Suns News: October

[Phoenix219]

There are fewer than a handful of players in the NBA who combine Frye’s size, floor spacing ability, and competent post defense. When he was on the court, the Suns played like the best offense in the league, scoring 110.4 points per 100 possessions. No rotation player in Phoenix had a better on-court plus-minus. This is a team that won largely because of its prolific 3-point shooting. And it is now faced with the task of replacing the man who made it all possible.

Frye’s departure also robbed the Suns of their most productive duo. Of the 22 tandems that played at least 750 minutes last season, Markieff Morris and Frye were by far the best. When the two were on the floor together, the Suns were scoring 115.4 points per 100 possessions, with a net rating of 11.6 — easily the best numbers of the lot. Dragic and Bledsoe came in second with 11.0. So yeah, Channing Frye is kind of like The Book of Eli, except massively important.

Count me on the "we don't fully realize what we let walk away" camp - and Swing, we may be getting lucky, but most of the injuries suffered by departing Suns may not have happened here - butterfly effect, random chance, and our training staff make any "what ifs" a pointless excercise. Its impossible to correlate injuries suffered in different situations with what would have happened if they had stayed.

Considering what we just handed away in extentions and contracts in the last 2 weeks, we really could have afforded a tad bit more for Frye.

[EDC]

https://twitter.com/paulcoro/status/518133209427873792

That is awesome. Do we know about any of the other preseason games? Espn is showing the Clippers game but the rest aren't showing any broadcast. Maybe NBATV will have some of them.

I'm hoping if the game isn't showed locally that I will be able to pick it up from the local station for whatever team we are playing through ballstreams. Canceled my cable about half way through the season last year and got by with streams. The whole blackout crap with NBALP is really crappy for the consumers. Didn't want to bother with a vpn. So I am giving ballstreams a go this year. So far from archived games it looks great but we will see how well it does when it comes to live games.

[EDC]

Count me on the "we don't fully realize what we let walk away" camp - and Swing, we may be getting lucky, but most of the injuries suffered by departing Suns may not have happened here - butterfly effect, random chance, and our training staff make any "what ifs" a pointless excercise. Its impossible to correlate injuries suffered in different situations with what would have happened if they had stayed.

Considering what we just handed away in extentions and contracts in the last 2 weeks, we really could have afforded a tad bit more for Frye.

It would have been bad for the team if we gave him as much as he got from Orlando.

The best part about the Frye stuff is that no one can point to regular stats and say see that is why he is worth so much to this team. It is always these advanced stats where they take a player that is better than Frye and then go when that player plays with Frye he plays well.

Or like in the Lowe podcast they will talk about how he magically changes the defense just being on the court. The threat of his three point shot and that he can't be replaced by any other stretch four. Frye did okay from the three point line but I wouldn't say 37% is super amazing. I mean Tolliver shot 41% while shooting a little more than half the shots Frye did.

Now yes Frye does a lot of things well like set good screens, hitting the open three and solid post defense and we will miss him. I think the fact that so much of his worth is measured in these complex stats makes people overstate his worth.

Another great one is the Suns best offensive lineups was something like Bledsoe, Dragic, Tucker, Markieff, Frye. So naturally the storyline out of that would be Bledsoe and Dragic benefit so much from Frye being on the floor. Not Frye benefits from playing with near all star caliber guards.

Either way Frye will be missed and I hope he recovers quickly and has a good season.

[INFORMER]

The bad thing about advance stats is that it can lead to intellectual dishonesty.

[TOO]

I will always go with what I see on the court. Frye was streaky as hell and had very little to offer when his shot wasn't falling. Kieff and Tolliver should fill the role just fine.

[SwingMan]

There are fewer than a handful of players in the NBA who combine Frye’s size, floor spacing ability, and competent post defense. When he was on the court, the Suns played like the best offense in the league, scoring 110.4 points per 100 possessions. No rotation player in Phoenix had a better on-court plus-minus. This is a team that won largely because of its prolific 3-point shooting. And it is now faced with the task of replacing the man who made it all possible.

Frye’s departure also robbed the Suns of their most productive duo. Of the 22 tandems that played at least 750 minutes last season, Markieff Morris and Frye were by far the best. When the two were on the floor together, the Suns were scoring 115.4 points per 100 possessions, with a net rating of 11.6 — easily the best numbers of the lot. Dragic and Bledsoe came in second with 11.0. So yeah, Channing Frye is kind of like The Book of Eli, except massively important.

Count me on the "we don't fully realize what we let walk away" camp - and Swing, we may be getting lucky, but most of the injuries suffered by departing Suns may not have happened here - butterfly effect, random chance, and our training staff make any "what ifs" a pointless excercise. Its impossible to correlate injuries suffered in different situations with what would have happened if they had stayed.

Considering what we just handed away in extentions and contracts in the last 2 weeks, we really could have afforded a tad bit more for Frye.

I'll stand by my take - we could've given Frye's touches beyond the 1st Q to Len last season and fared just as well. Maybe even better (talking mainly of len's development) And, had we handed Frye $8 million per, both Isaiah Thomas & Zoran Dragic would be somewhere else.

I'll believe my own eyes more than advanced stats anytime. What was it that Jim Garrison said about nuclear physics, a daisy, a cliff & an elephant?

[SwingMan]

I will always go with what I see on the court. Frye was streaky as hell and had very little to offer when his shot wasn't falling. Kieff and Tolliver should fill the role just fine.

.....and this, too.

[JCSunsfan]

That's BS. "That particular style does not win in the playoffs." Really? Really? During the 7sol era, the Suns saw their season end in the following rounds:

2004-05: Western Conference Finals
2005-06: Western Conference Finals
2006-07: Western Conference Semis (suspension-gate)
2007-08: 1st Round (Shaq)
2009-10: Western Conference Finals (Gentry)

So while running that offense, the Suns reached the Western Conference Finals three times. Do you not consider winning two rounds of the playoffs to be winning?

Further, San Antonio has flat out admitted to copying many of the Suns' sets from that offense. As their Big 3 (Duncan, Ginobili, Parker) grow older, the focus has shifted to more passing and corner threes than they have ever utilized before. The 7sol offense is extremely successful and does in fact win in the playoffs. The problem for the D'Antoni led team was the defensive end.

McD simply wanted to outscore teams while Jeff has a different philosophy. Last season, the Suns ranked 13th in defensive field goal percentage and 2nd in defensive three-point field goal percentage. As long as Jeff continues the defensive improvement, I don't think the offensive strategy will be an issue come playoff time.

The fool thing about DAntoni and that offense was the seven man rotations. It seems moronic not to run a deeper rotation. Teams will just beat up and your pg and slow you down. Horny seems to have improved on the idea with multiple pgs and more players in the rotation and, oh yeah, actual defense.

[The Bobster]

I will always go with what I see on the court. Frye was streaky as hell and had very little to offer when his shot wasn't falling. Kieff and Tolliver should fill the role just fine.

Put me in this camp too. Frye's defense was hardly a strength. He helped you when his 3-point shot was falling, but he wasn't really a dependable scorer otherwise.

[Superbone]

https://twitter.com/paulcoro/status/518133209427873792

Nice! Also Suns are featured on NBATV's Real Training Camp the day before.

[iLLmatic]

Count me on the "we don't fully realize what we let walk away" camp

I don't think anyone on this board is surprised by this.

[Mori Chu]

I am sad Frye is gone, but he isn't as important as that Grantland article implies and he isn't worth what Orlando gave him. He will break their hearts.

[SDC]

I am sad Frye is gone, but he isn't as important as that Grantland article implies and he isn't worth what Orlando gave him. He will break their hearts.

losing frye is a lose-lose to him and the suns, basketballwise. he is going to a terrible place where he is their best shooter, meaning he wont get open looks while gordon and the other rook will be dared to shoot.

financial-wise though, frye got paid.

[Wally_West]

Ouch

https://twitter.com/paulcoro/status/518105685544796160

[SwingMan]

Ouch

https://twitter.com/paulcoro/status/518105685544796160

I've done that before - like getting a really bad paper cut between your fingers. Not fun at all, but not serious at all, either.

[Ring_Wanted]

he best part about the Frye stuff is that no one can point to regular stats and say see that is why he is worth so much to this team. It is always these advanced stats where they take a player that is better than Frye and then go when that player plays with Frye he plays well.

Frye has been more than decent against some of the top big men in the L, like Aldridge, Love or Griffin.

Or like in the Lowe podcast they will talk about how he magically changes the defense just being on the court. The threat of his three point shot and that he can't be replaced by any other stretch four. Frye did okay from the three point line but I wouldn't say 37% is super amazing. I mean Tolliver shot 41% while shooting a little more than half the shots Frye did.

Reputation means everything. If your coach tells you not to leave open this guy because he nails threes, it doesn't really matter if his exact number is 37% or 45%. The defense has been altered, and the good part for the Suns is that we have the guy who worked perfectly with that in Dragic.

That's one weapon that we have removed, and it could have a big impact. It is much better trying to drive to the basket if their rim protector has been taken away from the basket.

I really want to see what is Goran's % in the paint and restricted area this season, against 2014.

[Ring_Wanted]

And about his 8M per, probably he is not worth it, but considering the madness going on this summer, if you see that money as MLE it is not such an overpay.

And honestly (and against my first instinct), after seeing the Morrii extensions I am starting to believe that I would have just given Frye that contract, because Goran and Green's cap hold won't allow us to have relevant cap space without moving someone next offseason, and you have to add whatever draft picks we end up using.

[SwingMan]

The Frye worship needs to stop.

He had one-dimension that worked a fraction of the time outside of the 1st Q while his "defense" consists of an endless string of touch and-1's because, at age 31, the man has yet to learn not only not to reach, but to foul hard when fouling in the paint.

Love the one-sided stats, too - how's about showing what the hell Frye gave up on the other end when he was in?

EDIT: I'm not singling you out, RW - at a second glance, I can see how it might look that way, but I'm not.

The above is an open letter to every Frye apologist here and elsewhere.

[JCSunsfan]

Frye was a solid defender in the post. I cannot understand why people watching the same games I did cannot see that.

I am not regretting that we did not sign him. It's time for Keef to step up. He will play the Frye role and I think he will do it effectively.

[Dan H]

I will always go with what I see on the court. Frye was streaky as hell and had very little to offer when his shot wasn't falling. Kieff and Tolliver should fill the role just fine.

Put me in this camp too. Frye's defense was hardly a strength. He helped you when his 3-point shot was falling, but he wasn't really a dependable scorer otherwise.

This! If the seasons had been 50 games long we would have won titles. Nash was always run down by the time we got to the playoffs because D'Antoni didn't trust anyone past 7 on the depth chart.