Phx-Suns.Net

INFORMER wrote:

UglyTruth wrote:Eh watching this, Ayton’s defense is actually a lot worse than I imagined

[youtube][/youtube]

His timing is super, super bad. I think many D league players can score on him at will if given the opportunity.

Eh. They put together a video of every bad defensive possession he had, so of course he isn't going to look good. Plus, most of those moments were him guarding perimeter players at the 3-point line. How many centers in the NBA can defend a perimeter player at the 3-point line?

And most of those plays, he stayed with the player. He just took some bad angles, and his challenges were late. I think that can be coached up.

Ok, what about this? I think you're dismissing his defensive shortcomings too generously

https://www.thestepien.com/2018/04/29/f ... -nc-state/

n4th4n wrote:

JCSunsfan wrote:

Split T wrote:

https://twitter.com/sbordow/status/997565313884532736

Most interesting is probably the guys not on the list:

Mikal Bridges - not sure he is at the combine though
Miles Bridges
Jontay Porter

Pretty much every other top 15 guy is on the list though(except Ayton, Doncic, and Williams who aren't at the combine), although I probably missed someone.

I just don't get the intrigue with Jontay Porter.

Size/shooting/rebounding/passing.

I'll add that he might be the best pick setter in the draft, and he reads pays really really well for such a young guy. Seems to always be in the right place.

I get that his game doesn't look sexy. He's not a ferocious dunker and he looks like a bigger Dudley. But the play is there.

Cap wrote:

INFORMER wrote:

JustWinBaby wrote: San Antonio probably made a huge mistake in signing Aldridge. He scores 2 the other team scores 3.

Actually, that situation can be used to support drafting Ayton. The Spurs made it to the playoffs with Aldridge, great coaching, and a pretty lackluster roster. If Ayton can be Aldridge, joined by wing talent like Josh Jackson and Devon Booker, how much better could that combination be?

Yeah, if Kokoskov turns out to be the next Pop, we’re in good shape.

But what are the odds of that?

Or look at DeAndre Jordan with a trash roster and average coach in LA. Bigs can still make a difference if used properly.

Wait, I'm supposed to be on Team Doncic.

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:

In2ition wrote:I would have thought some sunshine and optimism would hit you all after getting the #1 pick.

You must be new here.

UglyTruth wrote:Surprised by the poll results. I would've thought it would've been like 90% Ayton.

Impressed that not everyone here is UoA homers like ASFN boards.

The fact that I am a U of A fan who watched every one of Ayton's games is WHY I prefer Doncic. Ayton is a historically bad defender. The fact that he is this bad despite all his physical advantages is an even more profound indictment. I can't count how many times over the season I would see someone walk down the lane for a layup as Ayton watch it happen while standing motionless in cement just 5 feet away.

All that being said. I still think he is an amazing prospect.

n4th4n wrote:

UglyTruth wrote:Surprised by the poll results. I would've thought it would've been like 90% Ayton.

Impressed that not everyone here is UoA homers like ASFN boards.

The fact that I am a U of A fan who watched every one of Ayton's games is WHY I prefer Doncic. Ayton is a historically bad defender. The fact that he is this bad despite all his physical advantages is an even more profound indictment. I can't count how many times over the season I would see someone walk down the lane for a layup as Ayton watch it happen while standing motionless in cement just 5 feet away.

All that being said. I still think he is an amazing prospect.

I'm definitely a UofA homer and I go back and forth on Doncic and Ayton everyday. I love both their games. They both fill massive needs on our team. But I honestly think that Ayton plays great defense for a 5. He switches on screens really well, he can guard on the perimeter, and he doesn't reach or get into foul trouble. I think Sean Miller is a mediocre coach at best, and that's why other teams were able to score in the paint against Arizona and Ayton didn't come over to help. Watching the games, I think players other than Ayton were expected to stop penetration or switch onto those drives and that Ayton was just following the game plan. I think those defensive lapses were Miller's fault, not Ayton's.

Anyways, that's my take. I'm also a fan of Brandon McCoy. I think if I knew for sure that we could get McCoy with a late 2nd rounder, I think I'd lean towards taking Doncic.

wpmiller42 wrote: I'm also a fan of Brandon McCoy. I think if I knew for sure that we could get McCoy with a late 2nd rounder, I think I'd lean towards taking Doncic.

If you’re such a fan, why not take him at 31 instead of counting on him to drop?

n4th4n wrote: Ayton is a historically bad defender.

I think that's a gross exaggeration.

Cap wrote:

wpmiller42 wrote: I'm also a fan of Brandon McCoy. I think if I knew for sure that we could get McCoy with a late 2nd rounder, I think I'd lean towards taking Doncic.

If you’re such a fan, why not take him at 31 instead of counting on him to drop?

Only because all the mock drafts I've seen have him going in the late 2nd, if at all. I think the 31st pick is going to be a really valuable pick, and I think we can get McCoy either by straight out buying a late 2nd or trading a future second for a late second in this year's draft. Personally, I would be totally fine taking him at #31, but I think we can get McCoy later and use #31 on someone who unexpectedly slips out of the first round, or part of a trade package. But who knows? Maybe after the combine and team workouts, McCoy will start moving up the draft boards and we'll be totally justified using the #31 on him.

INFORMER wrote:

n4th4n wrote: Ayton is a historically bad defender.

I think that's a gross exaggeration.

How about this. His defensive production is historically low when compared to other center prospects who were considered with the #1 overall pick. It's worth noting, he DID play the entire season out of position. But he was also considered a poor defender in high school.

To add numbers for context, let's look at blocks per 40 for other top one-and-done center prospects.

Anthony Davis - 5.8
Greg Oden - 4.5
Karl-Anthony Towns - 4.3
DeAndre Ayton - 2.6

Now, obviously, blocks are not a great signifier of overall defensive still, but I find it very damning that he was so unproductive given his physical ability.

Edit: Also, I agree with other posters that Sean Miller is a poor coach who did not do a very good job of putting Ayton in a position to succeed.

n4th4n wrote:

INFORMER wrote:

n4th4n wrote: Ayton is a historically bad defender.

I think that's a gross exaggeration.

How about this. His defensive production is historically low when compared to other center prospects who were considered with the #1 overall pick. It's worth noting, he DID play the entire season out of position. But he was also considered a poor defender in high school.

To add numbers for context, let's look at blocks per 40 for other top one-and-done center prospects.

Anthony Davis - 5.8
Greg Oden - 4.5
Karl-Anthony Towns - 4.3
DeAndre Ayton - 2.6

Now, obviously, blocks are not a great signifier of overall defensive still, but I find it very damning that he was so unproductive given his physical ability.

Edit: Also, I agree with other posters that Sean Miller is a poor coach who did not do a very good job of putting Ayton in a position to succeed.

He did play all year at the forward position. There was a center on the floor besides him.

[youtube][/youtube]

I am not actually *that* concerned about Ayton's defense. Luckily, there is a very storied history of poor college defenders becoming great NBA defenders...

n4th4n wrote:I am not actually *that* concerned about Ayton's defense. Luckily, there is a very storied history of poor college defenders becoming great NBA defenders...

It's all about effort and education. He's already got the athletic gift.

Split T wrote:

https://twitter.com/sbordow/status/997565313884532736

Most interesting is probably the guys not on the list:

Mikal Bridges - not sure he is at the combine though
Miles Bridges
Jontay Porter

Pretty much every other top 15 guy is on the list though(except Ayton, Doncic, and Williams who aren't at the combine), although I probably missed someone.

No Lonnie Walker, no Josh Okogie. Hmmm...

Interestingly every single block in that video was Ayton blocking his man or a man he switched on. He never blocked a shot from the weakside. I wonder if that was a system thing. Did Miller just tell Ayton to defend his man and not help? Could explain some of his lapses where he watched people lay it in from 5 feet away.

Is there a stat somewhere that tracks the percentage of blocks that lead to defensive rebounds? Seemed like a high number of Ayton’s swats ended up in the hands of his teammates. Maybe this is normal for most blocks, I’ve never really considered it before.

Split T wrote:Interestingly every single block in that video was Ayton blocking his man or a man he switched on. He never blocked a shot from the weakside. I wonder if that was a system thing. Did Miller just tell Ayton to defend his man and not help? Could explain some of his lapses where he watched people lay it in from 5 feet away.

THAT is the issue with his shot blocking, and I do not have an answer for you. Its almost like he was coached to stay home.

INFORMER wrote:

Split T wrote:

https://twitter.com/sbordow/status/997565313884532736

Most interesting is probably the guys not on the list:

Mikal Bridges - not sure he is at the combine though
Miles Bridges
Jontay Porter

Pretty much every other top 15 guy is on the list though(except Ayton, Doncic, and Williams who aren't at the combine), although I probably missed someone.

No Lonnie Walker, no Josh Okogie. Hmmm...

Walker has borderline Elfrid hair. Okogie seems to be being slept on, weird.

That Kentucky 22 player looks scared!