by the room breaking up.

[Cap]

http://www.nba.com/article/2018/05/21/m ... d-aldridge

The Suns, according to a source, interviewed a player who is a projected top five pick—which made sense, considering Phoenix has the top pick in the Draft after winning the Lottery.

The player told the assembled front office and coaches, ”I’d love to play for the Phoenix Suns. I’m not just saying that because you guys have the number one pick—I really feel like I’m the best player in the Draft and the best fit for your roster. I’d be saying that even if you guys didn’t have the number one pick. I don’t care where I get picked—I just want to be in Phoenix.” It was impressive.

After a beat, Suns GM Ryan McDonough answered: ‘Great. We also have the 16th pick. Do you want to try to work something out so we can pick you at 16?’

Player: Silence. Followed by the room breaking up.

[youtube][/youtube]

[Mori Chu]

http://www.nba.com/article/2018/05/21/m ... d-aldridge

The Suns, according to a source, interviewed a player who is a projected top five pick—which made sense, considering Phoenix has the top pick in the Draft after winning the Lottery.

The player told the assembled front office and coaches, ”I’d love to play for the Phoenix Suns. I’m not just saying that because you guys have the number one pick—I really feel like I’m the best player in the Draft and the best fit for your roster. I’d be saying that even if you guys didn’t have the number one pick. I don’t care where I get picked—I just want to be in Phoenix.” It was impressive.

After a beat, Suns GM Ryan McDonough answered: ‘Great. We also have the 16th pick. Do you want to try to work something out so we can pick you at 16?’

Player: Silence. Followed by the room breaking up.

This is a pretty cringey/dumb quote. But it does show that our team is willing to pull backdoor shenanigans to get players to drop to where our picks are located. I wonder if it means that Doncic will try to tank his value a bit so that he'd drop to #4/5 and then we would trade for that pick so we could nab him there.

[Split T]

http://www.nba.com/article/2018/05/21/m ... d-aldridge

The Suns, according to a source, interviewed a player who is a projected top five pick—which made sense, considering Phoenix has the top pick in the Draft after winning the Lottery.

The player told the assembled front office and coaches, ”I’d love to play for the Phoenix Suns. I’m not just saying that because you guys have the number one pick—I really feel like I’m the best player in the Draft and the best fit for your roster. I’d be saying that even if you guys didn’t have the number one pick. I don’t care where I get picked—I just want to be in Phoenix.” It was impressive.

After a beat, Suns GM Ryan McDonough answered: ‘Great. We also have the 16th pick. Do you want to try to work something out so we can pick you at 16?’

Player: Silence. Followed by the room breaking up.

This is a pretty cringey/dumb quote. But it does show that our team is willing to pull backdoor shenanigans to get players to drop to where our picks are located. I wonder if it means that Doncic will try to tank his value a bit so that he'd drop to #4/5 and then we would trade for that pick so we could nab him there.

I think you missed that it was a joke, the Suns weren't actually trying to get him at 16.

[In2ition]

http://www.nba.com/article/2018/05/21/m ... d-aldridge

The Suns, according to a source, interviewed a player who is a projected top five pick—which made sense, considering Phoenix has the top pick in the Draft after winning the Lottery.

The player told the assembled front office and coaches, ”I’d love to play for the Phoenix Suns. I’m not just saying that because you guys have the number one pick—I really feel like I’m the best player in the Draft and the best fit for your roster. I’d be saying that even if you guys didn’t have the number one pick. I don’t care where I get picked—I just want to be in Phoenix.” It was impressive.

After a beat, Suns GM Ryan McDonough answered: ‘Great. We also have the 16th pick. Do you want to try to work something out so we can pick you at 16?’

Player: Silence. Followed by the room breaking up.

This is a pretty cringey/dumb quote. But it does show that our team is willing to pull backdoor shenanigans to get players to drop to where our picks are located. I wonder if it means that Doncic will try to tank his value a bit so that he'd drop to #4/5 and then we would trade for that pick so we could nab him there.

It should have been...
Player: Silence(thinking.."oh sh!t, how much money is that? Is it even possible? Help!?!...oh gee, thank goodness...Ryan's got jokes"

Seriously, I wonder what player that was?

[In2ition]

Almost exactly how Drummond played in college so he could turn it on at the next level.

Am I the only one that would be extremely disappointed if we draft him and he turns in to the next Drummond?

I'd be disappointed because Drummond 2.0 shouldn't be a number one pick. Drummond had no motor in college and I've heard similar beefs from scouts, so far, with Ayton. Again, I would be fine with Ayton. As an armchair scout, motor is higher up on my list of importance than others. I also feel Doncic is a winner. I can't say for sure about Ayton.

This no motor thing with Ayton is mystifying. You watch games, full games, and you see a motor on offense, you also see a motor on defense, especially on the perimeter. The problem with Ayton is that he seems completely oblivious about help defense. He guards his own guy even when another guy is driving right by him. When he does that, he looks totally unmotivated when its just sticking with his own guy. I don't know if it is an instinct thing, or he was coached to do that.

OK. This video helps some. McCoy had a career game against Arizona and here are the reasons.

1. Ristic was guarding him a lot of the time and could not keep up.
2. Ayton tried to help more in this game, when he switched off of McCoy to help, the ball ended up in McCoy's hands and he scored.
3. Ayton attemped more help blocks in this game, but it moved him out of rebounding postion, that left McCoy to gather the offensive rebound and score.

If you watch the Hillcrest vs. Westtown (which had Mo Bamba and Cam Reddish) you will see a ton of Ayton standing flatfooted where a guy blows past his man and he could have offered some resistance but didn't. You even see him tell his teammate, "my bad, I should have helped" right afterwards. If anything, he was much better at helping last year in AZ. I guess you could say he's learning and improving, but it may take some time or vets getting into his face to be accountable. You can also see how much bigger he's gotten in a year. I wish he sought out contact and caught bodies more.

[Indy]

http://www.nba.com/article/2018/05/21/m ... d-aldridge

The Suns, according to a source, interviewed a player who is a projected top five pick—which made sense, considering Phoenix has the top pick in the Draft after winning the Lottery.

The player told the assembled front office and coaches, ”I’d love to play for the Phoenix Suns. I’m not just saying that because you guys have the number one pick—I really feel like I’m the best player in the Draft and the best fit for your roster. I’d be saying that even if you guys didn’t have the number one pick. I don’t care where I get picked—I just want to be in Phoenix.” It was impressive.

After a beat, Suns GM Ryan McDonough answered: ‘Great. We also have the 16th pick. Do you want to try to work something out so we can pick you at 16?’

Player: Silence. Followed by the room breaking up.

This is a pretty cringey/dumb quote. But it does show that our team is willing to pull backdoor shenanigans to get players to drop to where our picks are located. I wonder if it means that Doncic will try to tank his value a bit so that he'd drop to #4/5 and then we would trade for that pick so we could nab him there.

What was dumb or cringe worthy?

[Indy]

Almost exactly how Drummond played in college so he could turn it on at the next level.

Am I the only one that would be extremely disappointed if we draft him and he turns in to the next Drummond?

I'd be disappointed because Drummond 2.0 shouldn't be a number one pick. Drummond had no motor in college and I've heard similar beefs from scouts, so far, with Ayton. Again, I would be fine with Ayton. As an armchair scout, motor is higher up on my list of importance than others. I also feel Doncic is a winner. I can't say for sure about Ayton.

Ayton has a motor, I am not worried about that. Doncic is definitely a winner.

I hear/read a lot about his motor. I have only heard you and JCSF say he definitely has one. I don't watch UofA basketball at all, so I have no idea. But why are so many scouts saying it is a problem, while you guys insist it isn't? Do you chalk it all up to his lack of awareness/engagement in team defense?

[Indy]

No I think we'd all be dissapointed. Drummond with a mid range jumper is his floor.

The more I read, the more I am worried about his shot extending past mid-range.

[JustWinBaby]

It seems as though both sides of this argument are going to continue to try to discredit the other side.

Both Ayton and Doncic are going to turn out to be fantastic players in the NBA, that is a given in my book. It really comes down to which player fits our needs best and who else we think we can add via the draft, trade or free agency that will complete our team. The problem is that each of them bring different things to the party. One has the potential to be a legendary big man and the other a legendary leader (Engine) for our team.
IMO the discussion should revolve around which is needed most for our team and is a better long term fit.

While I am not a fan of Robert Sarver I can understand him leaning toward Doncic. This team has not had a leader since Steve Nash. While Booker is well liked he is not in the same orbit as Steve Nash. If Donic comes as advertised I can see an immediate star. However would that be good or bad for our relationship with Booker & Jackson. He would invade their space. I expect that Booker and Jackson would prefer Ayton, but is that best for the team.

Great discussion - tough decision in June

[In2ition]

No I think we'd all be dissapointed. Drummond with a mid range jumper is his floor.

The more I read, the more I am worried about his shot extending past mid-range.

Nah, his form is fine for extending it past mid-range. He gets nice rotation and arc on the shot too, it would only be a matter of reps. His form is much cleaner than Jackson's.

[In2ition]

Almost exactly how Drummond played in college so he could turn it on at the next level.

Am I the only one that would be extremely disappointed if we draft him and he turns in to the next Drummond?

I'd be disappointed because Drummond 2.0 shouldn't be a number one pick. Drummond had no motor in college and I've heard similar beefs from scouts, so far, with Ayton. Again, I would be fine with Ayton. As an armchair scout, motor is higher up on my list of importance than others. I also feel Doncic is a winner. I can't say for sure about Ayton.

Ayton has a motor, I am not worried about that. Doncic is definitely a winner.

I hear/read a lot about his motor. I have only heard you and JCSF say he definitely has one. I don't watch UofA basketball at all, so I have no idea. But why are so many scouts saying it is a problem, while you guys insist it isn't? Do you chalk it all up to his lack of awareness/engagement in team defense?

It might be awareness/engagement. I'm not sure. I wonder if he hasn't embraced the defender of the rim role or that they didn't work on it so much. It makes me wonder how his practices were, since he seemed to be the most outstanding practice player nearly all year long.

[Cap]

It seems as though both sides of this argument are going to continue to try to discredit the other side.

Both Ayton and Doncic are going to turn out to be fantastic players in the NBA, that is a given in my book. It really comes down to which player fits our needs best and who else we think we can add via the draft, trade or free agency that will complete our team. The problem is that each of them bring different things to the party. One has the potential to be a legendary big man and the other a legendary leader (Engine) for our team.
IMO the discussion should revolve around which is needed most for our team and is a better long term fit.

While I am not a fan of Robert Sarver I can understand him leaning toward Doncic. This team has not had a leader since Steve Nash. While Booker is well liked he is not in the same orbit as Steve Nash. If Donic comes as advertised I can see an immediate star. However would that be good or bad for our relationship with Booker & Jackson. He would invade their space. I expect that Booker and Jackson would prefer Ayton, but is that best for the team.

Great discussion - tough decision in June

It makes some sense to consider fit, but in the long run the only player the additions need to fit with is Booker. Everyone else is a piece who may or may not still be here when we get around to contending. You don’t pass on BPA because he creates a logjam with Jackson/Warren/Bender/Chriss. (Unless you think BPA is NBD, which doesn’t seem to be the case here). Move some of the other guys if you have to.