Phx-Suns.Net

Posted: **Wed Aug 05, 2020 10:58 am**

I will add in another reason.
8. The best teams in the West have multiple big bigs and can go with huge lineups. Blazers, Mavs, Lakers, Denver, Memphis

I keep going back to thinking Ayton is going to break our heart with him fumbling a pass or not catching it cleanly in a clutch moment in the playoffs or big game. Or just avoiding contact and settling for a 40% midrange shot and rushing it

Posted: **Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:35 am**

In2ition wrote: ↑
Wed Aug 05, 2020 10:46 am
If for some miracle the Suns learn that FVV is interested and willing to come to Phx, I am pretty happy with the Forward situation on the team. That being said, if also the Suns move up in the draft, I would take a serious look at taking Wiseman. I know the arguments against it, especially with having taken Ayton #1 and being a center, but I'm a little worried about his hands and the fact that he isn't/hasn't learned how to create contact and get other bigs in foul trouble.
1. Wiseman could help Ayton in his development, since they don't have anyone that can match him in size and length.
2. He also provides a great backup(in the future, hopefully) this next season.
3. I believe that he has better hands and a wider catch radius as a rim running big.
4. You have a good big man whisperer in Mark Bryant for development.
5. This also offers security if Ayton gets into foul trouble and/or Wiseman develops into a better big. This was killing us when we played Mavs and Boban came in while Ayton was sitting with fouls.
6. I also think he has a better tendency to get to the line more than Ayton does.
7. The Suns really miss a rim protector when Ayton is not in there.

I wouldn't go with Wiseman, but I don't hate the idea. Wiseman is agile for his size. I don't think we would get roasted by being too big.

But I would prefer Okonwu or Toppin.

Posted: **Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:45 am**

O_Gardino wrote: ↑
Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:35 am

In2ition wrote: ↑
Wed Aug 05, 2020 10:46 am
If for some miracle the Suns learn that FVV is interested and willing to come to Phx, I am pretty happy with the Forward situation on the team. That being said, if also the Suns move up in the draft, I would take a serious look at taking Wiseman. I know the arguments against it, especially with having taken Ayton #1 and being a center, but I'm a little worried about his hands and the fact that he isn't/hasn't learned how to create contact and get other bigs in foul trouble.
1. Wiseman could help Ayton in his development, since they don't have anyone that can match him in size and length.
2. He also provides a great backup(in the future, hopefully) this next season.
3. I believe that he has better hands and a wider catch radius as a rim running big.
4. You have a good big man whisperer in Mark Bryant for development.
5. This also offers security if Ayton gets into foul trouble and/or Wiseman develops into a better big. This was killing us when we played Mavs and Boban came in while Ayton was sitting with fouls.
6. I also think he has a better tendency to get to the line more than Ayton does.
7. The Suns really miss a rim protector when Ayton is not in there.
I wouldn't go with Wiseman, but I don't hate the idea. Wiseman is agile for his size. I don't think we would get roasted by being too big.

But I would prefer Okonwu or Toppin.

I think Okongwu is pretty good and I like Toppin offensively, but don't see him has much of a defender right now. He is more of a PF right now, and gets exposed on defense. I do like Toppin a lot, but not sure how much he's needed if you have Oubre, Johnson, and Saric. I'm assuming Saric is brought back and they feel like Oubre is still essential.

Posted: **Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:48 am**

ShelC wrote: ↑
Wed Aug 05, 2020 10:55 am
We're not exactly set with our bigs tho with Baynes and Dario as FAs. If we lose both, we need some vets to give us depth. There's not a lot out there and I'm not sure how much we have to spend at the moment. Even if we keep Dario for a year, we still need an effective backup big.

I will miss Baynes a lot.

Posted: **Wed Aug 05, 2020 12:03 pm**

In2ition wrote: ↑
Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:45 am

O_Gardino wrote: ↑
Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:35 am

In2ition wrote: ↑
Wed Aug 05, 2020 10:46 am
If for some miracle the Suns learn that FVV is interested and willing to come to Phx, I am pretty happy with the Forward situation on the team. That being said, if also the Suns move up in the draft, I would take a serious look at taking Wiseman. I know the arguments against it, especially with having taken Ayton #1 and being a center, but I'm a little worried about his hands and the fact that he isn't/hasn't learned how to create contact and get other bigs in foul trouble.
1. Wiseman could help Ayton in his development, since they don't have anyone that can match him in size and length.
2. He also provides a great backup(in the future, hopefully) this next season.
3. I believe that he has better hands and a wider catch radius as a rim running big.
4. You have a good big man whisperer in Mark Bryant for development.
5. This also offers security if Ayton gets into foul trouble and/or Wiseman develops into a better big. This was killing us when we played Mavs and Boban came in while Ayton was sitting with fouls.
6. I also think he has a better tendency to get to the line more than Ayton does.
7. The Suns really miss a rim protector when Ayton is not in there.
I wouldn't go with Wiseman, but I don't hate the idea. Wiseman is agile for his size. I don't think we would get roasted by being too big.

But I would prefer Okonwu or Toppin.
I think Okongwu is pretty good and I like Toppin offensively, but don't see him has much of a defender right now. He is more of a PF right now, and gets exposed on defense. I do like Toppin a lot, but not sure how much he's needed if you have Oubre, Johnson, and Saric. I'm assuming Saric is brought back and they feel like Oubre is still essential.

You're not wrong about Toppin's defense and the positional difference. I consider both Toppin and Okongwu to be 4s, although many think Okongwu ends up a 5 in the NBA.

Toppin, IMO is the perfect fit on offense. This team still needs another creator and legit go-to scorer.
Okongwu is the perfect fir on the other end of the court, and I think he's going to be a good player on offense, too. I don't think he's becomes a 25ppg guy, but I do think the shot and passing will be there.
Wiseman has the highest ceiling of anyone in the draft, but he's a big risk. Maybe injuries get him, or maybe he doesn't develop the court awareness, etc.

Posted: **Wed Aug 05, 2020 12:04 pm**

carey wrote: ↑
Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:48 am

ShelC wrote: ↑
Wed Aug 05, 2020 10:55 am
We're not exactly set with our bigs tho with Baynes and Dario as FAs. If we lose both, we need some vets to give us depth. There's not a lot out there and I'm not sure how much we have to spend at the moment. Even if we keep Dario for a year, we still need an effective backup big.
I will miss Baynes a lot.

I expect us to keep Baynes. I think Jones and Monty value him a lot.

Posted: **Wed Aug 05, 2020 1:58 pm**

I like Baynes, too, but somebody will probably come calling with a $10-12+ million/year contract. Don't think we would match that. I think the more realistic one we might be able to keep is Saric, but it is not clear to me that we should. He tries hard and gets in better shape right as his contract is expiring; I don't like when players do that.

I found myself looking up Richaun Holmes stats to see how he's doing in SAC. Did you guys know they play him 28 minutes a game?! And that he averages 12.6 points on 65.8% shooting, 8.3 rebounds, 1.3 blocks? Wow. I guess he's probably happy there.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/pl ... eri01.html

Posted: **Wed Aug 05, 2020 2:07 pm**

Mori Chu wrote: ↑
Wed Aug 05, 2020 1:58 pm
I like Baynes, too, but somebody will probably come calling with a $10-12+ million/year contract. Don't think we would match that. I think the more realistic one we might be able to keep is Saric, but it is not clear to me that we should. He tries hard and gets in better shape right as his contract is expiring; I don't like when players do that.

I found myself looking up Richaun Holmes stats to see how he's doing in SAC. Did you guys know they play him 28 minutes a game?! And that he averages 12.6 points on 65.8% shooting, 8.3 rebounds, 1.3 blocks? Wow. I guess he's probably happy there.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/pl ... eri01.html

You could argue he was their 2nd best player this year.

Posted: **Wed Aug 05, 2020 2:13 pm**

carey wrote: ↑
Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:48 am

ShelC wrote: ↑
Wed Aug 05, 2020 10:55 am
We're not exactly set with our bigs tho with Baynes and Dario as FAs. If we lose both, we need some vets to give us depth. There's not a lot out there and I'm not sure how much we have to spend at the moment. Even if we keep Dario for a year, we still need an effective backup big.
I will miss Baynes a lot.

And his star follower's twitter account.

Posted: **Wed Aug 05, 2020 2:16 pm**

O_Gardino wrote: ↑
Wed Aug 05, 2020 12:03 pm

In2ition wrote: ↑
Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:45 am

O_Gardino wrote: ↑
Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:35 am

In2ition wrote: ↑
Wed Aug 05, 2020 10:46 am
If for some miracle the Suns learn that FVV is interested and willing to come to Phx, I am pretty happy with the Forward situation on the team. That being said, if also the Suns move up in the draft, I would take a serious look at taking Wiseman. I know the arguments against it, especially with having taken Ayton #1 and being a center, but I'm a little worried about his hands and the fact that he isn't/hasn't learned how to create contact and get other bigs in foul trouble.
1. Wiseman could help Ayton in his development, since they don't have anyone that can match him in size and length.
2. He also provides a great backup(in the future, hopefully) this next season.
3. I believe that he has better hands and a wider catch radius as a rim running big.
4. You have a good big man whisperer in Mark Bryant for development.
5. This also offers security if Ayton gets into foul trouble and/or Wiseman develops into a better big. This was killing us when we played Mavs and Boban came in while Ayton was sitting with fouls.
6. I also think he has a better tendency to get to the line more than Ayton does.
7. The Suns really miss a rim protector when Ayton is not in there.
I wouldn't go with Wiseman, but I don't hate the idea. Wiseman is agile for his size. I don't think we would get roasted by being too big.

But I would prefer Okonwu or Toppin.
I think Okongwu is pretty good and I like Toppin offensively, but don't see him has much of a defender right now. He is more of a PF right now, and gets exposed on defense. I do like Toppin a lot, but not sure how much he's needed if you have Oubre, Johnson, and Saric. I'm assuming Saric is brought back and they feel like Oubre is still essential.
You're not wrong about Toppin's defense and the positional difference. I consider both Toppin and Okongwu to be 4s, although many think Okongwu ends up a 5 in the NBA.

Toppin, IMO is the perfect fit on offense. This team still needs another creator and legit go-to scorer.
Okongwu is the perfect fir on the other end of the court, and I think he's going to be a good player on offense, too. I don't think he's becomes a 25ppg guy, but I do think the shot and passing will be there.
Wiseman has the highest ceiling of anyone in the draft, but he's a big risk. Maybe injuries get him, or maybe he doesn't develop the court awareness, etc.

I like Toppin too, and he would be my target if others are gone, or if they trade Oubre.

I also like Okongwu and think he's the safe pick, but I think the Suns can gamble here on a home run pick. I agree, he could be a bust, but he's a smart kid and apparently a hard worker. If he wasn't either one of those, I would think his bust potential is much much higher. Just my opinion.

Posted: **Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:13 pm**

Superbone wrote: ↑
Wed Aug 05, 2020 1:12 am
I’m really surprised by you guys. I’m not interested in a 2 who can’t shoot.

Aztec Sunsfan wrote: ↑
Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:46 am
You can’t have more than one guard on your rotation with an unreliable shot.

Mori Chu wrote: ↑
Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:33 am
Shaq Harrison can't shoot, so I don't have much interest in him.

Outdated scouting reports.

Posted: **Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:24 pm**

In2ition wrote: ↑
Wed Aug 05, 2020 10:58 am
I will add in another reason.
8. The best teams in the West have multiple big bigs and can go with huge lineups. Blazers, Mavs, Lakers, Denver, Memphis

Blazers - Zach Collins doesn't a decided advantage over our small lineup. I think the Blazers end up having to match up with us.
Mavs - they're mostly playing small; you make draft decisions to counter Boban. Sign Christ Koumadje and call it a day
Lakers - they eventually go to a LeBron-Kuzma-Davis frontline; Howard and McGee don't scare me into trying to match size for size
Denver - They aren't running huge lineups; they may not even bring back Paul Millsap, and Michael Porter Jr. and Jerami Grant are perimeter players.
Memphis - good point, but you don't beat Memphis at their own game; and JJJ spends a lot of time on the perimeter and is a poor rebounder

Posted: **Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:26 pm**

Shaq Harrison has improved as a shooter, but pretty far from reliable.

Take away the two games in a row when he was hot (3-3, 5-6) in March and his 3pt percentage is .242 on the season.

He's .576 at the rim on 85 attempts, but .315 on everything else inside the 3 point line.

Maybe he can get a bit better, but I wouldn't want to rely on him as a third guard or wing.

Posted: **Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:34 pm**

No, he would 't be the third guard. Keep Payne, sign Trier, sign Harrison.

Posted: **Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:40 pm**

INFORMER wrote: ↑
Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:34 pm
No, he would 't be the third guard. Keep Payne, sign Trier, sign Harrison.

I suppose if they traded Oubre, kept the bubble starting 5, he'd be an interesting replacement.

Payne, Carter, Shaq, Dario, (?). Not terrible for a bench squad.

Posted: **Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:48 pm**

I wouldn't keep Carter.

Posted: **Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:50 pm**

Sure, but I'd put the likelihood that he'll be on the roster in October at like 95%.

Posted: **Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:51 pm**

Can’t shoot. Never will. Not interested. Total liability. I’d rather keep Carter, and you know how I feel about him. I want to keep Payne around.

I would love to go after Dragic with some money as our first guard off the bench with Payne, but I doubt he’d give this organization another chance.

Posted: **Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:14 pm**

INFORMER wrote: ↑
Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:13 pm

Superbone wrote: ↑
Wed Aug 05, 2020 1:12 am
I’m really surprised by you guys. I’m not interested in a 2 who can’t shoot.

Aztec Sunsfan wrote: ↑
Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:46 am
You can’t have more than one guard on your rotation with an unreliable shot.

Mori Chu wrote: ↑
Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:33 am
Shaq Harrison can't shoot, so I don't have much interest in him.

Outdated scouting reports.

Well, let's hear it!

Posted: **Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:25 pm**

INFORMER wrote: ↑
Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:13 pm

Superbone wrote: ↑
Wed Aug 05, 2020 1:12 am
I’m really surprised by you guys. I’m not interested in a 2 who can’t shoot.

Aztec Sunsfan wrote: ↑
Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:46 am
You can’t have more than one guard on your rotation with an unreliable shot.

Mori Chu wrote: ↑
Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:33 am
Shaq Harrison can't shoot, so I don't have much interest in him.

Outdated scouting reports.

“You shouldn’t...” because our Suns obviously were able to pull it off, no once...

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