Woah. Gary Harris just got 4/84. Compare and contrast with Warren's 4/50.
Re: Around the League: Preseason 2017
Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 10:43 pm
by Superbone
carey wrote:Woah. Gary Harris just got 4/84. Compare and contrast with Warren's 4/50.
It's more.
Re: Around the League: Preseason 2017
Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 6:02 am
by carey
Superbone wrote:
carey wrote:Woah. Gary Harris just got 4/84. Compare and contrast with Warren's 4/50.
It's more.
Re: Around the League: Preseason 2017
Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 11:07 pm
by Split T
carey wrote:Woah. Gary Harris just got 4/84. Compare and contrast with Warren's 4/50.
He's better than Warren, but I don't think he's 8 million a year better
Re: Around the League: Preseason 2017
Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 11:53 pm
by Ring_Wanted
Split T wrote:
carey wrote:Woah. Gary Harris just got 4/84. Compare and contrast with Warren's 4/50.
He's better than Warren, but I don't think he's 8 million a year better
People value tremendously his efficiency and well rounded game. 40%+ 3pt, no apparent flaw and solid defense. There is a lot to like, and if he performs in '17-18 like he did last year, somebody would have offered the max. Given today's game evolution, I see why Harris is held in higher regard than Warren, who (disregarding health issues) still has no 3pt range and to non-Suns fans and still can't defend or rebound (improving on both accounts). 3pt is all the rage and unless Warren is used and impresses as a stretch PF, people will still believe he is just a vintage midrange scorer to bring off the bench.
Re: Around the League: Preseason 2017
Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 1:47 am
by carey
I've also read that Harris' deal is 4/74 but that with incentives he could reach 4/84. The incentives are apparently steep and will likely go under "unlikely" when talking about cap hits.
Re: Around the League: Preseason 2017
Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:58 am
by O_Gardino
Ring_Wanted wrote:
Split T wrote:
carey wrote:Woah. Gary Harris just got 4/84. Compare and contrast with Warren's 4/50.
He's better than Warren, but I don't think he's 8 million a year better
People value tremendously his efficiency and well rounded game. 40%+ 3pt, no apparent flaw and solid defense. There is a lot to like, and if he performs in '17-18 like he did last year, somebody would have offered the max. Given today's game evolution, I see why Harris is held in higher regard than Warren, who (disregarding health issues) still has no 3pt range and to non-Suns fans and still can't defend or rebound (improving on both accounts). 3pt is all the rage and unless Warren is used and impresses as a stretch PF, people will still believe he is just a vintage midrange scorer to bring off the bench.
I'll play Warren's advocate; I don't think Harris is better.
Harris is a little bit good at everything, but he hasn't been a guy you can build an offense around. He's not a go-to scoring option, he's not a passer who creates plays. His efficiency comes from letting the rest of his team generate the offense. He's a 3&D tweener guard who gets all his points on open 3s or open layups when Denver's ball movement creates a mismatch. He's good, but he's not big enough to be a great 2guard, and he's not quick enough or skilled enough to be a good PG. He's a role player. Besides which, Harris has missed about 60 games already in his career, and he profiles almost exactly like Jamal Murray who should take some of Harris' minutes this season. I just can't see 18-20 million a year being a good investment.
Warren, on the other hand, is a very efficient corer who can create his own buckets. He is especially effective at scoring on broken plays, and could be a very good #3 scoring option on a playoff team, regardless of whether he starts of comes off the bench. He's big for his natural position, and should slide well to PF where there aren't a lot of guys who can take advantage of him in today's NBA. 12 million a year is a good deal for a guy you know can score quickly and efficiently regardless of what the rest of the team is doing. The only real knock against him is his health, and Warren played 9 more games last season than Harris.
Re: Around the League: Preseason 2017
Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:35 am
by Mori Chu
Let's also remember that 4/84 is not all THAT much in today's CBA. It sounds scandalous to my ears, but the cap is much higher than it used to be.
Also, teams like Denver can't always just go out and get a Lebron or a Durant to come to their team. If they have a budding star and fan favorite, they have to do what they can to keep him. I think they did the right thing.
Re: Around the League: Preseason 2017
Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:16 am
by Ring_Wanted
O_Gardino wrote:I'll play Warren's advocate; I don't think Harris is better.
Harris is a little bit good at everything, but he hasn't been a guy you can build an offense around. He's not a go-to scoring option, he's not a passer who creates plays. His efficiency comes from letting the rest of his team generate the offense. He's a 3&D tweener guard who gets all his points on open 3s or open layups when Denver's ball movement creates a mismatch. He's good, but he's not big enough to be a great 2guard, and he's not quick enough or skilled enough to be a good PG. He's a role player. Besides which, Harris has missed about 60 games already in his career, and he profiles almost exactly like Jamal Murray who should take some of Harris' minutes this season. I just can't see 18-20 million a year being a good investment.
Warren, on the other hand, is a very efficient corer who can create his own buckets. He is especially effective at scoring on broken plays, and could be a very good #3 scoring option on a playoff team, regardless of whether he starts of comes off the bench. He's big for his natural position, and should slide well to PF where there aren't a lot of guys who can take advantage of him in today's NBA. 12 million a year is a good deal for a guy you know can score quickly and efficiently regardless of what the rest of the team is doing. The only real knock against him is his health, and Warren played 9 more games last season than Harris.
All solid points. If you asked me what player would I rather have in a vacuum, Harris would have a pretty strong case, because even if just a role player, he fits today's game better than Warren. Now, if you ask me Harris 4/84 vs Warren 4/50, I take Warren (although I acknowledge that Harris could trascend his 3D status and make his contract not just ok, but great).
Re: Around the League: Preseason 2017
Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:21 am
by Split T
Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:Let's also remember that 4/84 is not all THAT much in today's CBA. It sounds scandalous to my ears, but the cap is much higher than it used to be.
Also, teams like Denver can't always just go out and get a Lebron or a Durant to come to their team. If they have a budding star and fan favorite, they have to do what they can to keep him. I think they did the right thing.
We say that about every contract, it's true about some, but not Harris. It's pretty close to the max he can get. I actually like Harris, I wanted to trade Bledsoe for him, and I agree that Denver needed to keep him. Just don't think he's on any kind of bargain contract. 21 million a year for a 3rd/4th fiddle is a lot.
Re: Around the League: Preseason 2017
Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:53 am
by ShelC
Great posts Ring and O. I'd definitely take Warren and his contract over Harris and his. Harris is a fine player and 74 is the probably market value for a guy like him. I think he's a borderline starter but also someone the Nuggets felt they needed to re-sign and keep around. Another player/contract to compare him to would be Tim Hardaway Jr and his deal. He got 4 years, 71mil albeit the Knicks probably had to overbid as he was an RFA.
Re: Around the League: Preseason 2017
Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 1:43 pm
by bajanguy008
I have refused to give much thought to this last couple seasons although it keeps coming up in discussions simply because I don't think it will actually happen. Well here's some of the Logistics stuff , Pros and Cons. Maybe it's the pessimist in me lol but I heard more reasons in that segment why it probably isn't happening
