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Re: Suns Coach 2018-19
Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:27 am
by LazarusLong
"The problem with Chandler is that Williams is injured."
The problem with Chandler is that he starts and plays as much as he wants, eating into Len's minutes.
The FO does this because of Chandler's contract, not because of merit.
Chandler was once a serviceable center, but he's past it.
Len, even with his faults, is now a better all around pivot.
Re: Suns Coach 2018-19
Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:37 am
by O_Gardino
Indy wrote:O_Gardino wrote:Having old guys on the roster isn't a problem. The Suns have one of the youngest rosters in history, so I think the complaints that 2 of the guys are vets are... Well, I just don't respect that complaint.
The problem with Chandler is that Williams is injured. The problem with Dudley is that Chriss and Bender haven't developed very quickly, and enough of our guards are injured that we can't go small very often.
We are going to have 17 guys on our roster every season. Even in your best years, 7 or 8 of them will have no NBA future. They'll either be old guys without much left to offer, or young guys who never get a chance to show their skills, or journeymen who we already know aren't ever going to be good. There will always be end-of-the-bench guys.
The problem on the Suns is that we have to play ours.
I think the point is, if you are going to have 5-6 guys at the end of the bench, why are you not using that on guys that *might* have a future, as opposed to ones where they are well passed their playing days? Besides getting the upside of taking a chance on something that could pan out, you don't pay end of the bench guys $40 million a year. That is just stupid.
The Suns have close to the lowest payroll allowed in the NBA, and have given way too may minutes to young guys who "might" have a future in the NBA. Large contracts and lack of young players with questionable upside are absolutely not problems that the Suns have.
Re: Suns Coach 2018-19
Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:45 am
by O_Gardino
LazarusLong wrote:"The problem with Chandler is that Williams is injured."
The problem with Chandler is that he starts and plays as much as he wants, eating into Len's minutes.
The FO does this because of Chandler's contract, not because of merit.
Chandler was once a serviceable center, but he's past it.
Len, even with his faults, is now a better all around pivot.
I don't buy it.
Len isn't good. He's OK, but he isn't good. If he played more, folks here would be roasting him instead of Chandler.
If Williams was here, Chandler would be playing a lot less, and Len would look bad in comparison to Williams.
Re: Suns Coach 2018-19
Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:48 am
by The Bobster
The problem is that the Suns highest paid players are Greg Monroe (bought out), Brandon Knight (injured), Tyson Chandler and Jared Dudley.
If they were paying that money to good veteran players they would unquestionably be a better team. But those four players (and their limited contributions) made $54 million this year combined.
Re: Suns Coach 2018-19
Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:57 am
by O_Gardino
The problem is that the Suns are bad.
If you are committed to having a young, bad team, then the 54 million paid to a few vets bad vets doesn't matter. You're going to pay that money to someone, it's the NBA salary law.
Again, of all the Suns problems this season, it's not that we are paying too much money or employing too many old guys.
Re: Suns Coach 2018-19
Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:08 am
by The Bobster
There are many, many problems with this team.
And I think we all agree it starts at the top.
Re: Suns Coach 2018-19
Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:17 am
by Indy
O_Gardino wrote:LazarusLong wrote:"The problem with Chandler is that Williams is injured."
The problem with Chandler is that he starts and plays as much as he wants, eating into Len's minutes.
The FO does this because of Chandler's contract, not because of merit.
Chandler was once a serviceable center, but he's past it.
Len, even with his faults, is now a better all around pivot.
I don't buy it.
Len isn't good. He's OK, but he isn't good. If he played more, folks here would be roasting him instead of Chandler.
If Williams was here, Chandler would be playing a lot less, and Len would look bad in comparison to Williams.
Code: Select all
Rk Player Season Age G MP PER TS% 3PAr FTr ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% OWS DWS WS WS/48 OBPM DBPM BPM VORP
1 Tyson Chandler 2017-18 35 42 1066 14.1 .639 .000 .514 12.7 28.2 20.3 6.5 0.6 1.9 20.6 10.7 1.6 0.7 2.4 .107 -1.4 0.9 -0.5 0.4
2 Alex Len 2017-18 24 49 1002 19.4 .619 .000 .638 13.2 27.7 20.3 9.1 0.9 3.5 15.0 16.7 2.4 0.9 3.3 .156 -0.3 1.2 0.9 0.7
Provided by
Basketball-Reference.com:
View Original Table
Generated 2/15/2018.
Re: Suns Coach 2018-19
Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:44 am
by O_Gardino
The Bobster wrote:There are many, many problems with this team.
And I think we all agree it starts at the top.
Amen.
Re: Suns Coach 2018-19
Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:46 am
by O_Gardino
Indy wrote:O_Gardino wrote:LazarusLong wrote:"The problem with Chandler is that Williams is injured."
The problem with Chandler is that he starts and plays as much as he wants, eating into Len's minutes.
The FO does this because of Chandler's contract, not because of merit.
Chandler was once a serviceable center, but he's past it.
Len, even with his faults, is now a better all around pivot.
I don't buy it.
Len isn't good. He's OK, but he isn't good. If he played more, folks here would be roasting him instead of Chandler.
If Williams was here, Chandler would be playing a lot less, and Len would look bad in comparison to Williams.
Code: Select all
Rk Player Season Age G MP PER TS% 3PAr FTr ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% OWS DWS WS WS/48 OBPM DBPM BPM VORP
1 Tyson Chandler 2017-18 35 42 1066 14.1 .639 .000 .514 12.7 28.2 20.3 6.5 0.6 1.9 20.6 10.7 1.6 0.7 2.4 .107 -1.4 0.9 -0.5 0.4
2 Alex Len 2017-18 24 49 1002 19.4 .619 .000 .638 13.2 27.7 20.3 9.1 0.9 3.5 15.0 16.7 2.4 0.9 3.3 .156 -0.3 1.2 0.9 0.7
Provided by
Basketball-Reference.com:
View Original Table
Generated 2/15/2018.
I get it that Len is having his best year. I just think it's diminishing returns to play him more minutes.
Re: Suns Coach 2018-19
Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:31 am
by Mori Chu
Len is having a much better season than Chandler. Len isn't getting minutes because we know he's leaving and the well is poisoned. If we had signed Len to a contract, he'd likely be getting more consistent minutes and putting up better numbers.
Re: Suns Coach 2018-19
Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:04 am
by Superbone
I finally voted for "Tried and true" and now see that it is by far the most popular choice.
Re: Suns Coach 2018-19
Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:53 pm
by 1tinsoldier
Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:Len is having a much better season than Chandler. Len isn't getting minutes because we know he's leaving and the well is poisoned. If we had signed Len to a contract, he'd likely be getting more consistent minutes and putting up better numbers.
that's how i see it. if he started all year, he'd be a better than average center, and he will be for another team
it seems he was starting to shine earlier this season, then became out of sync again with the limited minutes
like a lot of other things in recent years, this situation reflects badly on management
even though he'll be a free agent, could they still have offered him an attractive contract anytime this year?
Re: Suns Coach 2018-19
Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:56 pm
by Split T
I just don't see it with Len, he's a good defensive anchor/rebounder but he's not elite and that's what you need to be if you're a non shooter and completely dependent on others offensively. He's like the 60% version of Gobert.
Re: Suns Coach 2018-19
Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:09 pm
by specialsauce
Split T wrote:I just don't see it with Len, he's a good defensive anchor/rebounder but he's not elite and that's what you need to be if you're a non shooter and completely dependent on others offensively. He's like the 60% version of Gobert.
Agreed. I can't wait for him to be gone so the discussion about "if he only got more PT" can come to an end. He's been "snubbed" by 3 coaches.
Re: Suns Coach 2018-19
Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:13 pm
by Indy
specialsauce wrote:Split T wrote:I just don't see it with Len, he's a good defensive anchor/rebounder but he's not elite and that's what you need to be if you're a non shooter and completely dependent on others offensively. He's like the 60% version of Gobert.
Agreed. I can't wait for him to be gone so the discussion about "if he only got more PT" can come to an end. He's been "snubbed" by 3 coaches.
He has played just as many minutes as Tyson this year. So I don't think he is getting snubbed. And I don't think his play in previous years was much better (if at all) than the other players we had in front of him. I do think our player development coaches have not handled him well. I will be very surprised if he isn't signed to a deal and playing as a starting 5 or primary back up 5 next year.
But honestly, I like Williams more. So as long as he is back and healthy, it won't matter. Especially if we can get a great big man in the draft.
Re: Suns Coach 2018-19
Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:18 pm
by specialsauce
Speaking of Williams, did he get a prosthetic leg? What the hell is taking so long with his recovery?
Re: Suns Coach 2018-19
Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:27 pm
by Indy
specialsauce wrote:Speaking of Williams, did he get a prosthetic leg? What the hell is taking so long with his recovery?
It wasn't a scope. It was a full blown meniscus repair. So once it is all healed, then he will have to do all the work to get back into playing shape. I didn't expect him back until march or so. I haven't heard an update lately.
Re: Suns Coach 2018-19
Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:31 pm
by specialsauce
DIdn't realize his injury was only in September. Feels like he's been out a lot longer.
Re: Suns Coach 2018-19
Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:35 pm
by Indy
specialsauce wrote:DIdn't realize his injury was only in September. Feels like he's been out a lot longer.
THis season feels like 3.
Re: Suns Coach 2018-19
Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:35 pm
by Split T
Ya Williams got hurt during training camp? Or maybe right before? They said 4-6 months and leaned more towards 6.